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Accuracy of the History Channel

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Loknar View Drop Down
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  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Accuracy of the History Channel
    Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 03:00

http://www.historychannel.com/timeline/index.jsp?year=1590

 

First I want all of you to scroll down and read carefully the descriptions having to do with Asian history.

 

 

 

In case you missed it, I'll quote it

Japan's dictator Hideyoshi invades Korea, but the Japanese fleet is ravaged by a Chinese ironclad.

What the hell is this?

"a Chinese IronClad"?

The CHinese navy did not arrive until the end of the war. By this time there were no turtle ships as all had been lost. 

There is more to this than mere wording. The actual description (Chinese or not) seems to indicate that only 1 ironclade actually stopped the Japanese. THis is a total myth. The Koreans had hundreds of ships and developed tatics of their own and fought the war entirely on their own save for 1 or 2 battles with the CHinese. (I am speaking about the navy, not the army)

Leave it to us westerners to completely brush over Asian history, it to completely mess up on it.

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  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 03:01
I thought the Koreans had those superb turtleships commanded by Admiral Yi!

Edited by poirot
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  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 03:22

Yes Yi Soon Shin used the turtle ships during his first campaigns (interestingly, he did not use it in his very first naval battle), but after the Korean navy lost all but 13 of its ships, the turtleship was never rebuilt (at least not during the war).



Edited by Loknar
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  Quote Dalsung Hwarang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 22:46
What is this madness!? The ironclad known as the Turtle Ship was made by the Koreans under the leadership of Admiral Lee Soon Shin... Someone should go and point this thing out to the History Channel... They've really got this all screwed up! 
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 05:34
history channel is full of misconceptions really its quite crap and the reinactments are silly
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  Quote Beijingguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 11:43

I agree, Korean navy especially under LiShunChen played vital role during the invasion of  the Japanese, he didnt receive the honor of Korea's greatest national hero for no reason.

I think the same sort of thing cant be said to that of WW2 Sino-Japanese war, which someone have suggested that if it was not for participation of the Amercians and their decisive victory over Japan in the Asia-Pacific scene, then China could not have assured its own victory over Japan.

But thats little ignorant and simple-minded perhaps, as well before pearl habour, Chinese were already busy fighting the Japanese, and that some 80% of the Japanese military were deployed in China, even as the war with America got intense, the military deployed in China is still well over 70%. And thats probably why 75% of Japan's war dead during WW2 which's worshiped in the "famous" "Yasukuni Shrine" were killed by the Chinese.

And such man like LiShunChen deserves to be honored and celebrated, for he somewhat is the korean equivalent of the famous Chinese general YueFei(some Japanese see him as China's number 1 general), both were characterized by their bravery in face of strong enemy, brilliance in execution of military affairs, and both were patriots, thats no coincidence to see that both were "suspected" by the court and received unjust treatments, though Li perhaps is luckier than Yue, as Li was killed during battle, whereas Yue was arrested and executed by corrupted officals at execution ground, definitely not a soldier'way of death..

 



Edited by Beijingguy
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 12:10

History Channel blows, period.  Its really the Hitler Channel and all their news is "today in history Hitler did this, or Hitler did that..."

I swear they are run by a bunch of Nazis in exile.  Every single show is about Nazis or D Day.  There is practically no history before WW2 at all.  What isnt about Hitler is like shwos that are practically advertisements and PR campaings for Lokheed-Martin. 

Now back in the day they had this great series called Civil War Combat that was all gory and bloody reiactmetns with limbs getting blown off and everything.  Still though they are always bad at non-US history and they reflect the general trend among Americans to only care about their own history.

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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 15:46
Originally posted by Beijingguy

I agree, Korean navy especially under LiShunChen played vital role during the invasion of  the Japanese, he didnt receive the honor of Korea's greatest national hero for no reason.

I think the same sort of thing cant be said to that of WW2 Sino-Japanese war, which someone have suggested that if it was not for participation of the Amercians and their decisive victory over Japan in the Asia-Pacific scene, then China could not have assured its own victory over Japan.

But thats little ignorant and simple-minded perhaps, as well before pearl habour, Chinese were already busy fighting the Japanese, and that some 80% of the Japanese military were deployed in China, even as the war with America got intense, the military deployed in China is still well over 70%. And thats probably why 75% of Japan's war dead during WW2 which's worshiped in the "famous" "Yasukuni Shrine" were killed by the Chinese.

And such man like LiShunChen deserves to be honored and celebrated, for he somewhat is the korean equivalent of the famous Chinese general YueFei(some Japanese see him as China's number 1 general), both were characterized by their bravery in face of strong enemy, brilliance in execution of military affairs, and both were patriots, thats no coincidence to see that both were "suspected" by the court and received unjust treatments, though Li perhaps is luckier than Yue, as Li was killed during battle, whereas Yue was arrested and executed by corrupted officals at execution ground, definitely not a soldier'way of death..

