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The origion of the Trks

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    Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 13:14
The origion of the Trks

Hi, all!

Here are something I want to discuss with you in this forum. I hope you all give your own opinions about this, thank you!

The history of Uyghurs is more complicated and more confused, even more interesting. And, I see the Taklemakan desert is where full of mystories, it is obviously the key to find out one great culture on earth. As we all discuss the origion of Trks, there are some distinct opinions. Some say the Trks were Mongolid people. The origional inhabetants of Central Asian Steppe were Iranic people, white ones, they had the same origion what the Europeans have. Because the discovery of the Kroran Beauty and Cherchen Man can prove this. After the Turkic occupation of the Central Asia, the arrival of Mongoliod people made the local ones has Mongolic blood. And that's why there still can be found some Uyghurs, or central Asian have Mongol looking. Some experts exmaing that the people of Central Asia have the three big origion of human, whites, Mongoliod, and Negro. I don't agree with this arguement as it doesn't has strong relialablity to believe in.

The other opposite argue about the origion of the Trks states that Trks were clearly Europoed people who had light skin, light hair, blue eyes. The reason why the Central Asian have Mongoliod elements is said to be that beacuse of the arrival of the Mongols. After Ghenggizhan took over the whole Central Asia, a great number of Mongols flooded through this area, and had the assimilation with the local people, thery were converted to Islam afterwords. And that made themselves not be able to keep their individuality. I'm not sure about this statement. Personally, I tend to the second one which makes the Turks more comfortable.

Here I have a hasitation if you can help me to make it clearify. The Uyghurs, Uzbeks, Turkmens have had a strong connection with Persians, Tajiks during the early history. So it's obvious that these Turkic nations undoubtly had Persian elements on their biological and cultural structure. We cannot avoid talking about Persians while we are talking about ourselves. However, what about Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs who had less connection with Persians, Arabs, or Chinese? Are they counted as purer Turks than Uyghurs and Uzbeks? How much percentage of European blood and Turkic blood do they have? If they are counted as pure Turkic people, does it make sense that the early Turks were Mongolid people?

Thankyou!
Rehmet.
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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 13:59
What the Turks and persians, others divides is genetical and fysical differences (like Trk kemikcigi on the back of youre head). 
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 14:19

Hello and welcome - YELKEN!

My educated guess would lead me to believe that ethnicities have been mixing around the steppes for eons. Where certain branches started from is beyond my speculation. Maybe various members could enlighten us on this.

Also, there have been various threads on the topic of racial purity. Have fun poking around to read a few of them.

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 14:37

I think we should stop to origin of Turks but we should think future of Turks.

do you think we can conquerer USA? They are p____g us at Iraq.

 



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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:05

Humor is good, p____g is a necessary bodily function.

Plus don't you think the US has enough toilets?



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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:14

Well, Infact they have more toilet than enough, but they love to p__s to others toilets or worse countries.

By the way, I am not serious. Even we are not agree at all points,  USA is our ally, but well, I think they should attack another country. I think our greek friends need more freedom. Their freedom is not enough for them. After all they are mother of democracy and freedom, and They love it much.

 

 

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:21
That will be enough on the jokes Mortaza, unless you want your post to enter the Dungeon.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:25

uh?

It looks like population of your dungeon will quickly increase. I think I didnt insult any race or any one. Did I?

 

 

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:29
Let's just say that there is a fine line between humor and a friendly jab. If taken the wrong way would lead to a flame war. Then the Dungeon would definitely fill up too quickly.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:31

oh, no I prefer Karamanlis to Bush. God protect Karamanlis!

I dont think our greek friends will angry to me not sure about americans.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 16:16

The other opposite argue about the origion of the Trks states that Trks were clearly Europoed people who had light skin, light hair, blue eyes.

That's a racist, wannabe claim. All races have their own beauties, dont need to have blue eyes to become "superior".

There are ancient graves in Mongolia and Central asia, where people with Mongoloid and Nordic-Europoid features were burried together. And that doesnt mean the origins of the steppe wariors were so, it means an obvious racial stereotype cannot be drawn for all and they've been mixing since the ancient times as a result of continuous immigrations and relations with other races.

