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Why Alexander did not invade India?

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  Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Alexander did not invade India?
    Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 09:13
Originally posted by maqsad

I thought Alexander made some mention of his knowledge of the Nanda Indian Army. Like they had hundreds of elephants which were the ancient world's equivalent of the tank. After fighting Porus he might have been terrified to face an army 5 or 10 times the size of Porus's.
Yes they say that he had heard of a much larger empire in the Ganges-Yamuna area, (Nandas). Also it is said when he told some holymen of his plan to conquer India they laughed, because of the vastness.
With Porus (Paurava) the battle was fierce, and so hearing about a larger army coupled with the Monsoon season, meant at the Beas river in Punjab, the army mutineered, as they were to exausted to go on.


Edited by Vedam - 21-Oct-2006 at 09:37
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  Quote M. Nachiappan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2006 at 07:01

See the following photographs and give your opinion:

A

www.bible-history.com/archaeology/greece/2-al...

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/AlexanderPorusCoin.jpg      B

C

Comment about the Victor and the "defeated".


Edited by M. Nachiappan - 10-Nov-2006 at 07:12
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2006 at 14:25
nothing really, cant give an opinion. anyways the reason i think alexander didn't invade india was because by time alexander reached the indus river his army was tired as hell and many of the soldiers were dying because of diseases. India at that point was a unexplored region for the greeks and they didn't know what to expect. so thats why they did march into India when thier army was almost done
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  Quote M. Nachiappan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 02:50
Note the differences.
 
Had Alexander been a victor, would he have issued such a badge / coin by depicting himself falling down?
 
So, a doubt arises as to -
 
1. whether it is a badge or coin.
2. From where and when it was discovered?
3. How it has been dated?
4. What relation, it has with Alexander or Porus?
5. And how these (Alexander and Porus) were identified as such?
 
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 03:55
Hmmm, I see. You're the revisionist type, who will support that Alexander has been actually defeated by Porus at the Hydaspes battle.
 
A few comments:
 
- The medallion shows Alexander not "falling down" but pursuing a defeated enemy.
- Medallions were issued to celebrate great victories, not defeats...
- If Alexander was defeated, he would certainly not be able to wander in India for 6 more months, defeating everyone who refused to surrender and going all the way to the Indian ocean where he build a fleet.
 
Still I'll be interested to hear if there're Indian primary sourses that indicate otherwise.
 
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  Quote M. Nachiappan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 04:12
Your "a few comments" do not serve the purpose, as the questions remain unanswered.
 
First, you answer to the questions, then we can proceed.
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 05:38
Well, I don't have all the answers, still:
 
- Medallions could be used also for monetary transactions, same as coins. So it was something in between a coin and a medallion as we know it today.
- They had significand propadanda value. This one depicts Alexander with thunderbolds in his hand. A clear reference to Zeus and his attempt to consolidate power by trying to impose his deification. The same pattern (Alexander vs. elephant) has been found in mosaics, so it must have been known and popular at the time.
- Bosworth (in Alexander and the East) said:"In a manner unique to ancient coinage he (Alexander) was sending a message to people who could never hope to witness an Indian army in the flesh. These were the outlandish and formidable forces which he had faced in battle and crushed. Five years might have elapsed since the Persian grand army was humiliated at Gaugamela, but his army had lost none of its frightful efficiency. The victory over Porus was proof, and the coinage ensured that its implications were not lost."
- Holt mentions: "I hold in my hand one of the rarest treasures thought by some to have come from the merchants saddlebags, donated nearly 100 years ago to the British Museum by Sir Augustus Wollaston Franks. Many of the best numismatic minds of the past century have tackled this mystery. The first was Percy Gardner in 1887, whose identification of the standing figure has never since been challenged. Gardner recognized immediately the superhuman figure of Alexander the Great wielding the thunderbolt of his divine father, Zeus. But the elephant battle proved more baffling. In 1911, Barclay Head suggested that the Indian prince Taxiles, an ally of the Greeks, designed this medal to show his own heroic part in Alexanders Battle of the Hydaspes River."
 
Many of these medallions were found around Susa, in Iran.
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 09:01
The question is "Why Alexander did not invade India", when clearly he conqured half of India.
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 09:23
Originally posted by Penelope

The question is "Why Alexander did not invade India", when clearly he conqured half of India.
 
well, not really, just modern-day Pakistan and a bit more...
 
 
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  Quote M. Nachiappan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 02:15
So, you say that you do not have all the answers, but you still you call me "revisionist".
 
What you mean exactly? By calling, what you want to convey. Kindly tell me.
 
If we discuss based on evidences, give evidences. Anbyway, coming to the point (as you mentioned Gardner) -
 
Vincent Arthur Smith calls it "Porus Medal" not coin.
 
In spite of the claims made by the western scholars, no coin of Alexander has been found in the India extragangum, as the entire story is based only on literary reference (Greeks).
 
Desperately, they tried to discover at least the image of Alexander in two of so called memorial badges supposedly issued in memory of the Jhelum war between Alexander and Porus and one found in Persia and another in Babylonia.

 

Hade tried to find Alexander engraved on it, but Gardner strongly disputed it pointing out that it was used by the Greeks in Bactria between 330 and 125 BCE.
 
Hade wrote extensively on this topic, but curiously remained silent about Gardners view insisting that that it might be used in Taxila. Interestingly, Macdonell opposed both views.
 
As usual, Vincent Smith came to rescue and concurred with Hade.
 
