Kashmir

TeldeIndus have you seen 'Dumb and Dumber'.A real nice comedy.Do you like comedies TeldeIndus.I love them.

Population of India is around 1.0 Billion I guess.

Who are the Indian people.My states population is around 8 million.By your logic my province should join China{as it borders Tibet}.....but wait I got brains man....Chinese population is even more than that of India....so i guess we should join Nepal {since my province also borders Nepal} ...Nepalese population is many times less than that of China or India...and our voice would be heard louder and clearer in Nepal.So Nepalese here we come.

And dear Nepalese brothers and sisters we want our OWN President and Prime Minister who will only look after our interests.

and what's your right to decide what happens to the china's portion of the area based upon? morality?

there's no way that china will let go of it no matter what happens to the situation, and there's chance for you to stand up against china to gain control of the area.

That land is Indian.N I agree with you 'there's chance for us to stand up against China to gain control of the area'.

'DUMB,DUMBER and the DUMBEREST'

Coming soon to a theatre near you.

i mean there's no chance.

it was a typo.

are u a korean or a pakistani/indian?

You've missed my point. There's two things your missing in fact. First of all, the Kashmiris on the Indian side did not vote to join India - it was taken by force. Second of all, the Pakistani Kashmiris have more democracy than the Indian Kashmiris, since they have their own president.

I think you're wrong. China's part of Kashmir is not important to China now. It did have strategic value when it obtained it. But now China can just nuke everyone or invade them if it liked. There's not much India can do about it. I dont see a problem if China keeps Ladakh anyway.

but it wouldn't hurt for china to keep a piece of land, too.

why give it back if u can keep it...

Yes my friend I agree but the question is will you offer a refrendum to Balochistan now under the prevailing circumstances...

Shiekh Mujhbir Rahman had a support of majority of members in Pak assembly and when it seemed that he will become Paks Prime minister...Military rule was imosed....coz the punjabis/sindhis couldn't see a bengali becoming a prime minister...

also activities like imposition of Urdu on Bengali populace made them ove away from Pak mainland...

You talked about voting for ML during 1946. But that was under the effect of horrible muslim-hindu-sikh riots that ensued...

would Pak have offered a refrendum in Eask pak in 1969... I think not...

Governments will offer referendum under two scenarios:

1. When they know they will win it

2. When they know that there is no other option of winning war.

Second question regarding the muslim aspect of Pakistan. The formation of Pakistan based on religion has failed on two counts:

1. Partition left majority of muslims back in India (120 million)

2. East Pak gained independence, showwing language is more important than religion

3. And please dont talk about love for muslims/ kashmiris...

Interested people should read about atrocities on Bengali muslims of bangladesh by Pak soldiers...you will be surprised by the extent to which muslims perpetrate violence against thier own "brothers" and "sisters"

I am not saying that Kashmiris are happy at J & K and mistakes have been made by the Army which are condemnable...(I do not believe in "my nation right or wong")

But we are moving in a right direction of peace and tranquility in Kashmir by following means:

1. strengthening democracy there (no more sham elections)

2.more autonomy

3. reduction of human abuses

4. more investments/jobs for kashmiris

The total GNP of the planet + ownership of the United States of America.

There is no legal justfication for giving them a referendum, unlike Kashmir. I wouldnt mind giving Balochistan a referendum, the uprising is very small, and the majority of Balochis arent a part of it.

No . Did you know that Pakistan had TWO East Pakistani presidents and prime ministers before 1971? One was Iskander Mirza. The other was Khawaja Nazimuddin - born in Dhaka, president of Pakistan right from 1948 - 1953! (Pakistan's beginning). (Bengali Prime ministers of Pakistan have included Bogra and some others). In fact the pair of them dominated government together in Pakistan in the late fifties. A Bengali becoming president or prime minister was not a problem as history has proved.

I think you're wrong. Bengali was made the official language of East Pakistan in 1952 along with Urdu. The date was 21st Feb, 1952, 5 years after Pakistan's formation.

You have your timeline confused. The Muslim League won the elections on around January 11th, 1946. The  Direct Action Day that were perhaps a trigger for the rioting was in August of the same year - The rioting did not occur till December, 1946 and were in fact, in no way connected with the timing of the elections.

In 1970 free and fair elections were held, which in essence was a referendum because the pro independence party Awami League was allowed to run - and won. One could draw on this for Indian occupied Kashmir - that is, let a pro independence party in Indian occupied Kashmir run, and I bet they will win the elections in the state of Jammu and Kashmir. With East Pakistan however the parrallel stops there - East Pakistan was given their "referendum" in 1946, Kashmir was not.

1 reason

Another reason, but there's more.

Partition was never meant to accomodate all the Muslims into a state of Pakistan.

This actually shows the success of two nation theory and the formation of Pakistan. WIthout the formation of Pakistan, Bangladesh would not have got its independence - language was not so important either. The Bengalis were geographically seperated by too far a distance and there was a Nationist campaign in East Pakistan at the time blaming all the woes of East Pakistan on the West, for example it was suggested by the Awami League that East Pakistan would be the richest country in the world(!), if it was not for West Pakistan taking all the money. This turned out to be very false, as history has also shown.

Dont follow you.

