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Indian civilisation and culture - Please post info

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indian civilisation and culture - Please post info
    Posted: 04-Oct-2005 at 19:37

I think India for all of its achievements and contributions to civilisation has been neglected for far too long on these forums. I am making this thread so that members knowledgable to the subject can post information from various eras of Indian civilisation.

For example, I know that Indian astronomers calculated the Earth's diameter to within 1% in antiquity and that Indians invented what we call Arabic numerals to manifest the immense numbers with relation to Hindu religious concepts. Although I have a wide range of knowledge about Indian history, it is very shallow.

 



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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2005 at 22:32
I have only a limited idea but with the help of Wikipedia and a search engine we may be able to recreate some basic chronology:

Neolithic: earliest is Mehrgarh culture (Baluchistan). They worked precious stones as lapislazuli  and polished copper and they have the earliest examples of dentistry (see: http://mehrgarh.webpal.info/mehrgarh/index.php?option=com_co ntent&task=view&id=13&Itemid=2 ).

Mehrgarh site?

It reached Chalcolithic and later was abandoned.

Indus Valley Civilization: (Bronze Age).

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization


Map of the Indus Civilization.


The famous great bath or swimming pool of Mohenjo-Daro

It seems that they spoke Dravidian and that they had a large public sector. The basics of Hinduist religion can be traced to this major ancient civilization dated 2800-1800 BCE.

They traded with Summer, where it was known as Meluha. It's thought that the Vedic despective term mlecha (nigger) comes from that name.


The famous seal of Pashupati, the lord of the beasts, considered a proto-Shiva.

Vedic Age: It was assumed that an Indo-Aryan migration was what destroyed the Indus civilization and replaced it with the Vedic one. But this theory is now deemed "colonialist" and challenged by some in India. Yet no good alternatives have been suggested, as the proposed counter-theory of an Indian origin for IEs is not acceptable however you look at it.

Thought this is often called Vedic Civilization, no cities have been found. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_civilization for more details.


Map of the Vedic culture, showing Vedic tribes/realms in black and non-Vedic tribes in purple. Green names refer to Vedic schools and the orange area is nothing but the Thar desert.

It is assumed that it was in this period when Dravidian languages entered the south of of India, pressed by the Indo-Aryans. It is also assumed that the hierarchical caste system was created at this time. IE Vedic religion would later recede before surviving forms of the more pure original Hinduism. Yet the caste system perdurated.

Middle Kingdoms: from the 6th century BCE to the Islamic invasions. By 600 BCE several kingdoms existed in Northern India, including Maghada, Kosala, Kuru and Gandhara.

At this time the NW region became under the domination of Persia untile the time of Alexander. At that time Maghada rose to hegemony under Chadragupta, founding the Mauryan Empire. His grandson Ashoka (273-232 BCE) brought this empire to its greatest extent.


The Empire of Ashoka.

After the desintegration of the Mauryan Empire, other kingdoms took place. Most important may be the Indo-Greek kingdom of Bactria in the NW. They were invaded by the Scythians (Sakas) and then by Parthians, who created the kingdom of Kushana.

At this time the Satavahana kingdom arose in the Deccan, serving as cultural bridge between the north and the south.


Satavahana coin.

In the South several Dravidic kingdoms arose too: Chera, Chola and Pandya.

Roman silver coins have been found in several places and it's thought that they had some merchant outposts and even that Pagan exiles found refuge there, influencing the latter Indian art.

C. 320, the Gupta Empire arose reunifying Northern India. C. 500 they were conquered by the White Huns.


Silver Gupta coin.


Hun coin (NW)

Gupta demise seemingly favored the role of Southern India and the recovery of Hinduism that had been overshadowed by Buddhism. Two main realms fighted for hegemony: Chalukya and Pallava kingdoms. A third realm, the Pandya kingdom also intervened.

Islamic Period: The first Muslim outposts were stabilished as early as 711, but the true conquest wouldn't begin until three centuries later, when Mahmud of Ghazni initiated a series of incursions that created a a base in Punjab from where future conquest would start. The main Muslim state, the Delhi Sultanate was stabilished by Turco-Afgan warlords in 1210. It expanded to almost all Northern India and helped the creation of nmerous minor sultanates.

It's main Hinduist rival maybe was the Viyajanagara Empire of Southern India, that controled the maritime routes to the spice islands and the precious stones of Gondwana. It was defeated by a coalition of the 5 Deccan Sultanates, descendants of the more glorious Bahmanid Sultanate, in 1565. After that Viyajanagar only survived as a shadow of what it had been: the peak of Indian ilustration and the last great Hindu state before Modern India.

Modern Period: Since 1526 Mughals would invade Delhi and other states of India. They would took over the Sultanate of Delhi.

Since 1680 they were fought by the Hinduist Mahratha Confederacy. They achieved total military success over Delhi in the 18th century but were evetually defeated by Afgans at Panipat in 1761. This would cause the desintegration of both states and the appearences of new ones such as the Nizam of Hyderabad and he Sikh Kingdom. But the overall winner was Britain.

