Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended
Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
|
Topic: Why does Serbia hold onto Montenegro? Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 01:50 |
Originally posted by Surbel
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by Socrates
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Coming into this thread having little knowledge
of the ethnic differences in the Balkans excluding religion. I have to
say that the Bosniak (? Bosniak is the ethnic group of people who live
in Bosnia yes?) arguement is much better than the Serbian one.
I have been convinced that the Bosnians are not nor were ever Serbs.
EDIT: What does cetnik mean? |
And what do u know about history of balcans?Do u know that r languages
r the same?I think u're supporting them because they're muslims...in
fact i'm 100% sure that u are.What book about Serbia or Bosnia and
their history have u ever read?I'm sure I know more of your country
then you know of mine( or bosnia)...
|
You may know more about Pakistan than I do about the Balkans, I'm just
saying your arguement doesn't make sense while Mila's does. If you
prove to me that bosnians were once serbs, then I'll believe you.
Perhaps you should look up the origin of the word Bosinian or Bosniak. Use several sources to be sure.
You just seem to be yelling at each other without constructing any sort
of arguement to prove your case. This case can only be proven in
History.
What is the first known reference to the Bosnian people?
Why can't you say all serbs are Bosnians?
Why aren't you claiming all Bosnians are Croats?
etc.
|
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm
Need more,just say!
|
Yes, that doesn't help prove your point. The only part of that which argues the serbian point is this:
the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs.
While on the other hand
After Basil's death Bosnia regained
its independence and was ruled by native bans until it was united with
the domain of Bela II, King of Hungary. In 1135 this ruler called
himself for the first time King of Rama (Bosnia).
between the Byzantine Empire on the
one side and Hungary and the southern Slavs on the other; in this Ban
Boris, the first ruler of Bosnia known by name, remained faithful to
Hungary.
his family, and 10,000 Bosnians between the years 1190-99, became adherents of the Paterine heresy.
The campaign of the Turks ended in the overthrow of the Bosnian kingdom
But the Mohammedan population,
secretly incited by Servia, rose under the leadership of the
adventurer, Hadschi Loja, against the "foreign conquerors"
These quotes from the same source clearly show a seperate
bosnian political entity and people. Also saying Mohammedan shows a
huge lack of understanding about Islam and discredits the source.
Unfortunately all these pictures your posting just look like "Image
hosted by Tripod, www.tripod.com" to me. Which makes the post where you
said 'something you don't see everyday' rather amusing. Also the links
you posted are in cyrillic, which I can't read.
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 02:57 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
Muslims-as a term for nationality
well, I think you have a problem here.
still turks and pomak at greeks called as muslim. serbs at ottomans just called as orthodox. This is something related with millet system, It is not built by race or nation but religion.
It is known fact, turks, bosniaks, albanians or kurds were just called as muslim.
|
Not very true , Mortaza.In the same lexicon it clearly says ALBANIANS...nothing about their religion is brought up-and remember-70's-communism-there r no religions-yet they didn't use the term Bosniak but rather muslim.
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 03:09 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by Socrates
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Coming into this thread having little knowledge of the ethnic differences in the Balkans excluding religion. I have to say that the Bosniak (? Bosniak is the ethnic group of people who live in Bosnia yes?) arguement is much better than the Serbian one. I have been convinced that the Bosnians are not nor were ever Serbs.
EDIT: What does cetnik mean? |
And what do u know about history of balcans?Do u know that r languages r the same?I think u're supporting them because they're muslims...in fact i'm 100% sure that u are.What book about Serbia or Bosnia and their history have u ever read?I'm sure I know more of your country then you know of mine( or bosnia)...
|
You may know more about Pakistan than I do about the Balkans, I'm just saying your arguement doesn't make sense while Mila's does. If you prove to me that bosnians were once serbs, then I'll believe you.
Perhaps you should look up the origin of the word Bosinian or Bosniak. Use several sources to be sure. You just seem to be yelling at each other without constructing any sort of arguement to prove your case. This case can only be proven in History. What is the first known reference to the Bosnian people? Why can't you say all serbs are Bosnians? Why aren't you claiming all Bosnians are Croats? etc.
|
I already checked and emphasized that they started refering themselves as bosnians or bosniaks aprox 800 years ago!!However, if u look back through geneology, u can find surnames like: filipovic, ljubic, rascic, tadic etc.-which r serbian.I'm not denying their rights, and i do not have any bad intentions-i think i'm rather objective on the matter...
|
|
merced12
General
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 03:39 |
what happened serebnica ? what happened 60.000 bosnian?
|
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 06:41 |
Originally posted by merced12
what happened serebnica ? what happened 60.000 bosnian?
|
Funny, I was gonna ask u what happened to Armenians in 1915!What happened to all those under ottoman rule till 20th century?Btw, what happened to bosnian serbs in the 90's?I seem to remember that bosniaks did some pretty terrifing things...AND FINALLY, WHAT HAPPENED TO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SERBS DURING WWII-I"LL TELL U-THEY WERE SLAUGHTERED IN THE MOST VICIOUS AND TERRIBLE WAY-IT SHOCKED EVEN THE NAZIS- THEY WERE KILLED REGARDLESS OF THEIR SEX OR AGE...Anyway, I don't know what does srebrenica has to do with question of bosniak origins...And u better keep a low profile-if i start a post about turkish massacres-it'll be more then one badly written line...i really don't know why(since i haven't mentioned turkey)-but u're asking for it.
