QuoteReplyTopic: Kashmir Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 10:33
Originally posted by TeldeInduz
Originally posted by Digvijay
Some
people like you who are politically motivated just never learn. Kashmir
is mentioned in Puranas. Does your shimeer nonsense finds mention in
any text of anitquity? No.
Think about it. Do you
think that a Purana was written and then they named all the places like
Kashmir, or do you think that they named the places first and then
wrote the Purana? Bear in mind that a Purana means "ancient history",
so all the texts will be documenting supposed historical cosmogonic
events from the Hindu viewpoint.
No. Places existed before and then
they were named in Purana. So Kashmir based on the name of Sage
Kashyapa existed before Purana came into being. Since Purana just
recorded the name as it existed when they written we know the anitquity
of the name Kashmir and the fact that it is named after Hindu's.
500,000
Kashmir pandits have had to relocate out of Kashmir due to ethnic
cleansing by Paki sponsored terrorists. Every CM, wether is Mufti or
Ghulam come up with grand plans to have them come back.
Sure, Pandits have relocated from Kashmir Valley to
Jammu. Most of the Kashmir Valley Muslims are killed by the Indian
Army, which has resulted in the Muslim percentage in Kashmir slipping
by a couple of percent, and the Hindu percentage increasing by a
percent since partition.
Utter nonsense. Kashmiri muslims were
terrorists and were attacking Hindus or the security forces. And
I will tell you one more thing: If Whites in America/England or any
other western country had been killed and raped and forced to abandon
there million dollar properties to become refugees in the own country
by any muslims these governments would have eradicated the
perpetrators. Sadly in India we tolerate these things in the name
of secularism.
Oh really. And where do you think Pakistan trains all these terrorists?
From what I know the terrorists are coming up
through Jammu and occupying Srinagar. That's why you get the mass
protests when their political figures visit.
You obviously know nothing.
Hizbul Mujahideen is the largest insurgent faction,
and this has already been described as composed of Kashmiris only -
nothing to do with Pakistan. Plenty of Pakistani groups have
been banned from having their base in Pakistan. Hizbul Mujahideen
are a legitimate Kashmiri group though, as acknowledged by everyone.
Nonsense.
Pakistanis love to lie. Let us expose your lies:
Since you cannot read small letters: EACH SOURCE IS PROVIDED
IN MY POST AND THE EXACT QUOTE ATTRIBUTED TO THE AUTHOR.
Bottomline Pakistani armiy's ass was kicked by the Indian army in 1948
and it is just sheer ineptitude of our leaders that we are in this mess.
A bit like the Colonel Turkey capture by India in Kashmir in an ambush, I suppose.. later retracted it seems..
Soldiers of Pakistani army on leave, aided by tribesmen of NWFP, led by Pakistani army officers attacked Kashmir on 22 October 1947, along the Jhelum valley road.
Pakistan Army had nothing to do with the
tribals joining forces with the Pooch uprising. This has
been stated by Sir George Cunningham, the governor of the NWFP at the
time.
The British paid attention to the reports of Sir George Cunningham, the Governor of North Western Frontier province, that tribesmen
entering the state of Jammu and Kashmir were acting on their own
and that the government of Pakistan was unable to prevent their
invasion.This, along with the British belief that the atrocities
committed by the Hindu Maharaja were the root cause of the Kashmir
conflict, generated the Pro-Pakistani stance of the British delegation
in the United Nations.
On 22 October, thousands of Pathan tribesmen from Pakistan, recruited by the Poonch rebels, invade Kashmir along with the Poonch rebels, allegedly incensed by the atrocities against fellow Muslims in Poonch and Jammu. http://www.indiatogether.org/peace/kashmir/intro.htm
According
to the findings of Alastair Lamb it seems that a few resistance
commanders in Poonch had �toyed� with the idea of getting assistance
from Pathan tribes in the North-West Frontier. Pathans had a reputation
for being vicious fighters but not very disciplined, even in their home
region. Kashmiri rebels in Pooch, unlike the Pakistani authorities, had
not anticipated the level of fierce brutality the Pathan tribes would
employ. Lamb points out that as a result of the prospects of Pathan
intervention: �More experienced Pakistani soldiers and politicians who
were aware of what was brewing were seriously alarmed.�[12]
Unfortunately, however, once contacted for assistance, it was too late
to turn them back. Kolodner notes that: �the Pathans had mobilized for
battle and little could stop them from joining it.�[13]
Thus, �Contrary to the claims of some pro-Indian writers, it seems
unlikely that Pakistan was involved in sending the Pathans to Kashmir
in order to capture the territory without using the Pakistani army.�[14]
The chief of operations was Major-General Akbar Khan of the Pakistan army using the pseudonym General Tariq. [1].