 

 

I am interested, do you have any links about Yue? I would like to read about him.

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  Quote Dalsung Hwarang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 20:11
Well anyways there are some cool things on the History Channel... such as Mail Call andd Band of Brothers YAYYYYUHHHHHH!
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  Quote jiangweibaoye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2005 at 10:34
Originally posted by Beijingguy

I agree, Korean navy especially under LiShunChen played vital role during the invasion of  the Japanese, he didnt receive the honor of Korea's greatest national hero for no reason.

I think the same sort of thing cant be said to that of WW2 Sino-Japanese war, which someone have suggested that if it was not for participation of the Amercians and their decisive victory over Japan in the Asia-Pacific scene, then China could not have assured its own victory over Japan.

But thats little ignorant and simple-minded perhaps, as well before pearl habour, Chinese were already busy fighting the Japanese, and that some 80% of the Japanese military were deployed in China, even as the war with America got intense, the military deployed in China is still well over 70%. And thats probably why 75% of Japan's war dead during WW2 which's worshiped in the "famous" "Yasukuni Shrine" were killed by the Chinese.

And such man like LiShunChen deserves to be honored and celebrated, for he somewhat is the korean equivalent of the famous Chinese general YueFei(some Japanese see him as China's number 1 general), both were characterized by their bravery in face of strong enemy, brilliance in execution of military affairs, and both were patriots, thats no coincidence to see that both were "suspected" by the court and received unjust treatments, though Li perhaps is luckier than Yue, as Li was killed during battle, whereas Yue was arrested and executed by corrupted officals at execution ground, definitely not a soldier'way of death..

 

Agree with the Korean Ship.  Not Chinese.  Its a Turtle ship, not Ironclad.

There are many misinformation on the History Channel.  However, it is a good platform to learn about History of other countries.  But this incident and many others to follow should make all realize that in order to get a true picture of Historical events, one must get facts from various sources with different opinions to truly appreciate these historical events and inaccuracies.

Jiangwei

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2005 at 00:14
The History channel is after all a commercial channel, so its prone to sensationalism, and often the producers themselves don't know much about the subject (they got the job because they can make programs, not because they know history).
Still its not all, bad, some formats make for great informative shows, like Time Team, that they have in the UK, basicly 'live' televised archeological digs, presented by Tony Robinson (of Baldrick fame), that basicly reveals archeology for what is, tedious hard work, but yet reveals suprising discoveries as well as informing people of good history (not sensationalist stuff), even humble relativly insiginficant digs can be intresting. Plus it brings much needed funds to acheologicl digs, which is good.

If it gets people intrested, its a good thing i guess. Still, personaly i'd rather watch very well made historical drams, like the BBC/HBO Rome one (if it lives up to the hype) that is due to start in November (the Yanks have seen it already ).
Did i mention that Indira Varma is in it?
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2005 at 00:45
Originally posted by Loknar

Japan's dictator Hideyoshi invades Korea, but the Japanese fleet is ravaged by a Chinese ironclad.

I don't know which is more hilarious -- calling it a CHINESE ironclad or saying ONE Chinese ironclad defeated the Japanese.

Can we report these things to History Channel?  I mean there are things that are debatable, and then there are obvious typos.

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  Quote Turkic10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 15:28

Anyone out there that views both the US and Canadian History Channels? If so, how do they compare?        

 One story that I found interesting on the Canadian one was about the Japanese atomic bomb research. It involved two separate groups, one in Tokyo and the other in Northeastern Korea. The surviving papers seem to indicate that the Tokyo one would have been a dead end due to a math mistake and the site was destroyed by American bombing. Survivors from the one in Korea claim that a device was tested on an island near the research site. It's unlikely North Korea would allow anyone to go to the island to verify the claim. The Japanese removed much of the equipment before the Russians got there. The Russians removed what was left. Unfortunately, no surviving papers have come to light regarding the work done there. 



Edited by Turkic10
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 23:31
Theres speculation on how far the Germans got too, even a claim that they actualy tested one on an island in the North sea.
The whole thing is very sensationalist though.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Turkic10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2005 at 00:03

Originally posted by Cywr

Theres speculation on how far the Germans got too, even a claim that they actualy tested one on an island in the North sea.
The whole thing is very sensationalist though.

According to another documentary regarding the Allies rush to capture German scientists, the german nuclear research atomic reactor was found and was quite small and the likelyhood of a German bomb, other than a dirty explosive bomb with nuclear materials on board was about the only danger. The most important find was a hoard of uranium which the Americans shipped home for use in their own Atomic bomb manufacturing.