Most info from Wikipedia. I just put it together.



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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 03:01
Ok Maju's already posted my area of expetise, i'll just have to find something else. *off to find pretty pictures*

Cyrus, can we have this added to the main page, its kind of empty for India and SE Asia.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 03:19
Originally posted by Anujkhamar

Ok Maju's already posted my area of expetise, i'll just have to find something else. *off to find pretty pictures*

Cyrus, can we have this added to the main page, its kind of empty for India and SE Asia.


It was just intended to mark a general timeline on which to discuss more specific issues. In fact, I just synthetized some info I found over there. Before you make any article of it give it a good review. I'm sure you can add much more to the topic and probably correct some inacuracies.

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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 04:57
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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 05:04
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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 05:15

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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 05:16
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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 05:17

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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 05:18
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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 05:21
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 11:34

India is one of the greatest gems of civilization in the world.  I heartily recommend the book India: a History by John Keay which is very long and detailed from prehistory to 1990, with pictures too.

I read it all during class periods for evolutionary biology in freshmen year, quite good.  Someday I will go to India..actually someday soon Ill go to Mumbai on my semester at sea study abroad program.

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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 12:24

Thanks, nice pictures.

What about a timeline of Hinduism? That is, how it shifted and changed over the millenia and the various concepts within.

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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 16:45
I've started work on my article i'll post in this thread. I'll basically fill in anything i feel maju's left out when he posted above (which as far as can tell is hardly anything) and then go to work on the various parts of indian history from the colourful to the relativly recent dark times.

This should take me till.....lets see.....tomorow evening British Summer Time.

After that i'll work on a hindu one.

I figured it's about time i finally gave back to the AE community


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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2005 at 12:17
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 11:05

Originally posted by Anujkhamar

I've started work on my article i'll post in this thread. I'll basically fill in anything i feel maju's left out when he posted above (which as far as can tell is hardly anything) and then go to work on the various parts of indian history from the colourful to the relativly recent dark times.

This should take me till.....lets see.....tomorow evening British Summer Time.

After that i'll work on a hindu one.

I figured it's about time i finally gave back to the AE community

I am sure there is plenty left out of Maju's post, I want to have scientific advancement info and atrology stuff here in detail.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 11:06
Originally posted by katulakatula

Timeline of Hinduism

http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/hindu/timeline.htm

Thanks, that was the sort of thing I was looking for.

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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 12:10
JYOTISH or VEDIC ASTROLOGY - A BRIEF INTRO

by Prash & Veno


Vedic astrology is the modern name for an ancient system of astrology known in Sanskrit as "Jyotish" - "Jyoti" being light and "isha" being lord. Jyotish thus translates into "the Lord of Light" or "the Knowledge of Light". Modern science now confirms that all matter/physical universe is based upon light and its interplays which would make Jyotish "the science of light".

Vedic Astrology is a science dating back to more than 5000 years. Its earliest origins can however be traced back to the beginning of the manifest Universe. It passed down through the ages as an orally transmitted knowledge and formed an important part of the Vedas, one of the prime manuscripts containing the spiritual tradition of India.

Vedic Scriptures known as 'Vedas' describe Jyotish as 'the Eye of the Vedas'. The world is always there but we cannot see it without our eyes - in the same way Jyotish is the light which illumines the universal knowledge encapsulated in the Vedas.

The Ancient Sages who according to Vedic Mythology are the mind born sons of Brahma (one of the Trinity, the Creator of the Universe in Vedic Mythology), were privy to the secrets and functionings of the Universe and transmitted their knowledge orally to their disciples.

The instructions of one such Sage by the name of Parashara were put into text around 3000 years ago. These writings form the backbone of present day Vedic Astrology.

Vedic Astrology is thus the earliest form of Astrology and is a system that has changed very little over the course of time. Its precision and accuracy as a divination science is unrivalled even today.

Its western counterpart, known as Western Astrology has its roots in the Roman civilisation. The Romans derived it from the Greeks who in turn derived it from the Egyptians.

Many scholars now believe that Astrology travelled to Egypt through the middle east (Babylonian culture). Babylonians had a strong connection with the Vedic civilisation flourishing in the northwestern region of the Indian subcontinent and so it can be said that their Astrology was very similar if not completely identical to Jyotish.

The modern day Western Astrology was deeply influenced by the Theosophical Movement. Theosophists as we know were channelling their information from the East - mainly India and Tibet. Somehow over the last century many faults crept into this evolving system such as the use of the astronomically inaccurate Tropical Zodiac.

Tropical Zodiac used in Western Astrology was relevant 2000 years ago but is no longer valid. There is no point in analysing a chart which does not correspond to the actual heavenly positions of the planets and signs. It is similar to playing music on an out of tune instrument!

Vedic Astrology is much more extensive and vast than its western counterpart. It is unquestionably the foremost among all divination methods and sciences.

It requires a serious and deep study with an open attitude from all the intellectual and inquisitive minds to uncover its magic. To all the critics of Astrology we suggest that they take a good look at the functionings of Vedic Astrology before they dismiss it as nonsense.

