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Alans???

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  Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Alans???
    Posted: 01-Dec-2005 at 05:52
Lots of Alans settled in Brittany (NW France).

There are so many groups of Alans in the historical record that some scholars feel it necessary to point out that the links betwee the various groups are often very tenuous.
rgds.

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  Quote Anbalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 14:54

Originally posted by kotumeyil

My family is from Erzurum-Horasan and there is a village called "Ardos" there. Probably it was a former Armenian village...

It might be.  I have not found enough descriptive information where the Alans settled. It could be somewhere in modern Turkey, Armenia or northern Iran. There is also information about other group of Alans who were hired by Vizantia to fight Turks in Erzurum area in about 14 BC.  

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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 13:53
My family is from Erzurum-Horasan and there is a village called "Ardos" there. Probably it was a former Armenian village...
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  Quote Anbalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 08:11

Originally posted by Zagros

Yes it does, the full name is Ardalan. ALans settled there.

By Armenian historical sources king Artashes, a Parthian ruler, married Alanian princess Satenik. It is also known that many Alans loyal to parents of Satenik were welcomed by Artashes and given some land to settle. They named the place as "Artas, the name of land where they came from". By another Armenian source the original land of Alans, located in North Caucasia on river Armna (Terek) bank called "Ardos" (Armenian Geography, 7AC). I see some connections between "Ardalan" and "Ardas" as Alans called themselves "As(i)". However it confuses me because I thought "Ardos" has meaning "meadow" as it is in modern Ossetic. However it might be another meaning from "Art" (fire) or "Ard" (oath). Where the place "Ardalan" is located? Could it be the same land mentioned as "Ardas" which was given to Alans by Artashes?



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  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 15:34
Yeah, that was also a emirate, Ardalan. Thanks for confirming by the way Zagros.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 10:42
Yes it does, the full name is Ardalan. ALans settled there.
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  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 07:51
There is a region in Kurdistan called Alan, does this have anything to do with the Alans?
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 06:11

Kurosh is Cyrus, you are right, the reason it is pronounced Cyrus (Syrus) is because of the Romans, who pronounced the C as S and the Greeks who coulldn't pronounce sh ().

Greek: Kyrus ; Anglo-Roman: Cyrus ; Iranian: Kurosh

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  Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 03:44

You forgot(or I missed it) that Serbs and Croats were also originally(or at least it's very possible) Alans-Ptolemy(or Pliny) mentions Serboi and Choroates near Caucasus.Now,I read in a different thread that ''Sorb'' means 'gray' in Persian,and that Alans wore gray.If u look at the medieval maps of Poland and east Germany u will find that Sorbi and Surpi are mentined a few times;arabian geographer from 10. century mentions Belochrobates(white Chroats) on Vistula(Poland).Aprox. at 7th century part of Serbs and Chroats settled in the Balkans;polish Croats(white Croats were absorbed by the Poles,and Sorbs(Lusatian Serbs or as the Germans call them-Wends)was conquered by the Germans in11. century,but they kept their identity until today-although  their numbers decreased.

I should mention that these Alans were assimilated by the Slavs-all that is left are their original names(majority of todays Serbs-and as I hear -Croats consider themselves Slavs).

Very interesting-Cyrus in original(Persian) is appaerently Kourosh,while Urosh is a very common name in Serbia(name of one of our kings).

Plese correct me if I made some errors(or if there's anything more to say on the subject).

 

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  Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2005 at 13:02
My uncle had a very thick book - "Turkisms in Russian Language" - it had thousands and thousands of very widely used Russian words (origination of part of them were under question though).

Also there is a very interesting book, also in Russian - N.A.Baskakov "Russian Family Names (or Surnames) of Turkic Origin". Very many famous Russians have Turkic origin - their ancestors came from the Steppe to serve Russian Tzars, for example (from my memory): famous writers - Tolstoys clan, Turgenevs, Kuprin, Karamzin (historian), Artzybashev, military commanders - Kutuzov (who defeated Napoleon), Suvorov (who fought against Ottoman Turks, and also killed many Noghays, who did not earlier  join Kazakhs as part of Kishi Juz or Smaller horde - that was a real genocyde, very few of them survived hiding in Northern Caucasus), Ushakov (who destroyed Turkish navy),  Kolchak (hero of Civil War who fought against Bolsheviks in Urals and Siberia),  famous scientists - Beketov, Beklemishev, Timiryazev,  politicians - Arakcheyev,  and many many others, I just can't remember.  


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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2005 at 11:54

Originally posted by Rakhsh

Turkish words??? Give an example please of Turkish words in Hindi langauge

Take a look at this article. It says there are thousands of Turkic words in Indian....

CONTRIBUTION OF TURKIC LANGUAGES IN THE EVOLUTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES

K.Gajendra Singh

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/turkish.html

 

 

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  Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2005 at 00:43
I would recommend to read - Rene Grousset "The Empire of the Steppes - A History of Central Asia"  Rutgers University Press.
pp.72-79. The Huns in Europe: Attila.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2005 at 15:36

Originally posted by Rakhsh

Turkish words??? Give an example please of Turkish words in Hindi langauge

I'm talking about Urdu, not Hindi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urdu_language

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2005 at 08:13
I'm not sure about an internet link. The reference I provided is from the book I mentioned above.
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  Quote Rakhsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2005 at 00:22
Can you give me the link or source please Seko, thanks
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 22:55

The Moghals of Babur's time spoke in Chagatay Turkish, prayed in Arabic and were literate in Persian. -Nicholas Osler, Empires of the Word.



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  Quote Rakhsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 20:14

See I agree with you Zargos, I just want there claims of Turkish words and Turkism to have backing and not someone thinking it soo.

Since our Turkish cousins wish to claims things I want backing and also by non turkish sources too.

Sorry if I seem to be baiting I am not, I just want people to back things up.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 12:30
I think their language was wholly Persian, even though they were Turkomen.
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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 10:18
He probably mentions the Babur Empire times, but I don't have further info.

Edited by kotumeyil
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  Quote Rakhsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 07:00
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by Komnenos

After their common transit to North-Africa, distinctive Alan cultural elements disappeared as the Vandals were, for simple numerical reasons, the dominant element of their partnership.
There is hardly a mystery about all this.

are you kidding me? normal is that two cultures merge, look at India (Ordu language, mixture of Turko-Persian words an Hindu grammar). the complete dissapearing of one culture under another leads only to one conclusion...

and what the hel is this Vandals crusade about anyways? in my opinion Vandals reputation is well deserved and i don't see any reason to debunk any myths. don't forget that todays history books are more or less based on the opinion and research of 19th century nationalists historians, thats why Charlemagne the Butcher is a hero in France and Germany.

Turkish words??? Give an example please of Turkish words in Hindi langauge
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