In second badge, in fact, the persons raiding on horse were attacked by the King-like person sitting on the elephant with a spear. Here, it is surprising to note the Victor to be attacked and about to fall from the horse. Hade identified the falling figure as Alexander.
 
So naturally, we Indians doubt on this point. Is it incorrect?
 
 
 
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 04:45
Simple, Alexander did not invade India, because his army was afraid of attacking India proper. So he went back from the outer fringes.
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  Quote M. Nachiappan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2006 at 15:35
The so-called original sources of Alexander were lost long back as reported by the westerners.
 
The available material has been the compilation of 4th-5th centuries based on "Alexander Romance" literature available in different languages. Of which also, the Ethiopian texts are ignored or suppressed, because, they clearly record that Alexander was defeated by an Indian king. So he he retreated wounded, with loss of blood and died on the way due to some mystertious diseases (for this see the Alexander webs).
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  Quote dubai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2007 at 01:50
it is  well known fact that his army was totally dead tired, sick when they got to india, They just didn't have the energy and will to go on. Also india was a very strange land to the greeks. so i guess they feared the unknown too.
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2007 at 03:16
Originally posted by Yiannis

Originally posted by Penelope

The question is "Why Alexander did not invade India", when clearly he conqured half of India.
 
well, not really, just modern-day Pakistan and a bit more...
 
 
 
Fair enough.
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  Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2007 at 15:06
I have personally come across coins from the Pakistani cities of Sialkot, Gujranwala, Jhelum and Taxilla showing a victorious Alexander.  None of the two horned ones..lol The locals are very astute here, as there is a thriving commercial industry where many fakes are also made, fortunately their are many antique dealers who help to differentiate between them and one can spot the obvious fakes.
 
On the issue of why Alexander the Great didnt cross the Hyphasis river (modern border of Pakistan with india) there are many reasons some of which have already been touched on:
 
1) Alexander and has troops had been on such a long campaign away from home, family and many of them were quite aged at this point, you have to remember that life expectancy in those days wasnt as high as it is today!
 
2) Alexander had fulfilled his intention of defeating the Persian empire (which at the time included all of modern day Pakistan), infact, the Pakistani provinces of Panjab and SIndh(just as in modern times) where the richest satraps of the Persian empire and it wouldve have been foolish for Alexander not to have absorbed them into his new hellenic kingdom from a cultural and economic point of view.  Furthermore, the Hyphasis river was a natural eastern border which had existed for quite some time and Greeks built on Persian experience in the region.
 
3) Detailed Persian maps didnt extend past Pakistan -the Hyphasis river (which represented the easternmost point of the Persian empire), and thus gangetic/southern India were in essence off the map and were uncharted regions. 
 
4) the people(s) east of the Panjab where considered to be another culture and were never considered part of the Persian/middle eastern/ central Asian or meditaranean cultural sphere.  Their customs, beliefs amongst other things were considered foreign and many people didnt know too much about them!
 
6)  information/rumors had arrived, that political turmoil in Greece/Macedonia was threatening Alexander's and his proxy dependents rule to the throne.
 
7)  The military force had been spread out to thin, and Alexander wanted to consolidate his new empire.
 
8) local folklore in the indus region may have further 'psyched' out the Greek forces by telling them tales of the paganistic rituals/sterotypes held of the gangetic indians which included demon worshiping, human sacrifices, manipulative/scheming peoples and were often protrayed as an sub-human, evil dark & demonic race with mutated body forms with dysfigured faces.
 
9) The battle on the Hydapses (near the modern city of Jhelum in Pakistan), was a major turning point, in that it was the first time, considerable resistance was offered, though victorious, the battle must have left an indelable mark on Alexander and that of his troops.  Furthermore, King Poros was estimated to be close to 7ft tall and the Greeks were impressed with his military prowness and charisma, later keeping him on to rule the region afterwards.  In that battle, the regiments acclaimed mascot, Bucephala was killed, which may have been interpreted as a 'bad omen'
 
10) Another turning point was the battle near the modern Pakistani city of Multan, where Alexander was severely wounded by an arrow. 
 
So, without any first hand account of the inner workings of Alexanders camp, one will never truly know the real reason behind Alexander's military route and advances.(the same analogy can be applied to why he took certain routes through turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc..) so there will always be speculations.   I think its save to say that a number of the aforementioned factors played a part in his decision vis-a-vis the route he took.


Edited by MarcoPolo - 28-Aug-2007 at 15:10
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2007 at 15:29

MarcoPolo pretty much sums it up.

 
Incidentally jehlum, where he fought is even now the largets source of manpower for the Pak army , along with Pakhtuns. And a Pakistani armoured div, stationed nearby has Bucephala as a mascot.
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  Quote Kamikaze 738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2007 at 18:42
Originally posted by MarcoPolo

In that battle, the regiments acclaimed mascot, Bucephala was killed, which may have been interpreted as a 'bad omen'


Bucephala was not killed in the battle, it died a few days before the battle of old age. Besides that, everything looks pretty accurate assumptions. Nice post.
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  Quote Crystall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2007 at 20:26
India at that time had a huge population.... you say they were very "strong", and this is only because of the huge number of soldiers they could keep putting on the battlefields, along with elephants. All those kingdoms would eventually have alexander's army running thin.
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  Quote dubai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 00:16

Porus was very brave for sure. is there more information on him?

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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 02:32
I know this may be a bit off topic, and i apologize for it, but does anyone know WHY Alexander felt the need to invade India?
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