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Topic ClosedWhy does Serbia hold onto Montenegro?

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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why does Serbia hold onto Montenegro?
    Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 01:50
Originally posted by Surbel

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Socrates



Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Coming into this thread having little knowledge of the ethnic differences in the Balkans excluding religion. I have to say that the Bosniak (? Bosniak is the ethnic group of people who live in Bosnia yes?) arguement is much better than the Serbian one.
I have been convinced that the Bosnians are not nor were ever Serbs.

EDIT: What does cetnik mean?


And what do u know about history of balcans?Do u know that r languages r the same?I think u're supporting them because they're muslims...in fact i'm 100% sure that u are.What book about Serbia or Bosnia and their history have u ever read?I'm sure I know more of your country then you know of mine( or bosnia)...

You may know more about Pakistan than I do about the Balkans, I'm just saying your arguement doesn't make sense while Mila's does. If you prove to me that bosnians were once serbs, then I'll believe you.

Perhaps you should look up the origin of the word Bosinian or Bosniak. Use several sources to be sure.
You just seem to be yelling at each other without constructing any sort of arguement to prove your case. This case can only be proven in History.
What is the first known reference to the Bosnian people?
Why can't you say all serbs are Bosnians?
Why aren't you claiming all Bosnians are Croats?
etc.




 http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm

 Need more,just say!

Yes, that doesn't help prove your point. The only part of that which argues the serbian point is this:
the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs.
While on the other hand
After Basil's death Bosnia regained its independence and was ruled by native bans until it was united with the domain of Bela II, King of Hungary. In 1135 this ruler called himself for the first time King of Rama (Bosnia).

between the Byzantine Empire on the one side and Hungary and the southern Slavs on the other; in this Ban Boris, the first ruler of Bosnia known by name, remained faithful to Hungary.

 his family, and 10,000 Bosnians between the years 1190-99, became adherents of the Paterine heresy.

 The campaign of the Turks ended in the overthrow of the Bosnian kingdom

But the Mohammedan population, secretly incited by Servia, rose under the leadership of the adventurer, Hadschi Loja, against the "foreign conquerors"

These quotes from the same source clearly show a seperate bosnian political entity and people. Also saying Mohammedan shows a huge lack of understanding about Islam and discredits the source.

Unfortunately all these pictures your posting just look like "Image hosted by Tripod, www.tripod.com" to me. Which makes the post where you said 'something you don't see everyday' rather amusing. Also the links you posted are in cyrillic, which I can't read.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 02:57
Originally posted by Mortaza

Muslims-as a term for nationality

well, I think you have a problem  here.

still turks and  pomak at greeks called as muslim. serbs   at ottomans just called as orthodox. This  is something  related with millet system, It is not built by race or nation but religion.

It is known fact, turks, bosniaks, albanians or kurds were just called as muslim.

 

 

Not very true , Mortaza.In the same lexicon it clearly says ALBANIANS...nothing about their religion is brought up-and remember-70's-communism-there r no religions-yet they didn't use the term Bosniak but rather muslim.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 03:09

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Socrates



Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Coming into this thread having little knowledge of the ethnic differences in the Balkans excluding religion. I have to say that the Bosniak (? Bosniak is the ethnic group of people who live in Bosnia yes?) arguement is much better than the Serbian one.
I have been convinced that the Bosnians are not nor were ever Serbs.

EDIT: What does cetnik mean?


And what do u know about history of balcans?Do u know that r languages r the same?I think u're supporting them because they're muslims...in fact i'm 100% sure that u are.What book about Serbia or Bosnia and their history have u ever read?I'm sure I know more of your country then you know of mine( or bosnia)...

You may know more about Pakistan than I do about the Balkans, I'm just saying your arguement doesn't make sense while Mila's does. If you prove to me that bosnians were once serbs, then I'll believe you.

Perhaps you should look up the origin of the word Bosinian or Bosniak. Use several sources to be sure.
You just seem to be yelling at each other without constructing any sort of arguement to prove your case. This case can only be proven in History.
What is the first known reference to the Bosnian people?
Why can't you say all serbs are Bosnians?
Why aren't you claiming all Bosnians are Croats?
etc.

I already checked and emphasized that they started refering themselves as bosnians or bosniaks aprox 800 years ago!!However, if u look back through geneology, u can find surnames like: filipovic, ljubic, rascic, tadic etc.-which r serbian.I'm not denying their rights, and i do not have any bad intentions-i think i'm rather objective on the matter...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 03:39

what happened serebnica ? what happened 60.000 bosnian?

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 06:41
Originally posted by merced12

what happened serebnica ? what happened 60.000 bosnian?

