ACLU is supportive for prayer...

Any evidence that what you are saying is true, eaglecap?

I can also make unfounded statements like that:

Why are Republicans enriching their rich friends with no-contest contracts--this is, they give it without a competitive bid--in the aftermath of Katrina?

Oh, wait ia minute, that is true:

Investigators to monitor Katrina contracts LARA JAKES JORDAN Associated Press WASHINGTON - A team of investigators is being sent to the Hurricane Katrina-ravaged Gulf Coast to follow the money - namely, billions of dollars in relief aid the federal government is pouring into the region without normal contracting safeguards. The 30 Homeland Security Department investigators and auditors are part of what officials call an unprecedented effort to ensure federal funds are properly distributed in a rescue, relief and rebuilding process expected to exceed $100 billion. ... Some contracts, including five with emergency housing and construction companies, were awarded hurriedly without undergoing normal competitive bidding processes. Meanwhile, the Bush administration has waived prevailing wage requirements that ensure government-contracted workers in disaster areas are fairly compensated. Among the most controversial Katrina awards is one that the Homeland Security team cannot investigate: a $16.6 million contract with Kellogg, Brown & Root Services Inc. of Arlington, Va., for emergency repairs at Gulf Coast naval and Marine facilities. The money is part of a $500 million Navy contract that KBR won by competitive bid last July. Because the Pentagon awarded the KBR contract, Homeland Security has no authority to audit it. But KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has been at the center of scrutiny for receiving a five-year, no-bid contract to restore Iraqi oil fields shortly before the war began in 2003. Vice President Dick Cheney headed Halliburton from 1995 to 2000, and Democrats have questioned whether the company has gotten favorable treatment because of his connection.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/local/126309 77.htm

But let us not change topic of conversation.

You got to provide evidence that what you are claiming is true.

I just don't understand why you hate so much an organization who is dedicated to uphold civil liberties given by the U.S. Constitution.

You don't hate the U.S. or its Constitution. Why attacking its defenders then?

Originally posted by eaglecap ...with Muslim groups in public schools, but they have been fighting Christians for decades on the issue of private personal prayer on school grounds. Why is the ACLU supportive of one group but condeming of another, in reference to private prayer on school grounds? Why Hugo? Any recent news on this? It should apply to all groups and not single out another.

Agreed.  But hey, it's the ACLU, what else are they supposed to do?

Originally posted by hugoestr Any evidence that what you are saying is true, eaglecap? I can also make unfounded statements like that: Why are Republicans enriching their rich friends with no-contest contracts--this is, they give it without a competitive bid--in the aftermath of Katrina?

Well, unfortunately, this is what most Republicans, if not some Democrats as well, are all about in the 21st century.  They are both interested in expanding the government to bloated proportions, spending taxpayer money on useless things, and raking in maximum profit with huge corporations at any cost.  The Republicans just might be a bit more interested in corporate profit than the Democrats.

Ghengis,

Who is actually making money out of this, I or Halliburton?

Isn't Halliburton, Cheney's company, profiting out of the suffering of Katrina?

The company didn't have to compete to win government contracts. Isn't competition supposed to keep costs down? Why are Republicans betraying these principles?

What am I supposed to do, celebrate Bush and Cheney's companies's record profits, at the expense of the taxpayers?

Reagan said that welfare recipients drive luxury cars. They do: executives at Halliburton don't drive compacts.   Because when there isn't a competitive process to give contracts, what the government is doing is giving welfare to wealthy companies.

Finally, I will address the unsupported claims that started this thread once I see evidence that any part of it is true. As far as I can see, it is an political attack on defenders of the bill of rights by its enemies.

OMG, first the halal pizzaria, and now this!

See thread in the Tavern, its probably sunk to the previous pages by now. Actualy it might not have been a pizzaria but some other fast food joint, hmm, in France i think, no wait, it was a spooj at Burger king or something.

