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Why Alexander did not invade India?

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    Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 04:29

After he had captured Persepolis and was crowned King of Asia, he felt the need to capture the remaining former Eastern Satraps of Persia. One of the Punjab (modern day) has been and still is amongst the most fertile area in the world. It had been the main supply of the Persian Kings, and now he felt he had to take it.

 
Strictly speaking he did not go to India (modern republic of India that is)
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 07:56
Originally posted by Sparten

After he had captured Persepolis and was crowned King of Asia, he felt the need to capture the remaining former Eastern Satraps of Persia. One of the Punjab (modern day) has been and still is amongst the most fertile area in the world. It had been the main supply of the Persian Kings, and now he felt he had to take it.

 
Strictly speaking he did not go to India (modern republic of India that is)
 
Yes, i was also under the assumption that he invaded India becuase he thought that it would make him even more wealthy than Persia had. Especially since he had brought with him botanists and natural scientists who were there to investigate the flora, fauna and mineral wealth of the newly invaded lands.
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 09:45
Alexander wanted more than money he wanted the feeling of power. Of having achieved what none had done before. The urge to go on fueled him and finally pushed him over the edge. His generals had seen this develop and finally persuaded to go back over a year after his behavior became erratic. He was being dosed with an ancient world version of a pain killer because of a foot wound I believe.

He had what some would call an addictive personality in the way he developed sudden obsessions for one thing or another. He became addicted to the pain killer and finally overdosed on it. One day he would be very lucid and another day raving. On the way back he still held to power and insisted on going through the desert instead of the coastal route and the journey cost the lives of many of his most loyal men.
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  Quote Kamikaze 738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 18:34
One of the reasons why Alexander invaded India was because the Indians requested help from Alexander to defeat their neighboring tribe. One of them was Taxila which asked for Alexander's help in fighting against Pauravas who was ruled by King Porus at the time. Due to Alexander's curiosity and his desire for war, he agreed to help defeat Porus, which he did. But the battle was one of the most difficult battles Alexander had ever fought and his men know it. It had a lasting effect on them.

Other than that, why Alexander never went farther is like what everyone else said. His men were tired and were afraid to move on to fight against an even more powerful empire due to the difficulties fighting just Porus. His generals and soldiers were able to talk him into going back home. If he wanted to go farther into India, I think it is his dream that motivates him to go forward, his dream to reach the eastern shores of the world... little does Alexander or the Greeks as well known that the world is much bigger than they expected.
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2007 at 01:46
Originally posted by elenos

Alexander wanted more than money he wanted the feeling of power. Of having achieved what none had done before. The urge to go on fueled him and finally pushed him over the edge. His generals had seen this develop and finally persuaded to go back over a year after his behavior became erratic. He was being dosed with an ancient world version of a pain killer because of a foot wound I believe.

He had what some would call an addictive personality in the way he developed sudden obsessions for one thing or another. He became addicted to the pain killer and finally overdosed on it. One day he would be very lucid and another day raving. On the way back he still held to power and insisted on going through the desert instead of the coastal route and the journey cost the lives of many of his most loyal men.
 
Yes, that does make a lot of sense, in that it explains a lot.
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  Quote M. Nachiappan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 03:23

I think I have discussed on the topic.

I find from the earlier postings, I find my qurries have not been answered.
 
Just by accusing "revisionist" etc., the facts cannot be brushed aside.
 
As historian L. Fox pointed out Indians and Persians do not hate Alexander just because of "his atrocities", but question the "mythical invasion", as for as "Indians" are concerned.
 
The questions raised in the following papers and as well as the manipulations of coins / badges etc., may be tackled directly giving specific references:
 
1. THe Myth, Romance and Historicity of Alexander and His Influence on India by K. V. Ramakrishna Rao in http://www.hinduwebsite.com/history/research/alexandermyth.htm
 
2. "The Myth of Deification of Alexander and its alleged influence on the cult of Skanda-Murukan-Karttikeya" by by K. V. Ramakrishna Rao in http://www.murugan.org/events/2001_synopses/rao-1.htm
 
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 04:03
Is it fair to ask what part of our "western" history you do agree with? The history I try to follow is international. The same cannot be said for all people. 
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 04:17
Originally posted by Yiannis

Hmmm, I see. You're the revisionist type, who will support that Alexander has been actually defeated by Porus at the Hydaspes battle.
 
A few comments:
 
- The medallion shows Alexander not "falling down" but pursuing a defeated enemy.
- Medallions were issued to celebrate great victories, not defeats...
- If Alexander was defeated, he would certainly not be able to wander in India for 6 more months, defeating everyone who refused to surrender and going all the way to the Indian ocean where he build a fleet.
 