There objective was to celebrate Id on October 26 at Srinagar, with
Jinnah riding in triumph into the capital of Kashmir. The undefended
city of Domel was the first to fall. Brigadier Rajendra Singh, Chief of
Staff of Kashmir State, organized a force of 150 men at Garhi and
checked the advance of Pakistani army. By 26 October Pakistani army had
only managed to reach Baramulla instead of Srinagar. Pakistani troops
committed horrendous crimes against Hindus and Europeans living in the
valley. Robert Trumbull, of New York Times sent this dispatch, published on 10 November:
The city had been stripped of its wealth and young
women before the Pakistanis fled in terror, at midnight friday, before
the advancing Indian army. Surviving residents estimate that 3000 of
there townsmen including four Europeans and a retired British army
officer, Colonel Dykes, and his pregnant wife were slain. St Joseph
Franciscan Convent and the convent hospital was stormed and four nuns
were shot.
And the reference for all this lot is? It is a well
known fact that Pakistan did assist the uprising, not with men,
but with logistics as the ruler of Kashmir Hari Singh, asked
for assistance from the Mahrajah of Patiala (and was provided a
Batallion of troops) to put down the insurgency. This is clearly stated
It
was between September and early October, 1947, that Maharaja Sir Hari
Singh asked the Sikh Maharaja of Patiala state for help in suppressing
the Poonch rebellion. He received assistance in the form of a
battalion of infantry and a battery of mountain artillery supplied by
the Sikh ruler from his State Armed Forces.[11]The government of India subsequently took steps to protect the Maharaja�s position in power
and prepare for a possible military intervention. When the Maharaja
began to open discussions with Sheikh Abdullah, the prominent Muslim
leader jailed by the Maharaja�s regime, it became obvious that Jammu
and Kashmir was about to accede to India.
It
is around this time that Pakistan began to accelerate its support of
the indigenous rebellion against the Maharajah�s rule. Pakistani army
officer Major General Akhbar Khan, who was given responsibility for the
operation to support the Kashmiri rebellion, reports in his book
Raiders in Kashmir: �As open interference or aggression by Pakistan was
obviously not desirable it was proposed that our efforts should be
concentrated upon strengthening the Kashmiris internally � and� to prevent arrival of armed civilian or military assistance from India into Kashmir�.
However,
the resulting Pakistani military assistance cannot be equated with the
raiding Pathans who took advantage of the tensions for their own sordid
purposes.
Pakistani troops were not involved
in the advance into Kashmir. It's been stated by the British delegate
at the UN who would have been in a good position to know. There was
plenty of horror stories during partition in Kashmir, many of them
committed by the Dogra Army, and then tribals out to seek revenge
- this was all the more relevant because of the partition riots where
Muslims were killed. Here's a couple from the Times of London
and the Kashmir Times's Hindu editor (an
Indian website..)
Commenting on the Raja's reign of terror, the Times of London observed.
237,000 Muslims were systematically
exterminated, unless they escaped to Pakistan along the border by the
force of the Dogra State headed by the Maharaja in person
GK Reddy, a Hindu editor of Kashmir Times, said
in a statement published in The Daily Gazette, a Hindu paper of
Karachi, in its issue of October 28, 1947: "The mad orgy of Dogra
violence against unarmed Muslims should put any self-respecting human
being to shame. I saw armed bands of ruffians and soldiers shooting
down and hacking to pieces helpless Muslim refugees heading towards
Pakistan� I saw en route State officials freely distributing arms and
ammunition among the Dogras� From the hotel room where I was detained
in Jammu, I counted as many as twenty-six villages burning one night
and all through the night rattling fire of automatic weapons could be
heard from the surrounding refugee camps."
The communal
violence that gripped Jammu was not altogether one-sided. A large
number of Hindu and Sikhs too were butchered in some parts of the
region, particularly in Rajouri, Mirpur and areas now under Pakistani
occupation. But the fact that there was an obvious bid by State forces
to patronise the killings and victimisation of Muslims was a more glaring occurrence. Trouble was brewing in Poonch where a popular non-communal agitation was launched after the Maharaja�s administration took over the erstwhile jagir under its direct control and imposed some taxes. The mishandling of this agitation and use of brutal forces by the Maharaja�s administration inflamed passions,turning this non-communal struggle into communal strife.