The best stuff the Germans provided was tape recording technology, (we were still using wire recorders) rocket scientists and aircraft research which was years ahead of the rest of the world.

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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2005 at 18:05
and thanks to them, to the moon we go.. while the all-american rocket falls apart-_-

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  Quote Turkic10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 14:07

Check this site out for and idea as to what the German aircraft industry was studying for the future during the war. The rest of the world was in the "Iron Age" by comparison.

http://www.luft46.com/

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 19:10

Well, History Channel is focused on the Occidental history, so you shouldn't expect to learn Asian history in an European historical site.

Originally posted by Loknar

Yes Yi Soon Shin used the turtle ships during his first campaigns (interestingly, he did not use it in his very first naval battle), but after the Korean navy lost all but 13 of its ships, the turtleship was never rebuilt (at least not during the war).

Well, the thing is that Turtle ships were modified versions of Pan-ok ships- ships that had 3 floors, high enough to prevent lower japanese ships from using bording tactics.  Actually Turtle ships were basically Pan-ok ships with a roof, plated with iron, with a carved dragon face in the front.

So after Yi got back from his undeserving exile, when he had only 13 ships, Nan-joong-il-kee (Yi's diary) mentions stuffs like how he repaired them and made turtle ships out of them.  The fact is that koreans just decided to use the term turtle ship and pan-ok interchangeably.  The real number of turtleships rebuilt - I am not sure - although if I am correct, there was at least one turtle ship in the last naval battle where Yi died.

Grrr..
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  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2005 at 14:19
Originally posted by demon

Well, History Channel is focused on the Occidental history, so you shouldn't expect to learn Asian history in an European historical site.

Originally posted by Loknar

Yes Yi Soon Shin used the turtle ships during his first campaigns (interestingly, he did not use it in his very first naval battle), but after the Korean navy lost all but 13 of its ships, the turtleship was never rebuilt (at least not during the war).

So after Yi got back from his undeserving exile, when he had only 13 ships, Nan-joong-il-kee (Yi's diary) mentions stuffs like how he repaired them and made turtle ships out of them.  The fact is that koreans just decided to use the term turtle ship and pan-ok interchangeably.  The real number of turtleships rebuilt - I am not sure - although if I am correct, there was at least one turtle ship in the last naval battle where Yi died.

. Are you sure? The turtle ships were also known as Kobuksun (spelling?) The ships werent cheap to build either because of the iron required. I've never read an example of this ship being used after his turtle ships were all lost.

When the battle or Noryang took place (Yi's last) he managed to rebuild his navy to almost 100 ships. It 's certainly possible but I dont know for sure.

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2005 at 15:03

My point was that after the destruction of the korean navy, the koreans decided to call the remaining ships turtle ships.  Not necessarily because they were, but who knows.  It just happened.  Some time after the destruction, there was a battle between around 200 japanese ships lured into a rocky fast current strait (Myong Ryang) with 13 ships (that survived the onslaught during the destruction), where Yi miraculously defeated the enemy ships.   There were no turtle ships there.

Are you sure? The turtle ships were also known as Kobuksun (spelling?) The ships werent cheap to build either because of the iron required. I've never read an example of this ship being used after his turtle ships were all lost

No-i wasn't sure.  Just looked it up and figured out that turtle ships weren't used during Noryang. 

But it's not like the ships were not cheap to build; Yi was actually building his ships out of his volunteers before and during the war, not by the government (he was basically running his own kingdom during the war, making food supplies, weapons, reparations and all that). Korean ships were flat on the bottom, making them able to land on sandy beaches- making all shores virtually dry docks.  Also back then, there weren't a lot of deforestation going on- right in front of the shore there would be a plentiful supply of trees available. 

And the iron was merely used on the roof cover.  It is argued that it were the use of pine trees; 73 percent of turtle ships were pine trees, often 12cm++ thick.  Unlike other trees these threes were fibrous.

Also, turtle ship's backbones were all made out of wood; they were fit like lego blocks rather than the usage of iron nails.  This made them effective sea rams, while for the japanese, not only would iron nails fall off during ships to ship collisions, it would rust in sea water, debilitating the ship as a whole in consecutive years.

Well, that's the basics of turtle ship. And they are called Kobukson (Go-book son in korean)

There were 3 turtle ships during the entire 7 year war.  Destroyed during Yi's exile.

During Young Jo (early-mid 1700's), korea had 14 turtle ships

During Jung Jo(late 1700's to 1800), korea had 40 turtle ships.

 

Grrr..
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