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Attila2
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Topic: Best leader of a Muslim country at present? Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 17:46 |
no I am not Racist,I just support the purity of the races .... and thats all.I believe in the holiness of the life ...
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azimuth
Caliph
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 17:46 |
Originally posted by Attila2
Please delete this topic,Turkey is NOT AN ISLAMIC country! |
then why turkey is a member of The Organization of the Islamic Conference ?
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Attila2
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 17:48 |
coz most of the people bear "Muslim" word on their identity,but their "muslimity" is debatable
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Lmprs
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 17:56 |
Originally posted by Attila2
no I am not Racist,I just support the purity of the races .... and thats all.I believe in the holiness of the life ... |
Supporting the purity of races? I think it is called racism!
Edited by barish
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Attila2
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 18:10 |
well,the human nature makes the humans to seek the best host for their children,and nationalism and cultural uniformism come from this point,coz instinctively the humans want to have a partner that shares the same origin with them thus knowing the habits/behaviours of their partners and serving as the fittest host for their breed...
IT is one of someone's major rights to determine and guarantee the lives of his/her children... and it is not racism(maybe to a point but not more,but obviously not FASCISM!) and posing it as a danger is a "biiiig silly" unless that behaviour poses a threat
For example,I dont want to have sex with a darker skinned girl or someone other than a Turk,and it is not something wrong or offending, it is just sexual selection
I think it is over
Thanks
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Guests
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 18:16 |
Perhaps apart from people living on isolated islands nobody can claim
racial purity. Which is good, because influx of new genes is healthy,
it prevents inbreeding. In the long term 'racial purity' only has bad
effects one the genes of the 'race'.
And then I haven't even said anything about the mayhem the struggle for 'racial purity' has led to.
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Attila2
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 18:24 |
well,but everyone should respect the other's choices ....
And what is it to me if some crazy guys came and killed lots of innocent people for racial purity...Did I kill them?
its my opinion,and I can like/love or dislike ANYONE whom I want,and forcing someone to change his views on people is just like taking them to "the death camp of tolerance"
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Maju
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 20:27 |
Originally posted by Attila2
no I am not Racist,I just support the purity of the races ... |
Then you should be consequent and sucicide because I bet that you (like almost anyone) are not of any pure race.
Besides, races don't exist. There's just clinal variation of
genotype/phenotye which doesn't ammount even to a tiny fraction of what
would be necesary to make up a subspecies. Also we humans are not
cattle or pets, the only contexts where the idea of race-purity can
make any sense (via artificial selection and incest).
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Ahmed The Fighter
Chieftain
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 05:25 |
The elected Iraqi Prime minister Dr.Ibrahim Al-Jaafri.
he is very decent and calm man.
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"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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Mira
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 05:49 |
Originally posted by Maju
I don't think so. Turk is an ethnic term, therfore I always find odd when I read that in ethnic conflicts in the area, religion and etnicity seem to mix so easily. I have known atheist Turks, and I never ever thought they were less Turks for that reason.
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Originally posted by barish
Turk means nothing but "a citizen of Turkey" in official issues in my country. I hope you understand it now. |
Thank you Maju and Barish for your responses. I believe you both have missed my point. I was only commenting on Barish's personal interpretation of what PM Erdogan might have meant by labeling religion as the main source of identity. My point was: If we were to unerstand Erdogan's remark the way it was interpreted by Barish - i.e. "A non-muslim citizen of Turkey is a threat to our identity" - then we might as well take into consideration the fact that this is anyway a widely accepted view in the Western academia. Needless to say, one of the main arguments against Turkey's joining the EU has to do with Turkey's identity, which - according to the West - is strictly Islamic.
Nevertheless, I agree with Attila2's point: Turkey is not an Islamic country. Islamic aspects in Turkish culture and law, however, are quite visible.
It is a shame though that people are arguing here to dissociate Turkey from Islam, while the West is trying to reconcile with the Church. Regardless of political and ideological conflicts, I truly respect Israel for identifying itself not just on ethnic terms, but on religious ones, too.
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Mira
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 05:53 |
Originally posted by azimuth
then why turkey is a member of The Organization of the Islamic Conference ? |
Not just a member. The Head of the organization is a Turk, too!
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Mortaza
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 06:27 |
can't believe this! How old are you? Five?
"oulcu ve katlmc demokrasi deerlerine ve insan haklarna dayanan, gcn halktan alan, ada demokratik sol bir siyasal kurulutur."
From The Constitution of CHP
Yeah, sure, do you only read all empires, action talk not words. Yes he was calling himself as left-winger party, but reality is that it is a hard- kemalist party, and its main voters are not workers. It get votes mainly by richest parts of Turkey.
By the way, I loved your logic: rich people are right-wingers, poor people are leftist!
Generally, leftist goverments benefit poors, and rightist ones are richs. so?
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erci
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 06:28 |
I'm not sure about the best but the funniest is Kaddafi
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Mortaza
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 06:33 |
Nevertheless, I agree with Attila2's point: Turkey is not an Islamic country. Islamic aspects in Turkish culture and law, however, are quite visible.
what is islamic country? If It only means seriah, no it is not. So there are a lot country who is not islamic.
by the way, topic is related with muslim country, and Turkey is absolutely a muslim countr, and islam play a big role at turkish politics, secular or not.
