Why does Serbia hold onto Montenegro?

Originally posted by Surbel  Bosna is teritorial,regional... term.  In Vojvodina live ..... Vojvodians?  In Kosovo.................Kosovars?  In Herzegovina ........Herzegovians?  In Slavonia................Slavonians?  In Krajina........       &am p;nb sp;  Kraijanainais???    And apart of that,what cind of link is that    So,for you every one who doesn't call him self Bosniak in the Bosna he is crazy??   See the link and you must convert alot of people  http://www.geocities.com/savindan/BHetnicka.htm

 What you not understand?
 Can you stop avoiding,and answer on my questions chica?
 And give us a link of your source!
 
 
 

ill_tecnique relaja te un pocito,take some pills. Move on,you are liveing in the past not me.  If a fact disturbed you,don't watch it,like in a past  time.

 If you know that you are right,why you become so nervose?

 I didn't ensalt you not even once,but you did me few times.
I accept that.  It's not your fault if you had read just some books. Your time is comming,but start with bonton first.

So, Mila, I haven't got any brains-well as long as you've got some-we know that some of your arguments at earlier threads r heavily argumented with historically certifiable data, and that u would  never write a single thing from speculative sources...Now,what was the name of Tvrtko's brother?It was Vuk-most common name in serbia (if not solely in serbia).Tvrtko's finest duke was named- Vlatko Vukovic-rings any bells?how many Croats and Bosniaks have the name Vlatko?Or the surname Vukovic?

Byzantine emperor Constantine VII Porphyregenitus(X century) wrote that Bosnians r Serbs.His writings r among best sources available of balkans in his time.The term Bosniak started mainly aprox. 800 years ago due to bogumil question.>>

About that turkish traveler-how can anyone with any reason at all consider his work as a reference?Montenegrins called themselves Bosniaks in the 17th century???FHS, they were the most determined to fight turks and absolutely despised all converts calling them poturice!!Anyway, I found this about celebija:>>

''Evliya Celebi"

"...Evliya possessed a vivid imagination, occasionally mixing fact and fantasy; he described places he could not possibly have visited..." Copyright � 1994-2002 Encyclop�dia Britannica, Inc

Edited by Socrates

Originally posted by Mortaza so can you tell me how, a mosque at bagdat named as bosniak?

What the ....I feel like i'm listening to a politician who is talking about the economy of Nigeria when u ask him what is his next step in labour politics...

Mortaza, I really want to answer your question, it's just that i don't know what is it about.

 Mortaza,Serbs call them self Montenegrins(if they are from Montenegro)
 Rasan (from Raska),Sumadinac(if they are from Sumadija).

 Close to the Istanbul you have many toponims with name Beograd-does it make it Istanbul Serbian?  No!

 

On the Administration of the Empire (De Administrando Imperio), 10-th century

Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus aka: CONSTANTINE VII FLAVIUS PORPHYROGENITUS (b. September 905, Constantinople [now Istanbul, Turkey]. Nov. 9, 959), the Byzantine emperor from 913 to 959.

His writings are an immense source regarding the empire and neighboring lands. His work "De Administrando Imperio" is kept in its original manuscript in the Vatican library. It deals primarily with the Slavic peoples of the Balkans and its a huge account of geographical and cultural as well as political situation of the Balkans at the time. Porphyrogenitus does not only discuss the events of his lifetime, but of earlier periods such as that of Heraclius (610-641) and earlier.

Heading 32 of De Administrando Imperio of Constantine Porphyrogenitus, is called "On the Serbs and the lands in which they live". It speaks of the territories inhabited by Serbs in which he mentions Bosnia, specifically two inhabited cities, Kotor and Desnik, both of which are in an unidentified geographic position.

 

The annals of the Frankish chronologist Einhard, 9-th century

A source older than that of the is that of the Frankish chronicler Einhard . In his annals (�Royal Frankish Annals�), so precious to Serb history, he describes the uprising of the Pannonian prince Ljudevit (818-823). In his work, he claims that Ljudevit "withdrew from the city of Sisak and fled to the Serbs". Accordingly, Serbs must have lived somewhere around Una, maybe even to the west, likely where the modern Serbian Krajina (region of Lika) lies.