Central Asia was Turkic before, the border btw Turks and Iranic people (Sogdians) was mavaraunnahr. East of it was the lands of steppe people, Turks. But if you mean Transoxania and beyond Mavarannahr (western Turkestan) being Turkified, well, it becomes with the Gokturks conquering Sogdiana.

Central Asia is a huge region and it was shared btw Turkic, Iranic, and Mongolic people (in the east) since ancient times. Firstly, Iranic people invaded Turkic lands (Scythians), then Turkic people invaded Iranic lands (Ak Huns). Todays Uzbekistan was the border btw Turkic and Iranic people (not Persians), so today, half of western Turkestan lies on ancient Iranic lands. But it doesnt mean the Mongoloid admixture came there with Turks or Mongols, Sogdians, Schythians all had important Mongoloid influence for sure. Tajiks and Afghans still have some.

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  Quote Sultan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 23:43
 
 To Yelken ,

 The Uyghurs , Uzbeks And Turkmen Were Infected Only Culturaly Not Biologicaly , Why You Are Not Talking About How Many The Turks And Mongolians Ruled The Persians Lands Which Is Iran Today And Infected Them For Years !

 The Turks Are Not Mongoliad But They Have The Same Roots And According To Some Turks Sources The Same Father But Some Of The Turk And Mongloian Groups Mixed Up With Each Others Like The Tatars , Tatar Is a Group From The Mongols But They Mixed Too Much With The Other Near Turks Tribes Until They Now Knows As Turks And So On , Why Do People Always Trying To Relate Turks With Other Races ?! The Europeans Claims That The Huns Are Not Turks But Europeans ! Because They Cant Accept That Other Race Can Beat Them In Thier Own Ground Like What Attila Have Done With Them And The Chinese Now Trying To Relate Everything Uyghur And Mongolian To Its Own History To Claim That InnerMongolia And Eastern Turkistan Belongs To Them And The Persians Always Claims That Uzbkes And Turkmen Have a Persian Blood ! This is nonsense.

 Central Asia And Big Parts Of China And All Russia Belongs To The Turks And The Mongols , To Tell The Truth Its Our Fault That Our People Were Warriros Fighting Each Others And The Others Rather Than Writting Our Own History.

 Again, Anyone Who Is Interested In The Turks And Mongols History Please Try To Find Some Turk Or Mongolian BooksNot Chinese Or Persian.



Edited by Sultan
Turkistan is a door to two worlds,
Turkistan is a cradle of the Turks,
Living in beautiful Turkistan
Is Tengri's blessing to the Turks.

FREEDOM FOR EASTERN TURKISTAN
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  Quote AydoluAtsiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 10:51

well i kinda disagree with that. if you wanna study history you have to look at all the available sources. that includes what the chinese persians greeks and arabs and whoever else wrote. though i agree with one thing. Turks did make history but they never wrote alot of it unfortunately.

its up to the reader to be unbiased and deternine what happened. and you cant look at similarities alone to prove something or dissimilarities alone to disprove something. one must look at the whole and judge it as a whole. if you are selective and or ignorant about the sources you study from then your conclusion will be incomplete and it wont represent the whole truth.

Trk duygusu her Trkye en tatl kmzdr;
Trk lks candan da aziz bayramzdr...
Darbeyle gnllerde yatan lk silinmez!
Atsz yere dmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!...
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  Quote Sultan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 20:08
Originally posted by AydoluAtsiz

well i kinda disagree with that. if you wanna study history you have to look at all the available sources. that includes what the chinese persians greeks and arabs and whoever else wrote. though i agree with one thing. Turks did make history but they never wrote alot of it unfortunately.

its up to the reader to be unbiased and deternine what happened. and you cant look at similarities alone to prove something or dissimilarities alone to disprove something. one must look at the whole and judge it as a whole. if you are selective and or ignorant about the sources you study from then your conclusion will be incomplete and it wont represent the whole truth.

 Yes You Are Right , They Have To Read All The Books From Many Different View But i Am Asking That They Must Also Read Books Written By Uyghurs , Turks Not Only Chinese, Thats All.