 

Funny, I was gonna ask u what happened to Armenians in 1915!What happened to all those under ottoman rule till 20th century?Btw, what happened to bosnian serbs in the 90's?I seem to remember that bosniaks did some pretty terrifing things...AND FINALLY, WHAT HAPPENED TO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SERBS DURING WWII-I"LL TELL U-THEY WERE SLAUGHTERED IN THE MOST VICIOUS AND TERRIBLE WAY-IT SHOCKED EVEN THE NAZIS- THEY WERE KILLED REGARDLESS OF THEIR SEX OR AGE...Anyway, I don't know what does srebrenica has to do with question of bosniak origins...And u better keep a low profile-if i start a post about turkish massacres-it'll be more then one badly written line...i really don't know why(since i haven't mentioned turkey)-but u're asking for it.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 06:49

1915 in the war

its russia propaganda and french

in balkan wars how many turk died ? how many turk died in mora?

do u know?

and in serebnica what happened ?  maybe aliens escape them

all greek support serb i wonder whats role of  greeks in serebnica

 



Edited by merced12
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 06:53



Edited by merced12
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
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Babur in india
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 06:59

6/29/2005

Greek Volunteers at Srebrenica?

Filed under: site admin @ 9:43 am

Heres a sobering article from Britains Independent. I am writing up a short opinion piece for StrategyPage based on this report. It should run on StrategyPage tomorrow (June 30).

Heres the Independents lede:

Greece has launched a judicial inquiry to discover the extent of its involvement in the Srebrenica massacre, Europes worst atrocity since the Second World War.

An Athens prosecutor announced a preliminary investigation to find what role Greek volunteers played in the slaughter of 8,000 Muslim men, women and children in the UN enclave in Bosnia in 1995. With the 10th anniversary of the massacre on 11 July, and Bosnian Serb authorities admitting the extent of the massacre, any confirmed Greek involvement would embarrass Athens seriously.

Greece was a staunch ally of the Milosevic regime in the Yugoslav wars of succession in the 1990s but the presence of Greek paramilitaries fighting with Bosnian Serbs has not been fully investigated. The part played by the so-called Greek Volunteer Brigade in the assault on Srebrenica was widely reported in Greece at the time but veterans of the brigade have gone to ground since the formation of the war crimes tribunal that indicted the former Serb and Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic.

The Independent adds:

Four members of the unit received medals of honour from the Bosnian Serb leader, Radovan Karadzic, within a month of Srebrenicas fall.

The Independent notes that it is relying on reports from the Greek press that appeared in 1995. The Greek newspaper Ethnos is specifically mentioned. The story says video footage proves that Greece shipped arms to Serbia in violation of weapons sanctions.

There were numerous rumors dating back to 1992 of Orthodox volunteers serving with Serb paramilitaries Orthodox as in the foreign volunteer claimed to be a member of one of the Eastern Orthodox Christian churches. The rumors Jim Dunnigan (of StrategyPage) and I heard in the early Nineties suggested a few dozen non-Serb volunteers might be participating. Heres the scenario I envisaged: A Greek ultra-nationalist who hates Turks decides to head north to Bosnia because he see the Serbs are doing something about the Turks. (In his mind Bosnian Muslim means Turk.) All this not-so-imaginary character has to do is take a bus from Athens to Belgrade and then ask for an automatic rifle. An investigation may reveal there were far more than a few dozen who took the bus to Belgrade (perhaps several hundred?).

If the Serb paramilitaries use of Orthodox volunteers echoes Al Qaedas appeals to fellow Islamist radicals guess what, its the same dark stroke, though theres no evidence the Serbs were ever as well-organized as Al Qaeda in terms of foreign recruitment. Greece appears to be investigating its own citizens possible participation in terrorist murder. When Saudi Arabia conducts similar prosecutorial investigations well know the War on Terror has turned a major corner.

2 Comments

The URI to TrackBack this entry is: http://austinbay.net/blog/wp-trackback.php?p=403

  1. Two questions:
    1. Could Greece have engaged in efforts to break the UN embargo involving Yugoslavia (most likely unofficial efforts to look the other way when stuff and people were crossing the border)?

    2. What sort of implications would exist vis-a-vis Operation Allied Force and the NATO strikes in 1995? Could Greece have passed on either warnings or information to help the Serbs in case of a NATO attack?

    It would also be worth noting that there was a bit of drama involving Macedonia (Greece apparently had some objection to the former Yugoslav Republic of that name gaining independce - I dont remember all the details). That might have been a motive.

    Comment by HaroldHutchison 7/2/2005 @ 10:29 pm

  2. What sort of implications would exist vis-a-vis Operation Allied Force and the NATO strikes in 1995? Could Greece have passed on either warnings or information to help the Serbs in case of a NATO attack?

    Comment by john 9/26/2005 @ 9:06 am

  3. source:http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=403

  4.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:05

ohh  civilised europe

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/milosevic/story/0,10639,86886 9,00.html

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/634/634p20.htm

yes serebrinica it is a copenhag criterion.

we dont forget srebrenica never never are u hear

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:14

yeah fake photo  i ask u why are armenians dont  find a whole grave

how many armenians died? 1.5 millions or 1

and this tobic about yugoslavia you are very tricky

 

 



Edited by merced12
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:14
a nonsense discussion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:17
Originally posted by merced12

ohh  civilised europe

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/milosevic/story/0,10639,86886 9,00.html

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/634/634p20.htm

yes serebrinica it is a copenhag criterion.

we dont forget srebrenica never never are u hear

first, u should learn to behave.Second - it's not serebnica-ask any bosniak what sere means.Third u're very arogant for someone with such limited knowledge.Fourth-bosniaks r not turks-it's really between serbs and bosniaks-nobody asked u anything.Fifth, i didn't even say that srebrenica never happened-ask Mila if u want.

