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Pyrrhus vs Ali Bey

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Lucky7MQ View Drop Down
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  Quote Lucky7MQ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pyrrhus vs Ali Bey
    Posted: 17-Nov-2005 at 10:25

I was wondering if anyone out there would be willing to help me out.  I have a couple questions about Pyrrhus of Epirus and Ali Bey, the Pasha of Epirus.  I posted them below.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Although Pyrrhus operated in the context of the more important kingdoms formed by Alexander's successors and Ali Pacha was a cog in the macinery of the Ottoman Empire, they carved out significant roles for themselves.  Did they use similar methods?  Do these methods illustrate even earlier legacies?  How durable are their methods of control?

 



Edited by Lucky7MQ
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  Quote Alkiviades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2005 at 10:40
good luck with your essay, that's surely a tough one. You'll have a ton of research to do, if only to find out what those two did - the comparison part is the easiest, I gues.
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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2005 at 13:12

Originally posted by Lucky7MQ

Although Pyrrhus operated in the context of the more important kingdoms formed by Alexander's successors

I don't know if I agree with this. Epirus really wasn't too important of a kingdom, it was rather small and inconsequential. The reason why Pyrrhus' victories were so 'pyrrhic' was because his kingdom had little to no reinforcements to send. The reason why it gets any sort of publicity was because of Pyrrhus.

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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2005 at 13:53
I wish I knew more about Ali Pasha then I do, but unfortunately, I dont have any info on any military strategies he used against the Turks or anything in perticular. With Pyrrhus I am far less blind. Much of his military success can be attributed to the Roman ill knowledge and fear of his elaphants. In nearly all of his battles they were won right after their intervention with the Romans gaining the upper hand before then. I think Pyrrhus is an underrated general, an early proto-type of Hannibal. He would suffer from the same problem the later genius would. Lack of support(the eventual abandonment of Pyrrhus by the very cities that brought him to italy), an enemy fighting in its own turf determined till the end, insufficient and generally inferior army(Pyrrhus would later be forced to used Tarantines in his army, who were not accustomed to the Sarissa). Pyrrhus was a good general but in the end, he was fighting against odds and lost.

I dont see how Ali Pasha compares to Pyrrhus however, as Pyrrhus was not in Epirus, his campaigns were offensives, yet Ali Pasha, with the exception of the local attacks on the Souliots and other people of Epirus(razing of Moscopole) was defensive in the larger part. The defenses he setup in Ioannina were incredibly large and made it so a small amount of reinforcement could handle a strong Ottoman attack.

Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 11:58
Ali Pasha had a French prisoner that he had captured when his ship was marooned whom he named Ibrahim Manzur. I have his book and  he explains in detail the situation in Epirus back then, Ali's tyrant personality and also other events that happened back then.

This frenchman helped Ali Pasha built a lot of his castles in Janina, he also invented a more powerful ingredient for his cannons by mixing dynamite with the stuff that you have in your walls(forgot the name in English). Like Iskender i dont think ALi pasha was a great strategist, he was very cunning diplomatically as the book details and generally had an intelligence for mischief.
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  Quote Slasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 09:39
vulkan02, do you mean mortar by any chance?

I believe they use it in walls and they call modern weapons 'mortar's' so perhaps that is it?
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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 12:28
Im assuming by mortar he means it shoots cannons in the air making them raindown on the enemy.
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  Quote Slasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 13:40
That's the one, it is interesting though that weapon is called as such AND the stuff in walls is called the same...
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 23:17
Probably but i recall that the book says that it made the thrust of the iron ball much stronger so it could be used as a mortar.
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