Court Backs Turkish Headscarf Ban

Hehe, the school i went to didn't have much in the ways of restrictions, but something funny did happen. One guy decided to shave his head (purely for aesthetic and sporting reasons), and was suspended for having a 'nazi haircut', this Dutch-Chinese guy decided to have some fun, he came to school in a 'white power' T-shirt, whilst some of the staff noticed and commented on it, none of them could bring themselves to take any form of action or talk to him about it. 

British schools can very anal about restrictions, i'm so glad i didn't have to go to one.

surat al nor,  how do you translate it to english?

We've discussed the headscarf issue before and in dfferent translations it may have different meanings. Cover your chest is the predominant meaning! Some see it as cover the head though.

Edited by Seko

Originally posted by azimuth Originally posted by Maju Originally posted by azimuth Originally posted by Maju Anyhow, the headscarf is not any religious commandment. Nowhere in the Quran says that women must wear it. It's just a social custom, like miniskirt or high heeled shoes. nop its not a social custom like miniskirt , its part of the religion and its mentioned in the Quran Clearly. Where? All the verses I've read only mention that women (and men) should wear modestly. No mention on keeping something on your head. This is an interpretation, not an essential part of Muslim religion. read this then 24:31 surat Al Nor dont know how is that in the translations you have but its clear enough in Arabic.

Here you have three diferent translations in English from http://al-islam.org/:

[Shakir 24:31] And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful. [Yusufali 24:31] And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss. [Pickthal 24:31] And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.

I have looked in Merryam-Webster online dictionary, just in case I was misreading the meaning of bosom but it is very clear: it means breast or chest.

bosom Main Entry: 1bos�om opWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bosom001.wav=bosom')"> Pronunciation: 'bu-z&m also 'b�- Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English bOsm; akin to Old High German buosam bosom 1 a : the human chest and especially the front part of the chest <hugged the child to his bosom> b : a woman's breasts regarded especially as a single feature <a woman with an ample bosom>; also : BREAST 2 a : the chest conceived of as the seat of the emotions and intimate feelings <a story you will take to your bosom> b : the security and intimacy of or like that of being hugged to someone's bosom <lived in the bosom of her family> 3 : the part of a garment that covers the chest or the breasts

In a lot of cultures women wear and wore some sort of head cover, sari (rusar in persiani) was in Iran before Islam and its hijab, I think this interpretation has never been enforced by law in Iran until 1979.

That's also for Turkish culture. Traditional women used to wear head scarfs (not hijabs though) since ancient times and they still use such costumes, though they arent prohibited or banned anywhere. But covering your hair shouldnt have to be the very same way that Arabs used to 2000 years ago, eve before Islam, right?

But anyway, the EU court's decision makes no sense or no importance for me, since it isnt God or our father to decide the right ot wring for us. If we have any problems with wearing hijab or not (we dont, that's false agenda), we should solve it our own, not by the advices of a western court or Arab league...

I heared the Islamic party won in Turkey a year ago or so.. what happened nw?

The, or an?
AFAIK there is more than one.

It should not be banned and it should not be forced on to. thats if the state doesnt want any internal problems, but as i can see the turkish government is really pushing it. there are way too many devoted muslims in turkey, 25-30% of the country. its just a matter of time till an uprising of somesort to happen.

i think this is one of the great disadvantages of translating the quran, it simply loses its meaning.

they should translate the Explanation of the words in the Quran not the Quran itself word by word,

for example from the above Ayah (verse) it says in Arabic "Wa LeYadhrebna BeKhumrehinah Ala Jeyobehenah"

if you asked someone who knows Arabic but not the Calssical Arabic to translate that word by word he would say.

"And To Hit themselvs with their Head Scarf on their Pokets"

really that how it sounds. but its not correct.

the Translations you provided for this exact verse says.

"and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms"

"that they should draw their veils over their bosoms"

"and to draw their veils over their bosoms"

 each saw that the word Veils is the correct translation for the Word "Khumrihena"

also each saw that Bosoms is the Correct translation for the word "Jeyobehenah"

so now what does that verse means????

in Arabic we have like 7 volums of Explanations of the Words of the Quran in Arabic, 7 volums from one scholar. not to mention other scholars through history.

in the Explanation "Tafseer"  of Ibn Katheer , this verse orders women to use their Head scarf to cover their chests,

Which means that they are already Covering their heads with their Head Scarfs and need to Cover their Chests with that scarf too.

so covering the Head, the Neck, the shoulders and the Chest with their scarf.

i dont know if there are any English translations of the explanations of the Quran, such as the reasons of each verse and when it was said and what people did understand that at that time and what they did in accordance with this verse.

 

anyway there are more verses talking about Hijabs.

such as Surat Al Ahzab Ayah 59,  "chapter 33 verses 59"

[59] O Prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

in Arabic its much much clearer than that.

it says "Yudneena Alayhinah Men Jalabebhenah" which simply means "lower (cover) on themselves with thier clothes"

Tabari in his Explanation says that this is an order for wormen to cover their heads and faces when they go out of their homes.

 

Afaik Kuran mention  the word "Hymar" if I'm not mistaken it means veil or cover?

In one of the phrases above, it is written:
"shame of sex".
Why is sex considered shameful? It is a normal function for the male and female human species, not to mention neurologically and physically necessary to maintain hormonal levels (chemical imbalances) at a normal level! It's no secret that males and females have sex not only to procreate but for the pure pleasure, excitement and enjoyment of the act. It is vital for human existence, yet it is looked down upon as shameful. Why is that?

Back to the topic, headwear in schools should not be banned, period. There used to be a time when women were not allowed to wear pants in the US public schools, but society changed, times changed, and therefore the laws were changed in accordance with same, and now women can pretty much wear comfortable clothing, including slacks, jeans, etc to schools. I really can't see the connection between headwear and education, or why education should be sacrificed because you wearing something on your head, be it a hat,veil, or whatever! That's all!   

I bet if Queen Elizabeth showed up with one of her frilly, feathery, pompous, designer hats, no one would say a word to her or tell her she's banned from anything!



Edited by morticia