Still I'll be interested to hear if there're Indian primary sourses that indicate otherwise.
 
 
Good point. Losers do not issue "medallions", or "coins" after losing. And yes, if Alexander had been defeated, he, and what was left of his army, would have immediately vacated, and not have "lingered". Not to mention, "lingering" would have been impossible, as everyone around him would have become extremely powerful and dangerous due to the reduction in size of his defeated army.
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 17:26
Alexander accompished his goal. He wanted to defeat the Persians instead of the Persian attempt to conquer the Greeks, he decided to conquer the Persians. He really had not intention of conquering more then the Persian Empire until he kept conquering.
 
With Hephestion dead and Alexander's men wanting to go back to the estates that they had been promised, there was no reason to continue fighting. He was very liberal whereas his own  men believed he was to indulged in the Eastern culture rather then the Hellenic one. Many of his men supported Parmenion more then him! The Greeks viewed the Persians as the greatest empire of that time so to go any further into the unknown would be useless. Alexander wanted to conquer to the end of the Earth, problem is his men didn't.
 
He conquered coastal Indian villages including a very well fortified city, can't remember its name, but after conquering the city he suffered a wound. He started to lose it after that and still wanted to continue his campaign. He wanted to go back and conquer Arabia and later Carthage and was killed on the way there.
 
As for India being to tough to conquer, didn't the Macedonians themselves say the same about Persia? Persia at the time before Alexander's conquest was 10 times stronger than any Indian kingdom at the time. He faced overwhelming numbers at Issus and Gaugemala so to underestimate Alexander saying he would've lost in India Proper is definitely strange to say the least.
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 01:57
Originally posted by andrew

Alexander accompished his goal. He wanted to defeat the Persians instead of the Persian attempt to conquer the Greeks, he decided to conquer the Persians. He really had not intention of conquering more then the Persian Empire until he kept conquering.
 
With Hephestion dead and Alexander's men wanting to go back to the estates that they had been promised, there was no reason to continue fighting. He was very liberal whereas his own  men believed he was to indulged in the Eastern culture rather then the Hellenic one. Many of his men supported Parmenion more then him! The Greeks viewed the Persians as the greatest empire of that time so to go any further into the unknown would be useless. Alexander wanted to conquer to the end of the Earth, problem is his men didn't.
 
He conquered coastal Indian villages including a very well fortified city, can't remember its name, but after conquering the city he suffered a wound. He started to lose it after that and still wanted to continue his campaign. He wanted to go back and conquer Arabia and later Carthage and was killed on the way there.
 
As for India being to tough to conquer, didn't the Macedonians themselves say the same about Persia? Persia at the time before Alexander's conquest was 10 times stronger than any Indian kingdom at the time. He faced overwhelming numbers at Issus and Gaugemala so to underestimate Alexander saying he would've lost in India Proper is definitely strange to say the least.
 
Yes indeed. And i think the city you may be looking for, is the ancient city of Mali, a heavily fortified city along the shore of India. He suffered an extremely serious wound as a result of marching at the front of his army, being the first to scale the wall, and implant himself within the city, and in harms way. Which would also lead some to believe that he may have been a bit suicidal. Whatever the case may be, the city fell, and he was half-dead. Also, to assume that each and every one of his wounds played a part in his Death in Babylon, especially the one he recieved at Mali which never healed, would be a good assumption.
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  Quote Kamikaze 738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 01:53
Originally posted by andrew

As for India being to tough to conquer, didn't the Macedonians themselves say the same about Persia? Persia at the time before Alexander's conquest was 10 times stronger than any Indian kingdom at the time. He faced overwhelming numbers at Issus and Gaugemala so to underestimate Alexander saying he would've lost in India Proper is definitely strange to say the least.


India was not like Persia at the time. The Indians have such a different culture than the Persians that the Greeks knew little to nothing about them. Alexander fought for the first time in a open battle against Porus and discovered that Porus was a much more difficult opponent to face than Darius. At the Battle of the Hydaspes River, Alexander out numbered Porus, it was the other way around unlike when Alexander was fighting against Darius in which Alexander was outnumbered. Even with this advantage, Alexander suffered more casualties than any of his other battles which concludes that it was one of the most difficult battle that Alexander ever fought. To fight more of those battle would really put Alexander and his men in a very difficult position, putting them to the extreme limits in which contains them. The Greeks saw how tough the Indians were, and realized that India was a much more difficult place to conquer than Persia.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 02:30
Originally posted by Kamikaze 738

Originally posted by andrew

As for India being to tough to conquer, didn't the Macedonians themselves say the same about Persia? Persia at the time before Alexander's conquest was 10 times stronger than any Indian kingdom at the time. He faced overwhelming numbers at Issus and Gaugemala so to underestimate Alexander saying he would've lost in India Proper is definitely strange to say the least.