|
|
merced12
General
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 06:49 |
1915 in the war
its russia propaganda and french
in balkan wars how many turk died ? how many turk died in mora?
do u know?
and in serebnica what happened ? maybe aliens escape them
all greek support serb i wonder whats role of greeks in serebnica
Edited by merced12
|
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
|
|
merced12
General
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 06:53 |
|
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
|
|
merced12
General
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 06:59 |
6/29/2005
Filed under:
site admin @ 9:43 am
Heres a sobering article from Britains Independent. I am writing up a short opinion piece for StrategyPage based on this report. It should run on StrategyPage tomorrow (June 30).
Heres the Independents lede:
Greece has launched a judicial inquiry to discover the extent of its involvement in the Srebrenica massacre, Europes worst atrocity since the Second World War.
An Athens prosecutor announced a preliminary investigation to find what role Greek volunteers played in the slaughter of 8,000 Muslim men, women and children in the UN enclave in Bosnia in 1995. With the 10th anniversary of the massacre on 11 July, and Bosnian Serb authorities admitting the extent of the massacre, any confirmed Greek involvement would embarrass Athens seriously.
Greece was a staunch ally of the Milosevic regime in the Yugoslav wars of succession in the 1990s but the presence of Greek paramilitaries fighting with Bosnian Serbs has not been fully investigated. The part played by the so-called Greek Volunteer Brigade in the assault on Srebrenica was widely reported in Greece at the time but veterans of the brigade have gone to ground since the formation of the war crimes tribunal that indicted the former Serb and Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic.
The Independent adds:
Four members of the unit received medals of honour from the Bosnian Serb leader, Radovan Karadzic, within a month of Srebrenicas fall.
The Independent notes that it is relying on reports from the Greek press that appeared in 1995. The Greek newspaper Ethnos is specifically mentioned. The story says video footage proves that Greece shipped arms to Serbia in violation of weapons sanctions.
There were numerous rumors dating back to 1992 of Orthodox volunteers serving with Serb paramilitaries Orthodox as in the foreign volunteer claimed to be a member of one of the Eastern Orthodox Christian churches. The rumors Jim Dunnigan (of StrategyPage) and I heard in the early Nineties suggested a few dozen non-Serb volunteers might be participating. Heres the scenario I envisaged: A Greek ultra-nationalist who hates Turks decides to head north to Bosnia because he see the Serbs are doing something about the Turks. (In his mind Bosnian Muslim means Turk.) All this not-so-imaginary character has to do is take a bus from Athens to Belgrade and then ask for an automatic rifle. An investigation may reveal there were far more than a few dozen who took the bus to Belgrade (perhaps several hundred?).
If the Serb paramilitaries use of Orthodox volunteers echoes Al Qaedas appeals to fellow Islamist radicals guess what, its the same dark stroke, though theres no evidence the Serbs were ever as well-organized as Al Qaeda in terms of foreign recruitment. Greece appears to be investigating its own citizens possible participation in terrorist murder. When Saudi Arabia conducts similar prosecutorial investigations well know the War on Terror has turned a major corner.
The URI to TrackBack this entry is: http://austinbay.net/blog/wp-trackback.php?p=403
|
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
|
|
merced12
General
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:05 |
|
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:07 |
|
|
merced12
General
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:14 |
yeah fake photo i ask u why are armenians dont find a whole grave
how many armenians died? 1.5 millions or 1
and this tobic about yugoslavia you are very tricky
Edited by merced12
|
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
|
|
Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:14 |
a nonsense discussion.
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:17 |
first, u should learn to behave.Second - it's not serebnica-ask any bosniak what sere means.Third u're very arogant for someone with such limited knowledge.Fourth-bosniaks r not turks-it's really between serbs and bosniaks-nobody asked u anything.Fifth, i didn't even say that srebrenica never happened-ask Mila if u want.
PS:U must have been away when God gave common sense, cause u wouldn't even consider posting this if u had any.
|
|
merced12
General
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:20 |
socrates, what about think this picture?
|
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:25 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
a nonsense discussion. |
I didn't want this to go where it went...I'm forced to react in this way...
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:27 |
so you're answer to everything is : propaganda, fake...
|
|
Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:31 |
I didn't want this to go where it went...I'm forced to react in this way...
just ignore pictures, and pls not another armenian genocide argument.
Merced mostly serbs accept srebrenica, what is your aim?
|
|
Surbel
Shogun
Joined: 31-Dec-2005
Location: Nepal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 07:43 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
I didn't want this to go where it went...I'm forced to react in this way...
just ignore pictures, and pls not another armenian genocide argument.