Please let's stay focused on the question. Why isn't the ACLU having a fit about this? I am sure if this was a Christian group they would be screaming. And please don't give me a list of the good things they have done because that is not the question. I can come up with a list of things they have done that is wrong so please keep the focus.
Here is one article from AP but the one that talks more about the ACLU I could not find but I will keep looking. I do agree that the school district should protect any student from harassment but if they acknowledge one's faith then they should do the same for other. What about the Buddhist, Hindus or whatever?


September 06, 2005
Prayer in public schools ok'd
Where is the ACLU, howling in protest? Evidently prayer in public schools is just fine, as long as it isn't Christian prayer. "Muslim parents seek cooperation from schools," from CNN, with thanks to all who sent this in:

CLIFFSIDE PARK, New Jersey (AP) -- Yasmeen Elsamra had a simple request: While her classmates were eating lunch, she wanted to go off by herself for a few moments to pray. ( I see nothing wrong with this as long as other groups are also allowed the same freedom.)
The 14-year-old was told she couldn't, and went home distraught that afternoon in October 2003. Praying five times a day is a cornerstone of her Muslim faith.

"If I wasn't allowed to pray my second prayer at school, I couldn't do it at home," she said. "When school finishes, the third prayer begins."

Her family contacted a Muslim advocacy group, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which asked the school district to reconsider. Eventually, the district acknowledged it had no policy preventing a student from praying on his or her own during free time, and allowed Yasmeen to use an empty classroom to unfurl her prayer rug, face Mecca and touch her head to the floor in a few moments of worship.

Her case was part of a nationwide grassroots effort by Muslim parents to make public schools more friendly and accommodating to Muslim students. The movement has gained strength since the September 11, 2001, terror attacks.

"The reality for many Muslim students in public schools is very difficult," said Ingrid Mattson, vice president of the Islamic Society of North America. "It's highly stressful."

She said her children were sometimes taunted in their Connecticut school district.

"The kids will say 'Hey Osama, do you have a bomb? Are you going to blow us up?"' she said. "My daughter has had people try to pull her head scarf off, or say 'What are you doing with that rag on your head?' But they have also had friends who defended them."

Noor Ennab, a fifth-grader who attends the private Muslim Al-Noor School in New York City, said she was driven out of her public school by post-September 11 harassment.

"Before that (the 2001 terror attacks) happened, we were treated so kind," she said. "Now it's like, 'You're a terrorist; get out of this country."'

Older students also have had problems. Debra Mason of Jersey City dropped out of Fairleigh Dickinson University's nursing program after she said she was told to remove her head covering during patient rounds. The New Jersey civil rights division recently found probable cause to proceed with an investigation into whether the school violated her rights. The school declined to comment.

Some school districts are starting to take notice. A zero-tolerance policy on harassment of Muslim students was adopted by Florida's Broward County school board in March 2003, just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

In February, Muslim community leaders led the Pledge of Allegiance at a San Antonio high school as part of a daylong conference on Islam.

Paterson, New Jersey, home of the state's largest Arab-American community, lets some students out of class early Fridays to attend prayers with their parents' permission, and is one of a handful of New Jersey districts that closes schools for Eid-al-Fitr, a Muslim religious holiday.

"You're seeing a lot of schools becoming more sensitive this way," said Michael Yaple, a spokesman for the New Jersey School Boards Association.

Bassima Mustafa, a civics teacher in Paterson, said it is crucial that students feel comfortable and welcome in the classroom.

"A majority of our students are immigrants or the children of immigrants," she said. "It's going to spread as the population increases."


Posted by Robert Spencer

Eaglecap,

First, this is a case of private prayer. You are in your right to pray to rocks if you like if it is for your own spiritual benefit.

The problem is administrative or teacher led group preayer.

In fact, millions of Christians get together during lunch at school and have prayer groups. There is nothing wrong with that since it is not being led by teachers or administrators.

The ACLU is not mentioned because no one requested help from the ACLU.