India was not like Persia at the time. The Indians have such a different culture than the Persians that the Greeks knew little to nothing about them. Alexander fought for the first time in a open battle against Porus and discovered that Porus was a much more difficult opponent to face than Darius. At the Battle of the Hydaspes River, Alexander out numbered Porus, it was the other way around unlike when Alexander was fighting against Darius in which Alexander was outnumbered. Even with this advantage, Alexander suffered more casualties than any of his other battles which concludes that it was one of the most difficult battle that Alexander ever fought. To fight more of those battle would really put Alexander and his men in a very difficult position, putting them to the extreme limits in which contains them. The Greeks saw how tough the Indians were, and realized that India was a much more difficult place to conquer than Persia.
are you sure that information is correct. sounds something like an indian nationalistic would say. The truth of the matter is by the time his army reached india they were dead tired, so they didn't have the will to go further.
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 04:11
Alexander had over-extended his supply lines and had become dependent on the good will of client kingdoms that had traded with either the Greeks or Persians. It was not military conquests alone that pushed Alexander forward but the willingness of the lands he entered to become modernized and receive help in setting up their old way of state in more organized ways. India was preparing for his coming for many did approve of the trade advantages he had to offer.

There was more than just the touch of showman about Alexander when his traveling military circus came into town. He not only showed off but flaunted himself at every opportunity. Much of the diplomatic work had been done years before by his father Philip. Alexander pushed those advantages to the point no return. Had he returned earlier history would have been different. He would have had to become the fulltime administrator which was something he clearly did not like doing.

I would say he couldn't stand the thought of sending in another army under another commander to take over "virgin" India in the sense nobody from the West had entered to fight them before. Of course there were those in India wanting a fight to test out the mettle of their troops before this new way of unity came sweeping in. In that sense Alexander was a symbol of a changing world. Even coinage was not that old at the time.
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  Quote pumaaa123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 08:08

Ok! Lets come back to the topic. Anyhow a great emperor whose early and later period of life been well documented with intellect and brave doesnt have a finish of same manner (History interprets, hes a born intellect). It appears something like looking through mist with people having differing opinions over it.

 

Point like a medallion or coins of such kind are released only in case of a WIN is worth but again the question rises, why such coin/medallion was produced when there was no war (over India) or win. Again the coin/medallion displayed here plainly shows a war.

 

Moreover, an emperor whom had a great notion to rule the world and been already won most part, naturally have good chance to restructure his army to more powerful and big in size. Those periods of wars were of that kind (gathering resources from the conquered territories to form nexus) and implying with recent style of war (like Hitlers war over Russia in frosty condition) is inappropriate.

 

One asserted that holding thunderbolt left shows the restoration of energy while other side an arrow strikes hard from his right.

 

So if the medallion/coin is true, there was a war in India in which he was wounded (so defeated) and died trying reinstating himself. And most of historians assert at last he dead because of sever wound. So that is it!

 
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 09:52
Originally posted by Kamizake

India was not like Persia at the time. The Indians have such a different culture than the Persians that the Greeks knew little to nothing about them. Alexander fought for the first time in a open battle against Porus and discovered that Porus was a much more difficult opponent to face than Darius. At the Battle of the Hydaspes River, Alexander out numbered Porus, it was the other way around unlike when Alexander was fighting against Darius in which Alexander was outnumbered. Even with this advantage, Alexander suffered more casualties than any of his other battles which concludes that it was one of the most difficult battle that Alexander ever fought. To fight more of those battle would really put Alexander and his men in a very difficult position, putting them to the extreme limits in which contains them. The Greeks saw how tough the Indians were, and realized that India was a much more difficult place to conquer than Persia.
 
So you're going to tell me the Indian Kingdoms were stronger then the Persian Empire? That does not deny the fact the Persian army was still 10 times stronger then the Indians one. Indians employed elephants and quite simply Alexander's men didn't know how to counter attack them. Just like when the Persians used Scythed chariots, you have to find a way to answer but Alexander's men didn't know how to. If they had expected elephants, they would have prepared and kept the casualties low.
 
Alexander's men were battle tested, they set out against the great empire ever at that time and crushed it. Not to say the Indian would've put up a better fight, but he took an army of 30,000 croseed Europe over to Asia in a move thought unthinkable even by his coutrymen and destroyed a vast empire that nearly conquered his nation twice! It's like Greece coming in an taking over the United States except the United States would probably have to be stronger for that to be a reasonable comparison.
 