Merced mostly serbs accept srebrenica, what is your aim?
|
Mortaza,can we pls continue with disscusion or i must show my arhive of genocide in past 100years? After all my posting( ORIGINAL LETTERS) members wich doesn't wonna accept the fact,they can find some other topic,or open a new one to show Genocide photos and video material.
|
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
|
|
Surbel
Shogun
Joined: 31-Dec-2005
Location: Nepal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 08:47 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by Surbel
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by Socrates
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Coming into this thread having little knowledge
of the ethnic differences in the Balkans excluding religion. I have to
say that the Bosniak (? Bosniak is the ethnic group of people who live
in Bosnia yes?) arguement is much better than the Serbian one.
I have been convinced that the Bosnians are not nor were ever Serbs.
EDIT: What does cetnik mean? |
And what do u know about history of balcans?Do u know that r languages
r the same?I think u're supporting them because they're muslims...in
fact i'm 100% sure that u are.What book about Serbia or Bosnia and
their history have u ever read?I'm sure I know more of your country
then you know of mine( or bosnia)...
|
You may know more about Pakistan than I do about the Balkans, I'm just
saying your arguement doesn't make sense while Mila's does. If you
prove to me that bosnians were once serbs, then I'll believe you.
Perhaps you should look up the origin of the word Bosinian or Bosniak. Use several sources to be sure.
You just seem to be yelling at each other without constructing any sort
of arguement to prove your case. This case can only be proven in
History.
What is the first known reference to the Bosnian people?
Why can't you say all serbs are Bosnians?
Why aren't you claiming all Bosnians are Croats?
etc.
|
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm
Need more,just say!
|
Yes, that doesn't help prove your point. The only part of that which argues the serbian point is this:
the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs.
While on the other hand
After Basil's death Bosnia regained
its independence and was ruled by native bans until it was united with
the domain of Bela II, King of Hungary. In 1135 this ruler called
himself for the first time King of Rama (Bosnia).
between the Byzantine Empire on the
one side and Hungary and the southern Slavs on the other; in this Ban
Boris, the first ruler of Bosnia known by name, remained faithful to
Hungary.
his family, and 10,000 Bosnians between the years 1190-99, became adherents of the Paterine heresy.
The campaign of the Turks ended in the overthrow of the Bosnian kingdom
But the Mohammedan population,
secretly incited by Servia, rose under the leadership of the
adventurer, Hadschi Loja, against the "foreign conquerors"
These quotes from the same source clearly show a seperate
bosnian political entity and people. Also saying Mohammedan shows a
huge lack of understanding about Islam and discredits the source.
Unfortunately all these pictures your posting just look like "Image
hosted by Tripod, www.tripod.com" to me. Which makes the post where you
said 'something you don't see everyday' rather amusing. Also the links
you posted are in cyrillic, which I can't read.
|
The letter of Bosnian rulers was in cirilic,why??? Cous they are Holandes? Those letters i showed are in arhive in Dubrovnik. Without those letters we have others sources to proof our history. ~Einhard ~DAI ~LPD.. Until now you didn't show not even one document!
|
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
|
|
Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
|
Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 09:37 |
Another thing for that mosque in baghdad. Where can i find information about this. Some book or objective independant link ? please i am really interested
http://www.irakturkleri.com/iraktaki_turk_mimari_eserleri_ba gdad.html
Page is this ,it is turkish, and made by Iraqian Turkmens, they are listing turkish buildings.one of its name is.
45. Bonak Ahmed Paa Mescidi
Bosnian heritage at ottomans didnt took much interest, Infact they have a lot rulers and sadrazams at ottomans.
Kara Davud Paa (borned at bosnia)(1622-1622),
http://www.kenthaber.com/izbirakan.aspx?ID=3012
Well, main effect of his over ottomans is that, he have much effect over killing Gen Osman(Ottoman patisah)
He is also married with sister of 1. Mustafa(another patisah)
Hersekzade Ahmet Paa, another ottoman sadrazam.(1497-1516 ),
there is a mosque named as Hersekzade Ahmet Paa Cami in edirne.
Ali Paa ars financed by Hersekli Semiz Ali Paa. (architect mimar sinan)
http://www.ayakizi.web.tr/modules.php?name=Content&pa=sh owpage&pid=128
|
|
Two questions:
1. Could Greece have engaged in efforts to break the UN embargo involving Yugoslavia (most likely unofficial efforts to look the other way when stuff and people were crossing the border)?
2. What sort of implications would exist vis-a-vis Operation Allied Force and the NATO strikes in 1995? Could Greece have passed on either warnings or information to help the Serbs in case of a NATO attack?
It would also be worth noting that there was a bit of drama involving Macedonia (Greece apparently had some objection to the former Yugoslav Republic of that name gaining independce - I dont remember all the details). That might have been a motive.
Comment by HaroldHutchison 7/2/2005 @ 10:29 pm
What sort of implications would exist vis-a-vis Operation Allied Force and the NATO strikes in 1995? Could Greece have passed on either warnings or information to help the Serbs in case of a NATO attack?
Comment by john 9/26/2005 @ 9:06 am
source:http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=403