Typical. Whenever Kashmir comes up, Indians resort to trying to discuss Bangladesh. The stories you refer to are just propaganda, everyone who has basic literacy knows it, it doesnt really wash outside of the India. It's like that of the German soldiers eating babies during World War II. Even the Bengali ambassador admits it's all hogwash.

"During the seminar, Bangladeshi scholars acknowledged that their official figure of more than 3 million killed during and after the military action was not authentic.

They said that the original figure was close to 300,000, which was wrongly translated from Bengali into English as three million.

Shamsher M. Chowdhury, the Bangladesh ambassador in Washington who was commissioned in the Pakistan Army in 1969 but had joined his country�s war of liberation in 1971, acknowledged that Bangladesh alone cannot correct this mistake. Instead, he suggested that Pakistan and Bangladesh form a joint commission to investigate the 1971 disaster and prepare a report.

Almost all scholars agreed that the real figure was somewhere between 26,000, as reported by the Hamoodur Rahman Commission, and not three million, the official figure put forward by Bangladesh and India."

http://www.dawn.com/2005/07/07/nat3.htm 

Wrongly translated!! For a copy of Bose's report on the 1971 War.

http://www.epw.org.in/showArticles.php?root=2005&leaf=10 &filename=9223&filetype=html  

The Bose paper was presented at the following conference in the US attended by Indians, Bengalis, Americans and others.

"Session 3:
South Asia in Crisis during the Nixon Administration

Loy Henderson Auditorium

Chair: Dr. Peter A. Kraemer, Office of the Historian, U.S. Department of State

Panelists:

�We do not see any sign or hope:� U.S.-Bangladesh Contacts in 1971
Dr. Ali Riaz, Illinois State University

The 1971 South Asian Crisis: U.S. Policy Revisited
Dr. Imtiaz Ahmed, University of Dhaka

Anatomy of Violence: An Analysis of Acts of Terror in East Pakistan in 1971
Dr. Sarmila Bose, George Washington University

Nixon's White House and Pakistan: The Tilt that Failed
F.S. Aijazuddin, OBE

Comment: Dr. Sumit Ganguly"

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/46059.htm

Kashmir had semi autonomy before 1952 before it became incorporated as just another state in India. If anything, there's been a reduction in autonomy. Human rights abuses by Indian soldiers in Kashmir have not stopped. They are all well documented by Amnesty.

"However, the SOG continued to operate as a cohesive unit and despite disciplinary action being taken against a few of its members, there continued to be regular reports of human rights violations being committed by the SOG. In May, the NHRC asked the Chief Secretary of Jammu and Kashmir for specific information on the systems used by the state authorities to record and investigate allegations of �disappearances� and on measures taken to prevent further �disappearances�. A substantive response to the Commission�s request remained outstanding at the end of 2003.

Civilians continued to be targeted for gross human rights violations in Jammu and Kashmir and scores of allegations of human rights violations were made against the security forces, paramilitaries and �renegades� (former members of armed opposition groups working with the security forces).

http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/ind-summary-eng 

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/14283.shtml 

The Armed Forces Special Powers Act enables the Indian troops to get away with anything they like, and they do in Kashmir.

"The AFSPA empowers security forces to arrest and enter property without warrant and gives the security forces power to shoot to kill in circumstances where members of the security forces are not at imminent risk."

http://weArmed Forces Special Powers Act AFSPAb.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA200252005?open&of =ENG-IND

http://www.amnestyusa.org/women/document.do?id=130CC715AEA97 B67802569A500714D22 

Even though the infiltration is coming in from Burma and Bangladesh, they're still Pakistan-backed   - Clarification : Training camps and infiltrators from Bangladesh and Burma - Pakistan backing suspected by India

Kashmir infiltration close to zero: Army Indo-Asian News Service Jammu, January 25, 2006

<> var href= window.location.href; href = href.substring(7); var idx = href.indexOf("/"); var relpath = href.substring(idx); document.write("" + " "); Advertisement 0.gif" width=1> var zflag_nid="294"; var zflag_cid="1"; var zflag_sid="0"; var zflag_width="180"; var zflag_height="150"; var zflag_sz="13"; < marginWidth=0 marginHeight=0 src="http://c2.zedo.com/jsc/c2/ff2.?n=294;c=1;d=13;w=180;h=1 50" Border=0 width=180 scrolling=no height=150 allowTransparency ="" src="http://c2.zedo.com/jsc/c2/ff2.js"> A senior Army officer said on Wednesday that infiltration levels in Jammu and Kashmir have been brought down and are close to zero, though not exactly zero. He said that the threat has now spread elsewhere as Pakistani-backed intruders are now also coming in via Bangladesh and Myanmar. Due to heightened vigil along the 742 kilometre-long Line of Control that divides Kashmir between India and Pakistan, 400 kilometre of which has been fenced, infiltration has been checked to a great extent, but it is not over, said Lt Gen Deepak Kapur, head of the Army's Northern Command responsible for guarding Kashmir. "There is a 24-hour vigil being maintained on the LoC and the international border. This has blunted the edge of the infiltration from across," Kapur maintained. At the same time, the focus has shifted to Bangladesh and Myanmar, from where infiltrators are coming in via West Bengal and the northeastern states, he added. The Centre has already voiced its concern to Dhaka over the presence of the militant training camps in Bangladesh and has asked them to be dismantled.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1607916,00080001.htm