Had Alexander waited for reenforcements from Macedonia and developed tactics to neutralize the effect of the elephants. His Companion cavalry was terrified because cavalry are scared of elephants. Notice why his cavalry fatalities were so low?
 
Wikipedia:
 
Macedonian losses to their cavalry arm was much less than in the infantry, with 280 killed. Alexander lost as many as 4,000 infantry, mostly phalanx troops,[11] while 12,000 of his men were wounded in total.[13] They had borne the brunt of the fighting against the elephants, as the horses of the Macedonian cavalry had refused to go near the beasts.
 
Alexander relied heavily on his cavalry. His phalanx can't single handedly defeat an army they held the enemy in place while the cavalry out flanked them.
 
If Alexander waited to recruit local troops, reenforce his army through Macedonia, and developed tactics to negate the elephants of the Magadha Empire why wouldn't Alexander conquer India? He conquered the strongest power at its height at that time never count out Alexander.
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  Quote pumaaa123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 08:17

Hope Mr.Nachiappan soon will come back with his fine placements here (it was his post that carried some healthy evidence).

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2007 at 00:07
Originally posted by Penelope

I know this may be a bit off topic, and i apologize for it, but does anyone know WHY Alexander felt the need to invade India?


For money...it was said that by the Achaemenid Persians that the Indian city of Takshashila earned double of what Babylon and Persepolis did combined. 
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  Quote Kamikaze 738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2007 at 00:45
Originally posted by andrew

So you're going to tell me the Indian Kingdoms were stronger then the Persian Empire? That does not deny the fact the Persian army was still 10 times stronger then the Indians one.


If you are still interested in discussing this... well all I have to say is that that post is just plain nationalism on your part. I wasnt saying that the Indians were stronger, its just Alexander had a harder time defeating them since he and his troops didnt know as much about the Indians than the Persians.

Originally posted by andrew

If they had expected elephants, they would have prepared and kept the casualties low.


Of course he expected elephants! I believe that Alexander's army saw some after the Battle of Gaugamela that Darius had brought but never got put into action... also Alexander ordered some 60 elephants (I think) from Taxila after some negotiations with the nobles there. However they werent used at the Battle of Hydaspes River against Porus because Alexander only sent half of his army to the battle which didnt contain the elephants. However, in all cases, Alexander never really saw how an elephant unit is used in battle so when he encounter one, he didnt know the full extent of damage the elephants can do, but he still won in the end so it was a good effort for his first battle with them, maybe next time he would more easily counter the elephants after witnessing how they are used.
 
Originally posted by andrew

If Alexander waited to recruit local troops, reenforce his army through Macedonia, and developed tactics to negate the elephants of the Magadha Empire why wouldn't Alexander conquer India?


It wasnt Alexander that didnt want to conquer India, it was his troops.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2007 at 03:02
Originally posted by andrew

 
So you're going to tell me the Indian Kingdoms were stronger then the Persian Empire? That does not deny the fact the Persian army was still 10 times stronger then the Indians one. Indians employed elephants and quite simply Alexander's men didn't know how to counter attack them. Just like when the Persians used Scythed chariots, you have to find a way to answer but Alexander's men didn't know how to. If they had expected elephants, they would have prepared and kept the casualties low.
 


Stronger?  Combined, maybe.  The Mahajanapadas combined would definetely be.  Look at it this way.  Alexander took top notch skilled phalangists, companions and other skilled Macedonians into India - as well as other troops from all over his now-massive empire.  However, he had a terribly tough time with Porus, a ruler of a 60 km Punjabi state - who had an army far smaller than Alexanders - and one that would obviously be not that well trained either (seeing as to how it was defending a small state - compared to Alexander's which was drawn from all over the Middle East and Meditterranean).  Even against these odds, Porus dealt Alexander's forces a bad blow - the hardest battle Alexander had ever fought was against a bunch of levies from a small state in India.  If he had such a hard time with these, how would he stand up to the supremely disciplined and hardened warriors of the Nandas, whose infantry alone numbered 200 000 skilled men?

Alexander used his brains and got the hell out!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2007 at 13:30
I note in the recent hollywood film, Alexandar was hit by an arrow shot by the Indian king and he was falling on the groud with blood oozing out from his chest and his horse fatally hit by another lance.
 
Was he really defeated by the Indians then?
 
Because, we read in history books differently, as if he came to India and conquer an Indian king?
 
If that is the case, how the Hollyhood people could have shot such scene? It is said that they spend crores in taking such historical films and before that they do lot of research also.
 
So Alexander coming to India is a myth or reality?
 
Was he killed by an Indian king?
 
Was he defeated and ran away from the north-west of ancient India?
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