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Topic ClosedChina is Multiracial and Chinggis is a Chinese Hero, Period!

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Sultan
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: China is Multiracial and Chinggis is a Chinese Hero, Period!
    Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 19:51
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Pretorian
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 23:13
Hi Chono
Thanks once more for your enlightening replies to my posts.
I do a lot of business in Ulan Bataar , and would one day like to have the opportunity to buy you a beer and good lunch or dinner.
Please remark on my statement that:
The Khalkhas are the weakest of all mongols for they had to invite Kangxi and his Manchus to protect them against Galdan.
I think the person of Galdan or Esen Khongtaiji still strike
terror into your and every Khalkha's heart.
Let me tell you one thing, Bud, many of you Khalkas
degrade themselve so low to earn a few dollars or renminbi
. That CK would turn in his grave today.
Remember the scene in the TV series where CK got upset about a Mongol selling himself as a slave?
I am not saying that the Chinese govt is perfect, they too have their faults and weaknesses, but I am quite amazed by your sheer arrogance , distortions and contradictions.
The Mongol people are a proud people with a proud and glorious history, the PRC today, is the perfect legacy of CK and his lineage.
The "Mongolian Republic" to the north of the PRC is the legacy of one of the biggest betrayals of history, the Yalta Conference.

r's
Clive



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 23:27

The PRC today, with its Han ethnocentrism and 'everyone's Chinese' attitude is the 'perfect legacy' of CK and his lineage? man...to be the perfect legacy of the mongol empire you have to be a mongol.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 11:13
I do not agree with you:
a. Genghis appointed people based on their skills and loyalty rather than race, perfect example Yeliu Chu Tsai
b. Kublai did the same with Phagspa
c. Mongols in the PRC had never had it better, my wife
is Kharachin, and her family in Liaosi, has :
i. 5 bedroom house
ii. two cars ( one audi and volkswagen polo classic)
iii. a big ranch with horses , cattle, and short tailed sheep.
iv. her two brothers are in Freiburg Germany, pursuing their
Doctor degrees in chemistry and microbiology.
v. Her retired father used to be a senior VP at Ordos Ltd.
vi. Mengke Bateer , a mongol from PRC made it big in the USA in basketball with the Rockets. He has returned to China and has contributed a big sum of money to build
a new middle school in his hometown in Inner mongolia.

vii. Professor Ukele PHD, son of the late Ulanfu, one of
my business partners is chairman of the Bank of Inner Mongolia, studied under the famous rocket scientist Qian
Xue Shen and proposed the commercial launching of satellites by China's long march rockets. Now he and me are heavily involved in the prospecting for natural gas in
the Mongolian Republic.

VIII. Professor Chi Bulage , the most world known Moriin
Khuur expert resides in Beijing and is also adjunct professor in the University of Ulan Bataar.

IX. China spent millions and is continuing to spend millions expanding the Genghis Khan Mausoleum in Eijin Horo in the Ordos Region,seat of the Chahar.
Last april there was a big celebration there with many guests from the Khalkha community in Outer Mongolia.

How can you say that the PRC is Han centrist? This is
an extremely false statement . If this were true
mongols would have long been gone from china.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 17:17

Look, here is my view.

I won't give any **** or anything about he is my hero, as long as it is not interpreted further. 

Like I don't like how China goes like "since that guy is our hero, his land is ours"

 

Grrr..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 10:20

This is rediculous... It is as if America is claiming Tecumseh as their hero just because Shawnees are living under American rule in the current times!!!

Genghis Khan viewed China as an enemy who was turning Mongols against eachother through diplomacy! Plus he massacred a great number of Chinese after conquest. When he did conquer some parts of it, he said to his descendants to never live in houses like the Chinese, but live in gers (tents) as their mongol ansestors had always done, thus never accepting the Chinese culture.

If Yuan was so Chinese why were there anti-Mongol rebellions that lead to the establishment of Ming?

According to what you say, if PRC conquers Japan, then they will soon be declaring Tojo their hero.

Hitler taught his people that Genghis Khan is an Aryan conqueror... why can't be be Chinese?

