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boody4
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Topic: Origins of polish Posted: 13-Aug-2004 at 10:42 |
I'd like to find out origins of some polish words such as Wlochy(Italy) and Wegry(Hungary). I'd like to know why those names are so different from the names those countries give to themselves or most other languages name them.
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Rava
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Posted: 13-Aug-2004 at 13:27 |
Most probably the name Wochy could be traced back to Vlach tribe. Wgry - just some nasal pronounciation un>. But I,m not a language specialist.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 10:32 |
In Persian, Hungary is called "Majarestan" and Poland "Lahestan".
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boody4
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Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 11:49 |
In Persian, Hungary is called "Majarestan" and Poland "Lahestan". |
Well for Hungary, I'm guessing they kept the name of the founding tribe to name it "Magyar>Majar". And before, the Polish had different names and one of them was the "Lechs"(probably because of the legendary founder of the country), so I'm guessing they chose that to name the country.
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Rava
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Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 12:32 |
Once I got some knowledge from an Iranian. He wrote:"I looked up Steingass and it had the word "Lahistni", which is another pronunciation of Lahestni (Polish). In Borhne Qte (17th century lexicon written by an Iranian in India) it writes: Leh = Name of a city (or country) in Farangestn (Europe) situated in the vicinity of Rum (Rome). Most probably "Ahli Lah" is just Ahl (Arabic loan word meaning native) + -i (= -e for conjunction) + Lah (= Lache or Leche). So Ahli Lah = Lahestni = Native of Poland = Polish." [end of quote]
Turks call Poland - Lehistan while the Arabs: Bolanda. Perhaps the name Lah ( a name of Lach tribes ) appeared in Iran through the Ottoman Turks?
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boody4
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Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 18:10 |
Ok, but can someone answer my question about the origin of the word Hungary that can be backed up with evidence. I'm really curious about that.
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ihsan
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Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 19:09 |
The name Hungary drives from On Ogur meaning "Ten Tribes" in Old Western Turkic (the Magyars were composed of ten tribes IIRC).
Onogur -> Ungar -> Hungary
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boody4
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Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 17:46 |
No.. the origin of Hungary in polish.
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Rava
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Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 18:08 |
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boody4
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Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 11:19 |
Sorry, but I'm not that good at understanding written polish , I'm more used to spoken polish. If it's not too much trouble , can you give me the overall explanation of that website, because it didn't clear up anything for me to be honest.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 12:37 |
I have heard that the word pole means "field" in Polish, I think it can be related to Pol or Pal in Pesian which means "a flat ground suitable for farming".
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Rava
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Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 15:27 |
For boody4:
The Hungarians call themselves Magyar and the country Magyarorszg ( pol. Madziar, madziarski, also magierka). We say: Węgier (old use Węgrzyn), Węgry, comp. czech. Uher, Uhry, rus. Wiengr, Wiengrija, also eng. Hungarian, germ. Ungar, fran. Hongrois, span. Hngaro. This is why the Hungarians used to write in latin texts: Ungri, later Ungari, and then Hungari. Aleksander Brckner in his Słownik etymologiczny języka polskiego suggests that the Slavs transfered name Onogur, Ongur (w- the aspiration, old slav. ągri) onto the Hungarians.
Cyrus Shahmiri wrote: have heard that the word pole means "field" in Polish, I think it can be related to Pol or Pal in Persian which means "a flat ground suitable for farming".
Can you find out similar relations in other polish tribal names like Mazoszanie (spell. mazoshanie), Kujawianie (kuiavianie), Kaszubi (kashubi), Kurpie etc. There are some towns with sufficses -gard that remains persian -gird in Poland.
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TheDiplomat
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Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 11:22 |
Calling a Polish as Leh is easier to say than calling Polonyali
But for country name i prefer Polonya to Lehistan
sorry for going off topic BTW
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ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!
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boody4
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Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 18:49 |
Originally posted by boody4
Sorry, but I'm not that good at understanding written polish , I'm more used to spoken polish. If it's not too much trouble , can you give me the overall explanation of that website, because it didn't clear up anything for me to be honest. |
Makes sense because a lot of slavic words take their root in ancient Iranian languages. Like our word for GOD: BOG.
I wonder what other words might take their root from ancient Iranian languages.
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rider
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 06:53 |
i dont know, anyway even turks called it Lehistan....
my language is different of yours that i could collapse, relativly same to Finnish...
anyway, polish call their country as Rzcepszopolita(or something like that???), i think it meant Repuplic. Polish Republic in Estonian - Poola Vabariik. It makes maybe sence to look what it is in Turkish and then to English and away, there should come maybe even the name of Hungary ("Ungari" in Estonian) and Italy("Itaalia" in Estonian).
Ungari(est)
Ungar(ger)
Hungary(eng)
Hungaros(frn)
Weingri(rus.)
Wegri(pls)
And besides that i think the Ukranian languages have its affect on polish so should know how it is in Ukranian and somewhere it changes to Russian and you can see the names resemble with Polish.
Now, if someone understood anything,
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 12:04 |
Can you find out similar relations in other polish tribal names like Mazoszanie (spell. mazoshanie), Kujawianie (kuiavianie), Kaszubi (kashubi), Kurpie etc. There are some towns with sufficses -gard that remains persian -gird in Poland. |
Those words sound very Persian but I can't say exactly they are similar to which Persian words, maybe ...
Mazoshanie -> Mahroshan (Light Moon) Kuiavianie -> Kaviani (Kingship, Royal, Descendents of Kaveh) or Keivan (Saturn) Kashubi -> Kashian (Kassite) or Kashvad (One of descendants of Kaveh, founder of Gudarzian dynasty)
Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri
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boody4
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 12:05 |
"polish call their country as Rzcepszopolita(or something like that???), i think it meant Repuplic."
(*Rzeczpospolita)I think it's more Polish Commonwealth.
"And besides that i think the Ukranian languages have its affect on polish so should know how it is in Ukranian and somewhere it changes to Russian and you can see the names resemble with Polish."
Um..if I understood what you're saying ... Ukrainian is like a mix of Russian and Polish, the names resemble more the Polish ones because it was longer under Polish rule than Russian rule so most of the Ukrainien names were either polish or polonised. I have Ukrainien and Russian friends and I understand almost everything my Ukrainien friend says but it's a different story for my Russian friend .
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rider
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 12:25 |
then i think you got my story
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boody4
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 21:27 |
Lol, then woohoo for me
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Maciek
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Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 02:34 |
Originally posted by rider
anyway, polish call their country as Rzcepszopolita(or something like that???), i think it meant Repuplic. Polish Republic in Estonian - Poola Vabariik. It makes maybe sence to look what it is in Turkish and then to English and away, there should come maybe even the name of Hungary ("Ungari" in Estonian) and Italy("Itaalia" in Estonian).
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Word Rzeczpospolita is taken direct from latin - "Res Publica" - "Rzecz Pospolita" - Res means thing - in this context means country. Publica - means that it belongs to the populi - people.
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