History bears testament to the fact that the greatest scientific minds like Ptolemy, Newton and Galileo all practised Astrology.

It is interesting to note that Ancient Vedic Sages knew about most of the astronomical phenomena including the precession of the earth's axis thousands of years before modern astronomy came to know about it and used it in their calculations.

The present day Vedic Astrology is comprised of different systems delineated by different Sages, which are complementary to each other thereby adding to its richness.

Vedic Astrology covers every area of human existence and can give accurate results down to the minute. Vedic Astrology encompasses everything ranging from psychology, healing, prediction,religion and spirituality to everyday affairs.

Every birth is sacred and brings with it both positive and difficult karma which influence our Character, Talents, Relationships, Career ,Finance, Health and Spiritual nature.

There is nothing one cannot improve or change through greater self understanding and right application. Upon this foundation one can take responsibility for one's Self and direct one's life in a more positive and meaningful manner. Vedic Astrology helps you do exactly that.

We have an online course available for those who would like to explore this fascinating science from scratch - Click Here for Details



WESTERN ASTROLOGY - WHY IT IS NO LONGER RELEVANT!

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE VEDIC (SIDEREAL) ZODIAC AND THE WESTERN (TROPICAL) ZODIAC

It is important to know what differentiates Vedic Astrology from the more well known Western Astrology.

Vedic Astrology or Jyotish (its Sanskrit name meaning Jyoti - Light and Isha - Lord) is based upon the Sidereal Zodiac as opposed to the Tropical Zodiac used in Western Astrology.

Although the Sidereal Zodiac was used by Western Astrologers like Ptolemy in the beginning, over the course of time a more symbolic zodiac was adopted which is astronomically inaccurate.

This difference between the two zodiacs is called the "Ayanamsha". The Ayanamsha takes into account the revolution of the earth's axis, a phenomenon in Astrology known as the "precession of the equinoxes".

To explain this in the simplest way possible the earth spins(wobbles to be more precise) on its own axis in a conical motion and takes approximately 25,800 years to complete one revolution. It means that every 2000 years the position of the vernal or spring equinox, which marks the beginning point of the first sign of the zodiac Aries is always changing and moving forwards in time.

Consequently the pole star also changes every few thousand years as seen in the figure below.

When a person born today has the Sun at 10 degrees in Aries using the Tropical Zodiac, in actual astronomical reality the Sun will be 23 degrees backwards placed in the sign of Pisces.

For example when the Sun used to move into Aries on the 21st of March at 200 A.D. today it will enter the sign of Aries around the 14th of April. When the Sun moved into the sign of Scorpio on the 22nd October at 200 A.D. today it will enter the sign of Scorpio around the 14th of November.

This the reason why the present day
SUN-SIGN ASTROLOGY is COMPLETELY WRONG.
It is a complete joke in more ways than one - it has very little to do with Real Astrology. It is time that it was erased from public/media consciousness.

The Sidereal Zodiac used in Vedic Astrology is astronomically accurate because it takes the shifting of the earth's axis into account when calculating the longitudes of the planets and constellations.

The Tropical Zodiac used in Western Astrology is a Symbolic Zodiac based upon the position of the planets and constellations as they were in the sky 2000 years ago.

The Sidereal zodiac is the real zodiac as it actually appears in the sky at any given moment.

In order to convert a Western (tropical) horoscope into a Vedic (sidereal) horoscope one needs to subtract the current ayanamsa from the Tropical longitudes of the planets and signs to get their Sidereal positions. Because the earth's axis is always changing its position the ayanamsa changes slightly every year.

In January 1, 1900 the ayanamsa was 22 degrees 27 minutes 59 seconds.

Today the ayanamsa is 23?52' degrees.

There are various ayanamsas in use today. There are some disagreements on the actual measurement of the ayanamsa or longitudinal difference between the two zodiacs. The most popular and widely accepted ayanamsa in India was introduced by N.C. Lahiri. He calculates the precessional rate to be around 48 seconds per year.

http://www.osfa.org.uk/jyotish.htm

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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 13:48
yeah soz i didnt read you wanted it on scientific history. can't help you there much.

still going to make my post on indian history though, i'll jsut do it in a new thread.


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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 20:37
Well, I've been also interested in Astrology for a while and I must say that Jyotist arguments against Western astrology are meaningless: Western Astrology is geocentric and doesn't care about constellations but about the seasons of the year which are divided in three signs each. These signs do have the names given to some constellations some time ago but rather have the quality of the natural months (as for example reflected in Revolutionary French calendar), so Aries has to be always the first month of Spring because it is when things start (Germinal) and Leo must be the middle month of the Summer because it is when it's normally hotter.

Costellations do change in shape and position and anyhow they are nothing real: just constructs of the human mind, joining dots arbitrarily in the night sky.

In the only thing that I can give Vedic astrology some reason is in giving more importance to the Moon when describing each one's personality. The Moon is definitively more personal than the Sun but the Sun sign is more visible and embodies what Hindus call the Atman (in my own terms: willpower).

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