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Topic ClosedWho was in charge of the Armenian Genocide?

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Iranian41ife View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who was in charge of the Armenian Genocide?
    Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:08
^^ how do you know that they arent ottoman soldiers? please explain...
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Mortaza View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:31

prsn how do you know that they arent american soldiers?

same way.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:32
Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by o_irengun

Originally posted by Maziar

Can anyone tell me what was the reason for Armenian geno..... sorry, the crime on Armenians?

 Russia



Apparently, while the region later organized as Armenia was partly a Russian conquest, when the revolution happened in Russia, Ottomans send their troops southwards to fence off the British, while Russian army deployed there slowly disintegrated.

Can you explain me why a nation like Russia that was inmersed in a civil war could have influenced the events of Armenia?

  Who  has influenced  or started Armenian Rebellion  on OTTOMAN EMPIRE ?  The  Russians  have  gave  the  start.

 For ottoman  Empire  it was  a Armenian  Rebellion  in  East Anatolia.This rebellion  was   good  for russian benefits and they  have  support and  started  this rebellion.

 Sorry  my  english is  not good  enough  to  explain  all  theories  and  all  facts  about  such  a  discussion.   

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:33
As I said before hundreds of times, pictures are totally irrelevant and meaningless.

How do we know whether they were Armenians or Turks?

How do we know whether they were killed or died becaused of a disase?

I think this one is fake. Skulls are clearly visible. Wouldn't that take years?

Originally posted by Maju




People are so convinced that we are brain-washed by our government, they fail to see the one of the greatest propagandas in the history.



Edited by barish
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:36

Originally posted by Maju

I must say I am again shocked, astonished, ashamed and angry at the derivation of the discussion on what happened exactly during the Armenian Genocide to a massive barrickade to defend the honor of Turkey.

Please stop being so foolish: your nation like all others have commited crimes. And the only way to clarify which part belongs to whom is by dissapassionate and careful discussion.

In this regard I susggest all reasonable forumers to ignore the nationalist Turkish discourse and keep this topic as a rational discussion among people interested in knowing about the details and facts of the genocide.

It is a shame for this forum that when we try to discuss serious matters we are sabotaged by nationalist crap.
  Dont care who you are but watch youre words.

aaaa yetti ama artik, bilende konusuyo bilmiyende! Bu nasil idarecilik ya, biktim artik herzaman bu ermeni meselesiyle konu acilsa hep ayni kisiler sahneye cikip moralimi bozuyo ya. Savunabilcegi TEZI yok, baskasinin sikiyle gerdege girmeye calisiyolar ya. Karsi taraf konusunca "Nationalistic crap, fascists" yok ebenin ami o . Bunlar bizleri ne konusturmak istiyo nede onlarin tezlerini crttrmek istiyo, cevir cevir salla anam aynisini...

Artik bu isin bokunu cikariyosunuz!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:38
Originally posted by Mortaza

prsn how do you know that they arent american soldiers?

same way.

 

Ask it to that "proffessional spammer" in this forum who's thinks he a whise guy after became a mod. Let him give that answer, if he can...

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:50
Originally posted by Maju

I must say I am again shocked, astonished, ashamed and angry at the derivation of the discussion on what happened exactly during the Armenian Genocide to a massive barrickade to defend the honor of Turkey.

Please stop being so foolish: your nation like all others have commited crimes. And the only way to clarify which part belongs to whom is by dissapassionate and careful discussion.

In this regard I susggest all reasonable forumers to ignore the nationalist Turkish discourse and keep this topic as a rational discussion among people interested in knowing about the details and facts of the genocide.

It is a shame for this forum that when we try to discuss serious matters we are sabotaged by nationalist crap.


Excuse me, but nobody tells me how I should think.

You better watch your words. You can't decide what happened in the history by yourself.

We are all disscussing here and I think we are all free to have different opinions.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:52
Originally posted by DayI


I didn't notice it. Great work!   

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:54

Im waiting for "his" reply to my post with that picture.

I will make it easy for him;

-where they german soldiers? eurr no they where mostly on the southside and the westside of the country

-are they french soldiers? maybe

-are they russian soldiers? probably...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:57
Or is that picture fake too?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 12:59

Look a ww1 russian soldier under:

Russian officer;

I can be wrong but i think ive seen that hat before...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 13:08
I really wonder how some people will react to this.
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erci View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 13:13
funny thing with the pictures is that many of them are prooved to be fake not by Turks but by experts.I didn't save the pictures and now I can't find them because clerly they stopped using them as propaganda and created new ones. lately I saw a picture of Turkish soldiers (republic of Turkey's) holding two People's (kurdish) heads chopped off and posing them to the camera.funny thing was soldiers had beard and mustache can you believe this? 

Edited by erci
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 13:20

Yes, fool Armenians attacked Ottoman towns while we are in a war, fool Ottoman government decided to deport them, fool Kurds attacked the deporting Armenians(to take revenge), and the fool world saying it was a genocide.

Now we have examples from the "world" here.

Fact 3: The "Special Organization" carried the genocide/ethnic cleansing/massacre in the following way:
a) deportations in murderous conditions
b) concentration camps that have been reported to be death camps as well
c) on the ground killings
 

a)I/we agree this, yes, deportation conditions were terrible.
b-c)Can you tell what happened there, and especially "where were the concentration camps"?