Pakistan kept insisting that it was not involved but foreign journalists quickly exposed there lie. Alan Moorehead of the Observer (London) reported that recruitment for the invasion had been going on not only in NWFP but all of Pakistan[2]. Trumbull secretly interviewed American mercenary, Russell K. Haight Jr. who fought along with Pakistanis[2].:
Mr Haight also found Pakistan army personnel running
the Azad Kashmir radio station, relaying messages through there own
Pakistan army receivers, organizing and managing Azad encampments in
Pakistan, and supplying uniforms, food, arms and ammunition which, he
understood, came from Pakistan army stores through such subterfuges as
the 'loss' of ammunition shipments..Mr Haight charaterized the Azad
Kashmir provisional government, headed by Sardar Mohammed Ibrahim Khan,
as 'Pakistan puppets'. He also deeply implicated Pakistan government
officials, notable the Premier of the NWFP.
Evidence emerged from within Pakistan itself, Michael Brecher quotes an appeal made by the Minister of Health for Sind:
to all trained and demobilized soldiers to proceed as volunteers to the Kashmir front.[3].
It's well known where the Poonch got their
ammunition from, but it wasnt the Pakistani government. It was gotten
from the Pathans at the border. There was no reason to get any
ammunition from the Pakistani government.
Initially, maharaja Hari Singh attempted to
argue for an independent status for Jammu and Kashmir. However, events
in different parts of Jammu and Kashmir forced him in the direction of
accession to India. Demobilised Muslim soldiers
returned to Poonch and Mirpur in Jammu and Kashmir to find that the
maharaja was refusing to accept them into his army. In the post-war
period, the maharaja increased taxes, leading to widespread poverty.
This provoked massive protests, particularly in Poonch where, in
October 1947, an uprising was led by demobilised soldiers, armed by
tribes in the North-West Frontier Province region of Pakistan.
British officers and officials working in Pakistan
had got wind of the impending invasion some time before it happened. A
letter Sir George Cunningham, governor of the NWFP, wrote to General
R.M.M Lockhart, Commander-in-Chief of the Indian Army, before the
attack ended with the postscript:
Some people up here have been acting very foolishly. You will know what I mean by the time this letter reaches you.
If you read the link above, Sir George Cunnigham states that Pakistan Army were not involved with the tribals.
General Frank Messervy, Commander-in-Chief in
Pakistan, formally advised Liaqat against such adventurism, and
repeated his advice before flying to London on work.
Indian Government launched Operation JAK to defeat the Pakistan army. V.P.Menon wrote:
Never in the history of warfare has there been an
operation like the airlift of Indian troops to Srinagar on 27 October
and on subsequent days, an operation put through with no previous
thought, let alone organized planning, and at such remarkably short
notice... In the early hours of morning of 27 October over a hundred
civillian aircraft and R.I.A.F (Royal Indian Air Force) planes were
mobilised to fly troops, equipment and supplies to Srinagar. The
R.I.A.F and civillian pilots and ground crews rose to the occasion and
worked heroically to make the airlift a success.
Lord Mountbatten wrote:
in all his war experience he had never heard of an
airlift of this nature being put into operation at such a short notice
and he complimented all concerned on the astonishing performance.
When Jinnah learnt that Indian troops had reached
Srinagar, he ordered Sir Francis Mudie, Governor of Punjab, to phone
General Sir Douglas Gracey, acting chief in absence of General Douglas
Messervey, to send Pakistan army into Kashmir via the Banihal pass and
Rawalpindi Srinagar route. Gracey refused to take orders from Jinnah
and told him that he would need orders from Field Marshall Auchinleck,
the Supreme Commander. Auchinleck told Jinnah on 28 October that
Kashmir was legally part of India and sending the Pakistan army would
amount to a formal declaration of war. And if Pakistan went to war,
Auchinleck said, he would withdraw every British officer serving in the
Pakistan army. Jinnah was stumped[2].
By morning of 8 November Major General Kalwant Singh
and Brigadier L.P.Sen had reached Shalteng the stronghold of Pakistani
army and showed them what war was all about. Battle lasted eight hours
and the Pakistanis were routed. They left 300 dead behind. Soon winter
snow helped Pakistanis as Indian army could not advance any further.