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Mira
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 06:41 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
what is islamic country? If It only means seriah, no it is not. So there are a lot country who is not islamic.
by the way, topic is related with muslim country, and Turkey is absolutely a muslim countr, and islam play a big role at turkish politics, secular or not. |
Salaamz Mortaza,
Yes, I was referring to "Islamic country," as in ruled by Shariah law. You are right; most countries are not Islamic. Also, some countries are self-declared Islamic republics, such as Iran and (former) Afghanistan. Whether they are or not is debatable.
Also, I agree with your statement: Islam does play a role not only in Turkish politics, but in every day culture and life.
Thank you for your response.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 06:50 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
Yeah, sure, do you only read all empires, action talk not words. Yes he was calling himself as left-winger party, but reality is that it is a hard- kemalist party, and its main voters are not workers. It get votes mainly by richest parts of Turkey. |
Mortaza, Kemalism is a left-wing ideology.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 07:03 |
Mortaza, Kemalism is a left-wing ideology.
So you thing so, Infact It is complately right winged ideology, It resist every type of changing, It limits a lot freedom.(not only talking minority rights but also majority rights)It is a world-closed(If there is such word) ideology.
Infact It is not even an ideology but It is something like a religion.
you can tell anyone "Ataturk said this!!!", and discussion is closed. What Ataturk said is holy, and even after 100 year, you cannot change this.
I know this is not what Ataturk want, but what kemalism becomed is this.
for economical point, kemalism is something between capitalism and socialism. I think Ataturk didnt follow any -ism- but only opportunism.(like a good leader)
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 09:42 |
Kemalism in its present form has become very restrictive for Turkish citizens. Which puts Erdogan into a better light since he has made significant progress in many a field, without breaching or offending the army (enforcer of Kemalism).
However more to the point, i have heard that some have said that they dont like Erdogan (He sucks...etc) but all you have to fall back on is his PERSONAL belief in Islam. You have ignored the service he has done for his people. Age old grudges with nations such as Syria are a thing of the past thanks to Erdogan.
Please state your reasons for any negative factors that he has created whilst being in his post.
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 16:36 |
I voted for Talat. He used to be a Communist in university, maybe he still is. And along with Erdoan, he is actually elected, unlike the others up there.
I think Kemalism is not an ideology, but a modernisation program, based on full Westernisation (not just modernisation) and nation building and aims at a European style social-liberal democratic state. Socialism is internationalist, not nationalist, and aims at a socialist economy where Capitalism is abolished (Social Democrats believe that this can be achieved step by step, radical leftists believe in revolution). Kemalism doesn't share these aims. Economically it is to the left of an imaginary centre, but this is not enough to make its program socialist. So I don't consider CHP a leftist party, not even Social Democrat. It is way too Nationalistic and Authoritarian, but not very Socialist. Also, as Murtaza writes its support does not come from, and its politics are not based on, the working class.
However more to the point, i have heard that some have said that they dont like Erdogan (He sucks...etc) but all you have to fall back on is his PERSONAL belief in Islam. You have ignored the service he has done for his people. |
He has serious problems in managing the country. His party is very inexperienced, and way too friendly with the foreign capital. His misdeeds include attempting to let the Americans to station troops in Turkey (failed to clear the parliament). Attempting to send Turkish troops to be stationed in the Sunni triangle in Iraq after the invasion (offer rejected by Americans). Privatising profitable state industries because 'even the ex-communists have privatised everything'. Making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Attempting to introduce Islamic laws and practices now and then. Attempting to turn religious schools (which are not for teaching Islam, but for training priests) into an alternative education system parallel to the secular one. Filling positions in state institutions with Islamists.
Grossly mismanaging the Ministry of Health: Coming up with a law which united two separate hospital commands in Turkey (SSK and Ministry of Health) literally overnight. Insider sources (Medical trade associations) estimate that 8000 to 10000 patients died because of the chaos that ensued. Patients couldn't get the medicine they needed, there were long queues, failures in management etc... Which were not reported in the media, most of which is owned by the Liberal capital which loves Erdoan as long as he doesn't try to ban alcohol or adultery. And just as I am typing, and additional 1000 patients are estimated to be dying, because AKP changed the system in employing nurses in hospitals (probably to get their people in), and there was a one month gap between the coming of the new nurses and the leaving of the old ones because they are idiots who can't manage anything. I know for a fact that one of the biggest hospitals in stanbul (and thus in Turkey), and possibly many others, are not accepting any non-urgent patients due to a lack of nurses...
AKP is a lot like American neo-cons. A completely capital friendly, socially conservative bunch of losers who can't manage sh*t to save their own lives. Erdoan is a big enemy of the poor people.
Islamic aspects in Turkish culture and law, however, are quite visible. |
There are no Islamic aspects in Turkish law that I am aware of. Turkish law is based on European systems since the Republic.
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Maju
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 16:43 |
Originally posted by erci
I'm not sure about the best but the funniest is Kaddafi
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I agree 200%
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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