"Liudevitus Siscia civitate relicta, ad Sorabos, quae natio magnam Dalmatie partem obtinere dicitur, fugiendo se contulit"
, that is: "Ljudevit (prince of Lower Pannonia 822. - prim. CafeHome) having left the city of Sisak, fled to the Serbs, people inhabiting the greater part of Dalmatia).
Franjo Racki, the Croatian historian, says, that as the Roman province of Dalmatia stretched from the Adriatic to Pannonia, under those Serbs, who are mentioned by Einhard, we must look at all those lands between, and the people inhabiting them, ie: Bosnia to be considered Serbian land, inhabited by Serbs.



  I have a lots of documents,if you need them i be glad to share with you

 Show me some primary source of oposit.

In Perugia, February 24th., 1252

In his letter, Johannes, the archbishop of Dubrovnik (archiepiscopus Ragusinus), mentions Serbian Bosnia: "regnum Seruilie, quod est Bosgna" i.e. "Serbian kingdom of Bosnia". ("Regnum" must have loosely meant kingdom in that time for, Bosnia was then a "banovina".)

"...tria regna, videlicet regnum Zachlomie, regnum Seruilie, quod est Bosgna et regnum Tribunie. Et regnum Zachulmie extenditur vsque ad prouinciam Spalatensem, regnum Seruilie extenditur vsque ad prouinciam Collocensem, regnum Tribunie extenditur vsque ad prouinciam Dirachinam."

From: "Bullarium Ragusium", 401-402

Mortaza,Serbs call them self Montenegrins(if they are from Montenegro)
 Rasan (from Raska),Sumadinac(if they are from Sumadija).

 Close to the Istanbul you have many toponims with name Beograd-does it make it Istanbul Serbian?  No!

I dont  excatly  what do you mean, but  I dont know, baghdat have any common thing with bosnia. Remember that lands are slav lands,IIRC Belgrad is  a bulgarin  word.

I am not talking about times before  ottoman,  have no knowledge about this, but  ottomans know  difference between a  serb  and bosniak.

and far  before 1991,   there were a bosniak nation.

I dont  know when slav nation divided , but saying bosnians  are serbs is complately nonsense, their  source is   one, but they  are  two different nation.

but  well, afterall all of us comes from adam.

 

 

 

Constantine was an foreigner who said a small part of Bosnia was inhabited by Serbs. Meanwhile, the Romans described us as Dalmatians. The Italians and Hungarians described us as Croats. Some Albanians said we too were Illyrians. Many Serbian historians said we weren't Slavs at all, but are actually Turks.

As far as I'm concerned, foreigners can call us whatever they please - it does not reflect what we have considered ourselves.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovi na


"One can tally ethnic traits of medieval Bosnian rulers and find either Croat or Serb characteristics in the list. However, such simplistic approach is dated and discarded: there is no sign that the population of pre-Ottoman Bosnia and Herzegovina, whichever social stratum, had developed Croatian or Serbian ethnic consciousness even in a medieval sense of the word."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Miklosich

Edited by Mila

Just re-read the bolded part of my last post to answer your questions.

Well the Slavs settled Bosnia before the Serbs and Croats even arrived, Socrates.

Secondly, even those Slavs that arrived in later waves and settled Croatia and Serbia could hardly be called "Croats" or "Serbs" in a modern sense.

The independent Bosnian kingdom was consolidated at roughly the same time as their states were.

The defining characteristics of what makes Croats and Serbs different did not develop until the schism in Christianity, and the Bosnian Church developed at more or less the same time - and certainly carried a separate Bosnian identity into the Ottoman Empire.

Lastly, the genetic tests they conducted have shown that Bosniaks are largely indigenous to the Balkans anyway - with a relatively small level of the Slavic genes. More importantly, the tests showed there is a genetic difference between Bosniaks, Bosnian Croats, and Bosnian Serbs that could not have developed only during the Ottoman Empire. This means our people intermarried relatively infrequently during these formative years.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks#Genetic_analysis_of_in digenousness