Next spring and summer Indian army had major successes and Pakistan
gave up its pretencce and formally entered war. Major-General
K.S.Thimmaya, who succeeded Kalwant Singh, was confident--and he would
nurse this complaint all through his life--that he would have taken
Muzaffarabad had he not been stopped by the politicians[2].
Hodson, H.V. (1969). The Great Divide: Britain, India, Pakistan.
Akbar, M.J. (2002). Kashmir Behind the vale.
Brecher, Michael (1953). The Struggle for Kashmir.
-Digs
How very Rajput of you
What is your reference for all this? Some of it looks
made up by you like the Jinnah masterplan of riding into Kashmir. I
have found bits of it on a site called "weeklyholiday.net". But it
still doesn't say what you have written down.
http://www.weeklyholiday.net/300503/inret.html
Until 7 November the road from Pakistan to Baramula
was used by others who were neither malevolent nor directly involved in
the conflict. For example, Sir George Cunningham, the Governor of the
North-West Frontier Province, sent on two occasions during this first
week of November small convoys of lorries to Baramula from Peshawar
with the mission of trying to find out what was happening and, if
possible, rescuing any stranded British residents. The Pakistan
Army, too, despatched patrols along this route with the same objective
(but with great care not to get involved in any conflict with the
Indians). A surprising number of individuals, including Sydney
Smith of the Daily Express, as we have already seen, were picked up by
such Pakistani parties and evacuated by way of Kohala and Abbottabad
No. Places existed before and then they were named in Purana. So Kashmir based on the name of Sage Kashyapa existed before Purana came into being. Since Purana just recorded the name as it existed when they written we know the anitquity of the name Kashmir and the fact that it is named after Hindu's.
Think of it like this. First came Kashmir from Ka and Shimeer, and then the Purana was written in which the tale of Kashyapa was written. Don't you think having a monk take his name after Kashmir is more likely than having Kashmir take its name from the first part of a monk's name and then adding on mountain?
Utter nonsense. Kashmiri muslims were terrorists and were attacking Hindus or the security forces. And I will tell you one more thing: If Whites in America/England or any other western country had been killed and raped and forced to abandon there 500,000 Kashmir pandits have had to relocate out of Kashmir due to ethnic cleansing by Paki sponsored terrorists. Every CM, wether is Mufti or Ghulam come up with grand plans to have them come back.
But it's not just Pandits that have had to relocate, it's Kashmiri Muslims. In fact plenty more Kashmiri Muslims have fled across the border into Pakistan, than Pandits have moved down South into Jammu. Either way, Kashmiri Muslims are the majority in Indian Kashmir, so your analogy is silly.
Since you cannot read small letters: EACH SOURCE IS PROVIDED IN MY POST AND THE EXACT QUOTE ATTRIBUTED TO THE AUTHOR. Bottomline Pakistani armiy's ass was kicked by the Indian army in 1948 and it is just sheer ineptitude of our leaders that we are in this mess.
There's no link to your source. Unless there's a direct link to the story from a credible news source, there's room for doubt. When you have lots of indirect references who reference other people, especially the ones you refer to, there's quite a high chance of false reporting.
Pakistan Army wasnt involved in the initial tribal front, later the troops got replaced by regulars, and India went to the UN but got told to hold a plebiscite, which they have not done as yet.
Think of it like this. First came Kashmir from Ka and Shimeer, and then the Purana was written in which the tale of Kashyapa was written. Don't you think having a monk take his name after Kashmir is more likely than having Kashmir take its name from the first part of a monk's name and then adding on mountain?
No think of it like this...first came Aurungzeb and then came Aurngabad....First came Rao Bika and then came Bikaner....first came Bapa Rawal and then came Rawalpindi...think of it like that!
Originally posted by TeldeInduz
But it's not just Pandits that have had to relocate, it's Kashmiri Muslims. In fact plenty more Kashmiri Muslims have fled across the border into Pakistan, than Pandits have moved down South into Jammu. Either way, Kashmiri Muslims are the majority in Indian Kashmir, so your analogy is silly.
Claiming political asylum because of some made up stories and then coming to western countries and earning dollars and pounds...yea I really feel for those kashmiri muslim b*strds!
Originally posted by TeldeInduz
Pakistan Army wasnt involved in the initial tribal front, later the troops got replaced by regulars, and India went to the UN but got told to hold a plebiscite, which they have not done as yet.