By the way I dislike Genghis Khan... he was a mass-murderer and killed off whole populations of cities. Mongols followed the example in their later conquests. One theory even suggests that Arabia fell behind Europe in Economic/Political force because the Mongols caused so much devestation.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 12:02

okay, i'm sure there are lots of rich mongol individuals here and there in the prc. but inner mongolia as a whole is still a very poor region, and more importantly the beijing administration seeks to break down the identity of the mongols as an unique people by either ignoring their achievements or parading them under the name of 'chinese'. in this way it seeks to assimilate them altogether, as it does Kazakhs, Tibetans, uighurs and countless others. this isn't multiculturalism, it's cultural imperialism.

also, genghis did employ han chinese, but under the mongol empire there was a very clear hierarchy between the different ethnic races and mongols and chinese were not encouraged to intermarry. mongols were at the top of the empire's hierarchy, southern chinese at the bottom. it is ironic why the chinese regard a regime which evidently had little sympathy for them as their own.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 20:26

"The PRC today, with its Han ethnocentrism and 'everyone's Chinese' attitude is the 'perfect legacy' of CK and his lineage? man...to be the perfect legacy of the mongol empire you have to be a mongol."

 

Thats absolute nonsense, PRC is far from Han ethnocentrism, that would be the ROC with their anti manchu centiments. And they even specifically mentioned that Han should dominate the country where PRC mentioned none of these.

 

"okay, i'm sure there are lots of rich mongol individuals here and there in the prc. but inner mongolia as a whole is still a very poor region, and more importantly the beijing administration seeks to break down the identity of the mongols as an unique people by either ignoring their achievements or parading them under the name of 'chinese'. in this way it seeks to assimilate them altogether, as it does Kazakhs, Tibetans, uighurs and countless others. this isn't multiculturalism, it's cultural imperialism."

 

Bullsh*t, if you don't know something, don't make it up, have you even been to inner mongolia, Tibet or Xing Jiang? Or do you even know how the school system works? As an ethnic minority I can tell you how the school system works, kids learn both Han and their naticve writing, but they all speak their native language at school, as grades go on more and more of the writing is learned, thats why inner monglians preserve more of their mongol script than the outer mongolians, Tibet isn't even much sinicized for your information, not much sinification cahnged since the PRC take over with the exception of a limited Han moving there.

 

"If Yuan was so Chinese why were there anti-Mongol rebellions that lead to the establishment of Ming?"

Corrections, the rebellion has nothing to do with anti mongol, it started because of the disasters and shortage of food within the empire and rumor that the Yuan lost the mandate of heaven went rampant, only during the late time did Zhu yuan Zhang use the slogan chase out the barbarians to make his attack easier since the mongol government has tightened the racist laws at this moment. And last but not least this is pure ethnic hatred nothing to do with the "nationality" of modern sense since it did not exist back then. In fact Ming historians excepted quite readily the legitimacy of the Yuan dynasty when writing Yuan Shi.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 23:23
Thanks Warhead, I fully agree with you.
One question I would like to ask the know it all westerners and Republic of Mongolia Khalkhas in this forum.

IF GENGHIS DID KILL MILLIONS OF HANS, JURCHEN AND OTHERS,
HOW COULD A FEW MONGOLS LESS THAN 1/100TH THE COMBINED POPULATIONS OF THE JIN , XIXIA, SONG , AND KARAKITAI EMPIRES
SUCCEED IN WINNING VICTORY AFTER VICTORY AND EVENTUALLY CONTROLLING N.CHINA?

Many Jurchens, Hans , Qidans, joined his ranks, because they
saw a man with a vision to bring ORDER into the extremely
chaotic, violent, and fracticidal society that plagued
China in the 13th century.
Yeliu Chutsai, was the most senior adviser , counselor
and prime minister of the Mongol empire. It was he who
advised Genghis not to exterminate the population of N. China and to build Karakorum as a hub and administrative
centre of the empire.
In regards to the above, the PRC and Chinese people have
every right to make Genghis their national Hero.

r's
Clive

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 23:28
Making anyone national hero prior to the modern period is nothing but modern radical nonsense, concept of nationality did not exist back then. All those so called "hero" are fighting for their own land, in that case Yue Fei is a national hero but for Song not china.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 23:39
China has a reason for making Genghis a hero, they want
to show the people, especially the young people in China what a role model should be . Genghis is an excellent fit because:
a. he is a man for others.
b. he suffered heavily in his youth, but learned much from this , and used this as a base for projecting himself into the future.
c. he is not the bloodthirsty conqueror as portrayed by west and middle east, on the other hand he gave people many chances. After taking Zhongdu, he made the Jin emperor, one of his confederates, by conferring him the title of "king of Henan", same with the Xixia emperor. Only when they tried to stab him at the back did he get at them. He gave Shah Mohammed 2 chances to turn in the guilty party who murdered his emissaries. Only when Shah mohammed ignored these and further abused the chances by burning the beards of the last group of emissaries, did Genghis get after him.