PS:U must have been away when God gave common sense, cause u wouldn't even consider posting this if u had any.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:20

socrates, what about think this picture?

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:25

Originally posted by Mortaza

a nonsense discussion.

I didn't want this to go where it went...I'm forced to react in this way...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:27

so you're answer to everything is : propaganda, fake...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:31

I didn't want this to go where it went...I'm forced to react in this way...

just   ignore pictures,  and pls  not another armenian  genocide argument.

Merced mostly serbs accept srebrenica, what is your aim?

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:43
Originally posted by Mortaza

I didn't want this to go where it went...I'm forced to react in this way...

just   ignore pictures,  and pls  not another armenian  genocide argument.

Merced mostly serbs accept srebrenica, what is your aim?

 




 Mortaza,can we pls continue with disscusion or i must show my arhive of genocide in past 100years?

 After all my posting( ORIGINAL LETTERS) members wich doesn't wonna accept the fact,they can find some other topic,or open a new one to show Genocide photos and video material.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 08:47
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Surbel

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Socrates



Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Coming into this thread having little knowledge of the ethnic differences in the Balkans excluding religion. I have to say that the Bosniak (? Bosniak is the ethnic group of people who live in Bosnia yes?) arguement is much better than the Serbian one.
I have been convinced that the Bosnians are not nor were ever Serbs.

EDIT: What does cetnik mean?


And what do u know about history of balcans?Do u know that r languages r the same?I think u're supporting them because they're muslims...in fact i'm 100% sure that u are.What book about Serbia or Bosnia and their history have u ever read?I'm sure I know more of your country then you know of mine( or bosnia)...

You may know more about Pakistan than I do about the Balkans, I'm just saying your arguement doesn't make sense while Mila's does. If you prove to me that bosnians were once serbs, then I'll believe you.

Perhaps you should look up the origin of the word Bosinian or Bosniak. Use several sources to be sure.
You just seem to be yelling at each other without constructing any sort of arguement to prove your case. This case can only be proven in History.
What is the first known reference to the Bosnian people?
Why can't you say all serbs are Bosnians?
Why aren't you claiming all Bosnians are Croats?
etc.




 http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm

 Need more,just say!

Yes, that doesn't help prove your point. The only part of that which argues the serbian point is this:
the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs.
While on the other hand
After Basil's death Bosnia regained its independence and was ruled by native bans until it was united with the domain of Bela II, King of Hungary. In 1135 this ruler called himself for the first time King of Rama (Bosnia).

between the Byzantine Empire on the one side and Hungary and the southern Slavs on the other; in this Ban Boris, the first ruler of Bosnia known by name, remained faithful to Hungary.

 his family, and 10,000 Bosnians between the years 1190-99, became adherents of the Paterine heresy.

 The campaign of the Turks ended in the overthrow of the Bosnian kingdom

But the Mohammedan population, secretly incited by Servia, rose under the leadership of the adventurer, Hadschi Loja, against the "foreign conquerors"

These quotes from the same source clearly show a seperate bosnian political entity and people. Also saying Mohammedan shows a huge lack of understanding about Islam and discredits the source.

Unfortunately all these pictures your posting just look like "Image hosted by Tripod, www.tripod.com" to me. Which makes the post where you said 'something you don't see everyday' rather amusing. Also the links you posted are in cyrillic, which I can't read.



 The letter of Bosnian rulers was in cirilic,why???
Cous they are Holandes?

 Those letters i showed are in arhive in Dubrovnik.
 
 Without those letters we have others sources to proof our history.

~Einhard
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~LPD..

 Until now you didn't show not even one document!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 09:37

Another thing for that mosque in baghdad. Where can i find information about this. Some book or objective independant link ? please i am really interested

http://www.irakturkleri.com/iraktaki_turk_mimari_eserleri_ba gdad.html

 

Page is  this ,it is turkish,  and made by Iraqian  Turkmens, they are listing turkish buildings.one of its  name is.

45. Bonak Ahmed Paa Mescidi

Bosnian heritage at ottomans didnt took much interest,  Infact they have a lot rulers and  sadrazams at ottomans.

 

Kara Davud Paa (borned at bosnia)(1622-1622),

http://www.kenthaber.com/izbirakan.aspx?ID=3012

Well,  main effect of  his over ottomans is that, he have much  effect over killing Gen Osman(Ottoman patisah)

He is also  married with sister of 1. Mustafa(another patisah)

Hersekzade Ahmet Paa, another ottoman  sadrazam.(1497-1516 ),

there is  a mosque  named as Hersekzade Ahmet Paa Cami in  edirne.

 

Ali Paa ars financed by  Hersekli Semiz Ali Paa. (architect mimar sinan)

http://www.ayakizi.web.tr/modules.php?name=Content&pa=sh owpage&pid=128

 

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