I promise you this...next time your country does any 'harkat' on the borders the indus will probably be the color red! Then Musharraf will go running to his gorey masters with his tail between his legs!
Edited by Rajput - 03-Aug-2006 at 11:06
If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.
Think
of it like this. First came Kashmir from Ka and Shimeer, and
then the Purana was written in which the tale of Kashyapa was written.
Don't you think having a monk take his name after Kashmir is more
likely than having Kashmir take its name from the first part of a
monk's name and then adding on mountain?
No
think of it like this...first came Aurungzeb and then came
Aurngabad....First came Rao Bika and then came Bikaner....first came
Bapa Rawal and then came Rawalpindi...think of it like that!
Originally posted by TeldeInduz
But
it's not just Pandits that have had to relocate, it's Kashmiri Muslims.
In fact plenty more Kashmiri Muslims have fled across the border into
Pakistan, than Pandits have moved down South into Jammu. Either way,
Kashmiri Muslims are the majority in Indian Kashmir, so
your analogy is silly.
Claiming
political asylum because of some made up stories and
then coming to western countries and earning dollars and
pounds...yea I really feel for those kashmiri muslim b*strds!
Originally posted by TeldeInduz
Pakistan
Army wasnt involved in the initial tribal front, later the troops got
replaced by regulars, and India went to the UN but got told to hold a
plebiscite, which they have not done as yet.
I
promise you this...next time your country does any 'harkat' on the
borders the indus will probably be the color red! Then Musharraf
will go running to his gorey masters with his tail between his legs!
Rajput,
Do not worry about Telde. He is just a braiwashed bigot for whom
references and scholars do not mean a thing but what he is taught at
madrasas reigns supreme in his head.
Pakis after loosing four wars to India still think of themselves as brave. I wonder what is the source of this delusion.
-Digs
No. Places existed before and then
they were named in Purana. So Kashmir based on the name of Sage
Kashyapa existed before Purana came into being. Since Purana just
recorded the name as it existed when they written we know the anitquity
of the name Kashmir and the fact that it is named after Hindu's.
Think of it like this. First
came Kashmir from Ka and Shimeer, and then the Purana was written
in which the tale of Kashyapa was written. Don't you think having a
monk take his name after Kashmir is more likely than having Kashmir
take its name from the first part of a monk's name and then adding
on mountain?
Now you need a lesson in sanksrit grammar. Please figure out what is sandhi and what is vicheda.
Once you have done so, reread your argument above and if you still
cannot figure out that you are talking non-sense please come back.
[Hint: To form a sandhi you need the original words to exist before
forming the compound].
Utter nonsense. Kashmiri muslims were
terrorists and were attacking Hindus or the security forces. And
I will tell you one more thing: If Whites in America/England or any
other western country had been killed and raped and forced to abandon
there 500,000 Kashmir pandits have had to relocate out of Kashmir
due to ethnic cleansing by Paki sponsored terrorists. Every CM, wether
is Mufti or Ghulam come up with grand plans to have them come
back.
But it's not just Pandits that have
had to relocate, it's Kashmiri Muslims. In fact plenty more Kashmiri
Muslims have fled across the border into Pakistan, than Pandits have
moved down South into Jammu. Either way, Kashmiri Muslims are the
majority in Indian Kashmir, so your analogy is silly.
You still do not read well. Kashmiri Hindus/Pandits OWNED
MAJORITY of kashmiri land. It is irrelevant that muslims are the
majority. Relevant is who owned the land, who are the business owners
and the back bone of economy. So the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri
Pandits at the hand of islamic terrorists is the real problem.
Since you cannot read small letters: EACH SOURCE IS
PROVIDED IN MY POST AND THE EXACT QUOTE ATTRIBUTED TO THE AUTHOR.
Bottomline Pakistani armiy's ass was kicked by the Indian army in 1948
and it is just sheer ineptitude of our leaders that we are in this mess.
There's no link to your source. Unless there's
a direct link to the story from a credible news source, there's room
for doubt. When you have lots of indirect references who reference
other people, especially the ones you refer to, there's quite a
high chance of false reporting.
Are you kidding? These three authors have written books which are
widely acclaimed as great works on the topic. One is a muslim and two
are westerners. None of them is a "biased" Hindu.
To question the credibility of these authors is just "madarsa mentality".
Hodson, H.V. (1969). The Great Divide: Britain, India, Pakistan.
Akbar, M.J. (2002). Kashmir Behind the vale.