The Ottoman Governement and army was really busy, they didn't established any camps.We are in a World War!And we don't have a time/place/money to build camps like Germany did.There aren't any ruins of any concentration camps in Turkey.

It is only a nonsense to create unreal camps.

It is disputed the ammount of Armenians living in NE Turkey, most sources claim that abot 2 million, while Turk sources (and only these) claim that they were much less. In the same regard, the ammount of Armenian victims is disputed, being the highest claimed figure of about 1.5 million deaths.

Dear Maju you seem doesn't know the history but talking so much.

The ground of Eastern Anatolia was dug lots of times but there weren't 1.5 million Armenians under it.We always ask to the world "if there were so much killings,where are the deaths?"

But there are lots of collective graves where the Turks massacred cruelly by Armenian Tashnak and Hincak.Those deaths are Turks, it was corrected genetically.

When we ask for witnesses Armenians say "oh,Turks killed so much that there aren't any witnesses lived" and lots of ridiculous nonsenses like these.

I must say I am again shocked, astonished, ashamed and angry at the derivation of the discussion on what happened exactly during the Armenian Genocide to a massive barrickade to defend the honor of Turkey.

Please stop being so foolish: your nation like all others have commited crimes. And the only way to clarify which part belongs to whom is by dissapassionate and careful discussion.

In this regard I susggest all reasonable forumers to ignore the nationalist Turkish discourse and keep this topic as a rational discussion among people interested in knowing about the details and facts of the genocide.

It is a shame for this forum that when we try to discuss serious matters we are sabotaged by nationalist crap.

How a coincidence i think that it is a shame that our theories are sabotaged by crusader crap.


 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 13:33

OK, people are starting to get their shorts in a knot here.

I ask everyone to stay calm and focused on the topic.  Let's not start throwing "crap," either nationalist or crusader.

Thanks all.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 13:33
Tell me how did Armenian living in Cilicia and in the middle of Anatolia  constitute a threat to the Ottoman Empire. While the men were in the army, serving as laborers how were the women and children going to  rebel? were they all spies? And why has been your self proclaimed leader found quoting to LA examiner in 1926

Ataturk:
    These left-overs from the former Young Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse, from their homes and massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule.

And these

Enver Pasha: The Ottoman Empire should be cleaned up of the Armenians and the Lebanese. We have destroyed the former by the sword, we shall destroy the latter through starvation. (May, 1916)

In reply to US Ambassador Morgenthau who was deploring the massacres against Armenians and attributing them to irresponsible subalterns and underlings in the distant provinces, Enver's reply was...

You are greatly mistaken. We have this country absolutely under our control. I have no desire to shift the blame onto our underlings and I am entirely willing to accept the responsibility myself for everything that has taken place.
Talaat Pasha: Turkey is taking advantage of the war in order to thoroughly liquidate (grundlich aufzaumen) its internal foes, i.e., the indigenous Christians, without being thereby disturbed by foreign intervention. (In a conversation with Dr. Mordtmann of the German Embassy in June 1915)

After the German Ambassador persistently brought up the Armenian question in 1918, Talat said "with a smile"...

What on earth do you want? The question is settled. There are no more Armenians.
Prince Abdul Hamid: (Son of the BLoody Sultan)
I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres which had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: 'It is decided. It is the program.'

I dont even want to get started on non-Turkish people


But I am sure you think all of these are made up by fanatic Armenians, right?

First you say: "They killed us, we never killed them"

Then: "ok we both died, in same numbers"

Then: "ok, "only" 200,000 Armenians died because of famine and disease, we never intended to harm them"

Then: "ok, they did die of war but our government was never behind it, people die during war"

Now: "ok, our government was behind it, but we just wanted to deport them so they would not get in the way of "harm""

Soon: "The Turkish Government hereby apologizes for the the Genocide of 1.5 millions of Armenians during WWI in the hands of the Young Turk Government" hopefully...





Edited by mamikon
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 13:36
I had sworn never, ever to intervene again in a discussion about the question, if indeed the deliberate murder of a large number of Armenian people did take place in Turkey during WW1.
So, I'm not discussing this here, especially as I'm not a professional Armenian genocide partisan of either side, unlike others on AE.
I just want to say that I find it tragic and disappointing that an entire nation and most of its people, with some notable exceptions, will not bring it upon them to discuss to a rather unpleasant episode in their history, never mind to own up to it.
As a German I can recommend the process of coming to terms with one's history, sometimes a difficult and painful undertaking, but one that once it finished strengthens the country's civil society. It took the Germans 25 years and caused a deep conflict between generations, but it the end we came out the better for it. Maybe it's time to do the same.
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 13:37
what's the population of Armenia today? I assume it is 3 million.what's the diaspora Armenians population in other countries? I assume it is another  million 3 million?

what was the population of Armenians in 1915?    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 13:46
I think those sentences belong to different people. Not one person as in different time periods.

Even if so called Armenian genocide is proved to be true, how can the Turkish Republic, which one was founded in 1923, be responsible for an event which occured in 1915?

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