r's
clive
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 16:00

As I said, this thread's got nothing to do with CK, whether he was heroic or not etc. It's all about trying to make inner mongolians look more chinese. I don't watch any chinese tv series be it about Buddha or CK, so talk about the great historical education you got from them with your old woman. I've put clear answers and facts, corrected obvious mistakes and the man just keeps on ranting something about khalkhas or Galdan, as if he had any idea about mongols. There you have propaganda and brainwashing. I'd like this clive person to just go and talk to some actual mongols from China, like I did and get the answers I got. He'll probably turn berserk and start planning the next cultural revolution. And if this clive person really hangs about UB I'll gladly clean my shoes with his physionomy.

warhead: you could come work at some of those road constuction projects in the country-side, get the authentic taste of being chinese.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 22:40

Originally posted by warhead

concept of nationality did not exist back then

Is that why Chinese called all their neighbours, including Manchus, barbarians?

The title of this topic is nonsense. Period.

I recommend Tojo to be the next "Chinese hero" because he was so patriotic and fought in the name of his country.  One moment shout all hail Communism! The next, shout all hail Fascism!

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 23:45
Hi Chono
I know many mongols in China and Republic of Mongolia , some in very high rank in your government. I also know some
people exactly like you.
There is a big contrast between the doers ( CK included here), and the talkers ( you and your kind).
The doers have open minds, are cool, unemotional, friendly
and imaginative.
The talkers are arrogant, incompetent, combative, and noisy, like empty cans clanking along the dusty road. Which befitts you and your kind
Many senior officials in the Republic of Mongolia, realize
the importance of improving the economic and cultural ties between China and Mongolia. Many even talk about integration with China, and only a small small minority
of trouble makers like you and your kind still want to forment trouble to spoil the excellent atmosphere of cooperation between the two countries.
Why should not China grant a national hero status to an individual who has contributed greatly by paving the road for a unification and integration of the chinese people
that stands firm till today?

Clive


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 23:54
CHono
Why do you skip the topic of Galdan? Mahamu? or Esen Khongtaiji?
Looks like you fear these three gentlemen. Do you remember
that your forefather in the 17th century had to go on his knees and beg emperor kangxi to save the Khalkha nation and people from the wrath of Galdan?

Clive
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 00:05
CHono
If you talk about the chinese brainwashing me, how can I
deny what I see when :
a. Many Khalkha women sell their bodies in China and South Korea to earn some money to send back home to Ulan Bataar .
b. Many Khalkha women are now working as maids and helpers not only in Inner mongolia but all over China even in Shenzhen.
c. Many Khalkha men are taxi drivers, even coolies in the streets of Beijing , Dalian, etc..
d. Many idle people in Ulan Batoor, who just drink Vodka
and rant and rail like you.
In Huhot, Baotou, Xilinhot, Erenhot, Tongliao, Eijin Horo,
Jinzhou, Chifeng, Ulanhot, I see prosperity and people so busy talking in their cellular phones transacting business deals , well dressed, well educated, etc.
Compare the economy of Inner Mongolia vs. the republic of mongolia, how many tugriks is to one renminbi? How many tugriks to a dollar? Compare this with how many renminbi to a dollar? Mathematics does not lie, and the facts speak for themselves. CK today would be proud of the Horcin,
Chahar, Kharachin, Tumaat, Barga, of Inner mongolia, but he would be extremely disappointed by the performance of the Khalkha people of the Republic of Mongolia.

Clive

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 07:00

Stop talking imperialism-speak you Maoist.

There was a famous imperialist called Clive (Black Sheep?) - who basically colonized whole of Bengal - you do well to follow his name.

Doers are so unemotional and cool and creative that they create concentration camps and wipe out whole races.... evildoers...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 14:12

"Is that why Chinese called all their neighbours, including Manchus, barbarians? "

 

Europeans also call others barbarians during the 19th century, are they one nation?

 

"Stop talking imperialism-speak you Maoist. "

 

Considering his wife is mongol whats so imperialistic about it?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 14:12

 "could come work at some of those road constuction projects in the country-side, get the authentic taste of being chinese"

 

Did that, better than living in mongolia.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 15:44

Cortez's mistress was a Mexican native... so he isn't an imperialist? There are people (ie. some Chinese during Opium War) who willingly gave up their coutry to side with invaders... are they not a part of the imperialist gang?

Who said Europe was one? I said there was concept of nationality in China - isn't that why they called all other people, some of whom were their technological surperiors "barians"?

Of course there was a concept of nationality - otherwise why would Gengis Khan have been prejudiced to Chinese, prefering to use Islamic Arab/Persian officials rather than the natives even in China?

Even 1400 years back in Ancient Greece there was concept of nationality. Note that Aristotles taught that Greeks are always surperior to "barbarians", not only culturally, but biologically.

 

 

 

 



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