Brecher, Michael (1953). The Struggle for Kashmir.
Pakistan Army wasnt involved in the initial tribal
front, later the troops got replaced by regulars, and India went to the
UN but got told to hold a plebiscite, which they have not done as yet.
Paki army was involved upto the hilt. Read these three books and not
some two bit websites and some pamphplets. And Pakistan was told
by UN to vacate POK before plebistice can be held. Please have it vacated and
we will have a plebistice.
This is the reason why General Thimmaya was stopped by Nehruji when the general wanted to flush
out the remaining paki army from POK, very clearly described in the references
given. Had Nehru not stopped the general (because Nehru falsely
believed that Paki army will leave POK because of UN direction so that
he can order plebistice) there would be no POK as Paki army was
completely routed wherever/whenever they fought with Indian army.
Rajput, Do not worry about Telde. He is just a braiwashed bigot for whom references and scholars do not mean a thing but what he is taught at madrasas reigns supreme in his head. Pakis after loosing four wars to India still think of themselves as brave. I wonder what is the source of this delusion. -Digs
you know talking to yourself is the first sign of madness?
Rajput, Do not worry about
Telde. He is just a braiwashed bigot for whom references and scholars
do not mean a thing but what he is taught at madrasas reigns supreme in
his head. Pakis after loosing four wars to India still think of themselves as brave. I wonder what is the source of this delusion. -Digs
you know talking to yourself is the first sign of madness?
It does not parse! Yes I am a rajput and how am I talking to myself?
Rajput, Do not worry about Telde. He is just a braiwashed bigot for whom references and scholars do not mean a thing but what he is taught at madrasas reigns supreme in his head. Pakis after loosing four wars to India still think of themselves as brave. I wonder what is the source of this delusion. -Digs
you know talking to yourself is the first sign of madness?
Even by that incorrect definition, the Kashmiri militants have declared war on Indian troops in Kashmir.
& Who are these Mujahideen of lashkar - e - toiba, jaish - e - mumhammad etc.. etc.. based, trained & armed.
Dear the problem in Kashmir is not the Kashmiri. Its the support in terms of training, arms, money, logistics, camps, bases, provided by Pak. JKLF, the coice of kashmiris was extinguished by pak long back.
Its the Pak habit of fighting hidden wars thats the root of the problem. Even in Kargill they didnt admit of the war, refused to take back the body of Col. Sher Khan initially, but after the Indian media brought it out, awarded the Nishan -e- hyder to him.
They refuted any involvement of their military in the war. But raised the Northern light Infantry to full regimental status as a token of their sacrifices in the war, when the indian media started saying that it were the pathans who were sent into the battlefield & were dying in thousands so that there are no visible effects in punjab, which dominates the Pak polity.
Later off course, the spat between Nawaz Sharif & Musharraf brought out all the facts in the open. & rest is history
LeT is a banned movement in Pakistan (since 2002) and the founder is in and out of court, so is JeM (also since 2002), since these are Pakistani groups. Hizbul Mujahideen is not banned in Pakistan since these are a legitimate Kashmiri group. You still have not provided any proof of training camps in Kashmir adminstered by Pakistan either, just a possibility there might have been one.
What is the point in continuing this discussion ? Look at the reality. Chinese occupied kashmir canot be reclaimed by india, at least not in the near future. That leaves Indian Kashmir which cannot be won over by Pak. because Pak army is to india what Indian army is to china. But yes in this context POK has all the chances of coming over to india. the equation is very simple. India cannot defeat china in a war & Pak cannot think of beating india. But china can easily defeat india & India can easily defeat pak. while china doesnt have any further interest in kashmir, India & Pak have. But since the later is economically much less prominent than the former, that leaves very few options for Kashmir.
What is the point in continuing this discussion ? Look at the reality. Chinese occupied kashmir canot be reclaimed by india, at least not in the near future. That leaves Indian Kashmir which cannot be won over by Pak. because Pak army is to india what Indian army is to china. But yes in this context POK has all the chances of coming over to india. the equation is very simple. India cannot defeat china in a war & Pak cannot think of beating india. But china can easily defeat india & India can easily defeat pak. while china doesnt have any further interest in kashmir, India & Pak have. But since the later is economically much less prominent than the former, that leaves very few options for Kashmir.
'47 and '65 you didnt win (Rann of Kutch) '71 you only won when East Pakistan Army deserted and 2 million Bangladeshis helped you. Kargil I'd say Pakistan won if you want to call it a "war". Siachen I would say Pakistan are winning too.