But just so that you see how the ACLU protects everyone's freedom of religion as granted in the constitution, read this press release from them:

ACLU Helps Free New Mexico Street Preacher From Prison       August 4, 2005 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact:media@aclu.org PORTALES, NM -- The American Civil Liberties Union of New Mexico today announced that it has succeeded in freeing street preacher Shawn Miller from the Roosevelt County jail. Miller was arrested last April after Portales police claimed he was yelling at passing cars, although Miller maintains he was merely �preaching the word of God.� �Mr. Miller has a guaranteed right to stand on a street corner and proclaim his faith in God to all who pass by,� said ACLU of New Mexico Executive Director Peter Simonson. �He wasn�t harassing or intimidating anyone. He certainly should not have spent time under lock and key for such a minor incident.� The ACLU became involved after Miller�s wife, Theresa, sent a letter requesting assistance. She and her two children had been with Miller on April 17 when he was arrested by Portales police for �disorderly conduct.� Miller had been preaching in the lot of an abandoned gas station that is commonly used by street vendors. �I was preaching the word of God and not hurting anybody,� said Miller. The ACLU�s defense of Miller produced an unlikely collaboration with the American Family Association, a group that is at times at odds with ACLU positions. Attorneys from both groups consulted with each other and Miller, working together to defend him on First Amendment grounds. �Both organizations are highly principled in their philosophies and policy positions,� said ACLU Staff Attorney George Bach. �Where those principles overlap, we are eager to collaborate.� Miller was released on bond and still faces charges of disorderly conduct, in addition to resisting arrest.

http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ReligiousLiberty.cfm?ID =18887&c=29

And here is a list of what they have recently done to defend freedom of religion. I will put in bold those cases where they defended Christian wanted to express their beliefs as individuals. Is it just me, or are the majority of them in defense of Christians?

December 22, 2004: ACLU of New Jersey successfully defends right of religious expression by jurors. December 14, 2004: ACLU joins Pennsylvania parents in filing first-ever challenge to �Intelligent Design� instruction in public schools. November 20, 2004: ACLU of Nevada supports free speech rights of evangelists to preach on the sidewalks of the strip in Las Vegas. November 12, 2004: ACLU of Georgia files a lawsuit on behalf of parents challenging evolution disclaimers in science textbooks. November 9, 2004: ACLU of Nevada defends a Mormon student who was suspended after wearing a T-shirt with a religious message to school. August 11, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska defends church facing eviction by the city of Lincoln. July 10, 2004: Indiana Civil Liberties Union defends the rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets. June 9, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska files a lawsuit on behalf of a Muslim woman barred from a public pool because she refused to wear a swimsuit. June 3, 2004: Under pressure from the ACLU of Virginia, officials agree not to prohibit baptisms on public property in Falmouth Waterside Park in Stafford County. May 11, 2004: After ACLU of Michigan intervened on behalf of a Christian Valedictorian, a public high school agrees to stop censoring religious yearbook entries. March 25, 2004: ACLU of Washington defends an Evangelical minister's right to preach on sidewalks. February 21, 2003: ACLU of Massachusetts defends students punished for distributing candy canes with religious messages. October 28, 2002: ACLU of Pennsylvania files discrimination lawsuit over denial of zoning permit for African American Baptist church. July 11, 2002: ACLU supports right of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at school. April 17, 2002: In a victory for the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the ACLU of Virginia, a federal judge strikes down a provision of the Virginia Constitution that bans religious organizations from incorporating. January 18, 2002: ACLU defends Christian church's right to run �anti-Santa� ads in Boston subways.

You see, you got the ACLU wrong. They defend Christians all the time.

I would be suspicious of your anti-ACLU sources. Not only are they against constitutionally given civil liberties, but they outright lie to pain the ACLU in a bad light.

http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ReligiousLiberty.cfm?ID =17598&c=38

Edited by hugoestr