 

Turkistan is a door to two worlds,
Turkistan is a cradle of the Turks,
Living in beautiful Turkistan
Is Tengri's blessing to the Turks.

FREEDOM FOR EASTERN TURKISTAN
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  Quote Sultan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 20:11
Originally posted by Sultan

Originally posted by AydoluAtsiz

well i kinda disagree with that. if you wanna study history you have to look at all the available sources. that includes what the chinese persians greeks and arabs and whoever else wrote. though i agree with one thing. Turks did make history but they never wrote alot of it unfortunately.

its up to the reader to be unbiased and deternine what happened. and you cant look at similarities alone to prove something or dissimilarities alone to disprove something. one must look at the whole and judge it as a whole. if you are selective and or ignorant about the sources you study from then your conclusion will be incomplete and it wont represent the whole truth.

 Yes You Are Right , They Have To Read All The Books From Many Different View But i Am Asking That They Must Also Read Books Written By Uyghurs , Turks Not Only Chinese, Thats All.

 And Its True That Its Too Hard Now To Find Good Books Written By Real Turks About Turkistan The West And The East After What The Russians And Chinese Made In That Land By Destroying All The Historical Books And Documents.

Turkistan is a door to two worlds,
Turkistan is a cradle of the Turks,
Living in beautiful Turkistan
Is Tengri's blessing to the Turks.

FREEDOM FOR EASTERN TURKISTAN
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  Quote AydoluAtsiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 02:13
ahh ok i agree with that. of course we have to look at stuff written by uygurs and and other turks. you are right that the chinese and the russians did a lot of damage to the culture and also executed alot if not all of the educated elite.    but all was not lost and relations are better with russia.    so hopefully in the future it will be the same with china.
Trk duygusu her Trkye en tatl kmzdr;
Trk lks candan da aziz bayramzdr...
Darbeyle gnllerde yatan lk silinmez!
Atsz yere dmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!...
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  Quote Hak-Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 10:10
Originally posted by YELKEN




Here I have a hasitation if you can help me to make it clearify. The Uyghurs, Uzbeks, Turkmens have had a strong connection with Persians, Tajiks during the early history. So it's obvious that these Turkic nations undoubtly had Persian elements on their biological and cultural structure. We cannot avoid talking about Persians while we are talking about ourselves. However, what about Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs who had less connection with Persians, Arabs, or Chinese? Are they counted as purer Turks than Uyghurs and Uzbeks? How much percentage of European blood and Turkic blood do they have? If they are counted as pure Turkic people, does it make sense that the early Turks were Mongolid people?

Thankyou!
Rehmet.



turks had  no relationship with other nationalities, especially greeks, armenians, arabs,persians

so you cant proove your idea anymore
we mixed with;
kazaks
turkmens
ozbeks
saha's
samis
kyrgiz
and other turkic countries

some turks in center asia also mixed with mongols who are not turkic


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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 11:10

what all of this race doing in anatolia? Our nation still have arabs, albanians, bosnians, or bulgarians. I am sure some of armenians and greeks converted too. Not they call themself as Turk and other race in turkey. So I dont know what is the meaning of Turk you mention? It looks like It does not mean, citizen of Turkey.

 

 

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 15:50
Originally posted by Mortaza

what all of this race doing in anatolia? Our nation still have arabs, albanians, bosnians, or bulgarians. I am sure some of armenians and greeks converted too. Not they call themself as Turk and other race in turkey. So I dont know what is the meaning of Turk you mention? It looks like It does not mean, citizen of Turkey.

No, the word Turk is derived from Turuk, which specifies Turkic peoples. Turkic peoples in Turkestan called themselves Uyghur, Kipchak, Kazakh, etc, but people in Turkey call themself Turk, while many have mingled with other ethnicities. That doesn't change that fact they have Turkish blood, but Turk as in 'citizen of Turkey' is one sided. Turkic peoples in Central Asia have more right to call themselves Turk than Turks in Turkey. It was the Russians that made them call themselves 'Turkic'

 

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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 15:56
let's say it's not a right but willingles.I call myself as Turk but an Uzbek call him/herself as Uzbek it's their choice
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