My dear intelligent friend. For a change I will accept all your claims ! Agreed that you won all the wars or battles, small or Big in the whole of history. Ans also agreed that our wins, if any (there are'nt any according to you except bangladesh) were due to external help not our skills. Also let us for a moment, hypothetically except your claim on kashmir, that it is yours.
Then what stopped you from taking the wh ole of kashmir in the past & what stops you from attacking india & taking it now ?
And why on earth did you have to gift a great part of your valued Kashmir to the Chinese ? Were you afraid of them ?
And also what stopped you from liberating Indian hyderabad & Junagadh states when their rulers had clearly mentioned that they would like to go to Pakistan. Why did'nt you show your bravery then & why are you not exercising your right to kashmir now ?
If you are that brave than you can still take the whole of kashmir, Hyderabad, Junagadh by a simple small attack on India who are cowards anyway (your point).
Dont waste your energy and time after this person. He'll never ever listen to you........
I dont know why ?, but he is trying to ruin the harmony among Indo-pakis.
Yeah, some examples of Indo-Pak harmony from Sharma "Ji" (not including his posts as "Digs" or "Rajput" as he desperately tries to reincarnate himself)
The custom of Sati is basically one in which the widow burns herself on the death pyre of her husband.
This custom came into practice in mediveal India as a means to prevent the widowed women from being taken away by the Muslims, who were also the rulers of India in those times. during those times it was common for the Hindu women to be raped, kidnapped, traded & sold in markets as far as Arabia & Turkey as slaves.
So long as the husband was there, their would be at least a semblance of attachment (read protection) for the hindu women, but after his death, she would be alone. This was because the Hindu customs did not encourage widow remarriage. So she would become an easy target for the muslims.
One thing everybody needs to keep in mind is by whom this thread was started. What else can you expect from Muslims. They would never understand the value or meaning of words like fredom, equal opportunities etc..It just doesnt exist in their culture & religion. First of all a muslim man talking about women is itself a big joke. For them they are nothing more than breeders of children to be used & enjoyed as the long world history has repetedly shown (even today). They not only surpressed & committed attroicities on the women of the cultures they conuered, they denied basic human rights, exploited & comitted attroicities even against their own women.
Just because I said you looked a bit Chinese in your picture, why do you get offended? That's what I think, you do look like you got some Chinese ancestry, mixed with the Indian mainstay from your features a bit like some upper caste from Himachal Pradesh most likely, but definitely not an average"pure" Gurjjar.
Then what stopped you from taking the wh ole of kashmir in the past & what stops you from attacking india & taking it now ?
My point was in relation to your gloating that India could beat Pakistan like China could beat India, India could not beat Pakistan however much it tried.
And why on earth did you have to gift a great part of your valued Kashmir to the Chinese ? Were you afraid of them ?
Strategic
And also what stopped you from liberating Indian hyderabad & Junagadh states when their rulers had clearly mentioned that they would like to go to Pakistan. Why did'nt you show your bravery then & why are you not exercising your right to kashmir now ?
Hyderabad was mainly Hindu. Pakistan probably realized that dictators ruled Hyderabad and Kashmir, and their opinion was not held by the people. So the world's greatest demoncracy took Kashmir by force against the will of the people, and Pakistan left Hyderabad alone.
If you are that brave than you can still take the whole of kashmir, Hyderabad, Junagadh by a simple small attack on India who are cowards anyway (your point).
Demonstrate the bravery.
Pakistan doesnt want Hyderabad and has no right to it, even though it acceded to it, a referendum would have shown the people wanted to join India, Kashmir though wanted to join Pakistan, and out of the two would still choose it now.
Sharma "Ji" (not including his posts as "Digs" or "Rajput" as he desperately tries to reincarnate himself)
Actually, they are three completely different people from completely different places in the world.
Kashmir is basically a stalemate. Neither side can defeat the other,
and even if one did gain an advantage, they now risk nuclear war as
well.
I think both Pak & India can use our famous rivallry to extend our
influences in other parts of the world. Think about it, India threatens
to invade Oman, Pakistan moves into Oman to prevent India, fire a few
shells in Kashmir, Pakistan gains control of Oman
Pakistan threatens Sri-Lanka, India "protects it", fire a few shells in Kashmir, India gains control of Sri Lanka.
Two state imperialism.
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