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Topic ClosedUyghur and Uzbek

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Uyghur and Uzbek
    Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 21:14
 I am from Tashkent and  I got a chance to go to  Xinjiang Autonnous Region .I am really suprised to see uzbek and uyghur are so alike and I can understand 80 percent of their language around .and their triditional clothes and food and I am consideried to be uyghur all the time.I know we are all turkic and we should be alike but uyghur and uzbbek are very alike and different from kazak and kyrkiz or tajik ,can someone tell me why? or the connection between them?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 15:17
Both descended largely from the settled iranian populations of Tarim basin, contrary to kazakhs and kyrgyz who are more the turkic pastoral nomads.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 16:32

IIRC Uzbek and Uyghur are both placed in the Eastern Group of Turkic Languages. The Uzbeks and Uyghurs have been sedentery for a long time too.

Chono, the Uyghurs of Tarim are more closer to Tocharians (I mean, the majority of Tarim were Tocharians before the Uyghurs came and Turkified the region) rather than to Iranics.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 16:46
I thought tocharians were related to aryans. Thanks for correction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 17:11
Well, Tocharians were Indo-Europeans but they were a different group inside the IEs, other than Iranics.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 12:48
Both are of Kurluk branch of Turks while Kazaks and Kyrgyz are of Kipchak branch.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 13:19
Well, linguisticially yes  But ethnicially, definitially not.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 21:08
tocharians where ancient poles if memory serves me correct (at least they originated in poland, or so im told)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 00:21

Again with Tocharians

The Tocharians, (also spelled Tokharians) were nomads who lived in today's Xinjiang who spoke the Tocharian languages.

They were known by the Chinese as the Daxia (, although popular sources have argued that they were in fact the same as the Yuezhi), by the Greeks as Tocharoi, and by the Turks as Twghry. A branch of the Yuezhi were the Kushan, whose loosely-constituted empire was at its height in the first centuries of the Common Era, and stretched from the Indus Valley to the Aral Sea, embracing much of the route of the Silk Road.

Earlier mummified burials suggest that precursors of these easternmost Indo-European speakers may have lived in the region of Xinjiang and the Tarim Basin from around 1000 BC until finally they were assimilated by Uighur Turks in the 8th century CE.

Their late manuscript fragments, of the 7th and 8th centuries, suggest that they were no longer either as nomadic or as barbaric as the Chinese had considered them. Besides the religious texts, the texts include monastery correspondence and accounts, commercial documents, caravan permits, and medical and magical texts. The Kushan Tocharians may have played a part in the transmission of Buddhism to China.

According to a controversial theory, early invasions by Turkic speakers may have been what pushed Tocharian speakers out and into modern Afghanistan, India, Turkmenistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan, and were known as the Kushan.

Tocharians, living along the Silk Road, had contacts with the Chinese and Persians, and Turkic, Indian and Iranian tribes. Their Buddhism, like their alphabet, came from northern India. Many apparently also practised some variant of Manichaeanism.

See external links at Tocharian languages. See also Yuezhi and Kushan.

I would really suggest you look up the Yuezhi and Kushan.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 04:31
I heard that the Tocharian language was identified in the 1980s as a Celtic language.  I also believe the mummies found in NW China were Tocharian, because we know from Chinese records that the Tocharians/Yuezhi lived as far east as Gansu province when we first hear about them (around 200 B.C.).  What clinched it for me was the announcement that some of the mummies had an early form of plaid clothing.  Contrary to what comedian Steve Martin once said, in the Tarim basin dead men DO wear plaid!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2004 at 23:33
Wow...celts in central asia....it is a small world after all...OMFG DISNEY WAS RIGHT!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2004 at 05:02

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2004 at 10:11
The Tocharians were not Celtic, they were a cathegory on their own.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2004 at 07:07

Hi,ihsan

well,if you say ethnically uyghur and uzbek are different ,then why the culture of these two nations are similar ,I mean from the mosques the uyhgur built in eastern turkistan ,I think it is more iranic ,very like in Uzbekistan ,and their triditional clothes are very like ours ,even the food ,well (I think in Estern turkistan they eat more vegetable ),kirghis and Kazakh are ethnically different but their culture and clothes even the language are almost the same ,could you tell me some detail ,especially  of root of uzbek and uyhgur before 840 AD ,is there some relation between them ?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2004 at 22:21
Both modern Uzbeks and Uyghurs are result of mixture of the Turkic steppe nomads with settled Iranic population of Transoxiana (region between Amu-Darya and Syr-Darya) and Kashgar. Before Communists they were called as "Sarts" (but I am afraid that now it sounds almost like insult? I am sorry)/ They even had second language - Iranian one in addition to the universal Turkic language of Turkestan (read for expample Paul Nazaroff "Hunted Through Central Asia" Oxford University Press). That regions were concured many times by Turkic-speaking  steppe nomads - last time by Uzbek-Kazaks.
Kazaks and Kyrgyzes had the traditional Turkic nomadic way of life till beginning of the 20th century. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2004 at 01:50
          welcome Akskl... ..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2004 at 12:12

Yes, Uighurs and Uzbeks are extremely similar. Their languages are almost completely identical. I am not sure why they were considered different peoples and why the Uzbeks of Xinjiang were not just considered Uighur.

 

BTW perdon, what was your impression of Xinjiang? I've been there as well too.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 23:28

well,sort of ancient ,especilly kashger  ,I like it any way ,it is a little bit like Khiva of Uzbekistan ,Hotan is also cool,Turfun is wonderful ,I think chinese communists doesn't change their life too much ,I mean uyhgur has worse living condition then chinese.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2004 at 21:18
Originally posted by perdon

well,sort of ancient ,especilly kashger  ,I like it any way ,it is a little bit like Khiva of Uzbekistan ,Hotan is also cool,Turfun is wonderful ,I think chinese communists doesn't change their life too much ,I mean uyhgur has worse living condition then chinese.

uyhgur are Chinese. Like Gubuk in this forum is an American,not a Korean. You are similar in culture. But culture does not equal to nationality, China is a multi-culture country like many other country of the world.

Many Han Chinese are more poorer than uyhgur Chinese. 95 percent poorers in China are Han Chinese. That's all I can tell you.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2004 at 02:53

to hannibal

  Well,i am not sure about the conception of chinese ,are you talking about the citzenship of PRC or just the ethnnic group HAn ?to be honest ,I am not a politician ,but I think uyghur in its own land are oppressed by han chinese too much ,you have to admmit ! I can tell you my experience in Xikiang a little bit !Once I set my foot in Sikiang uyhgur rigion ,I was acutally followlled by one guy from china security agency, sort of like KGB in soviet ( at that time ,I didn't know I am followed),in Sikiang Chinese and uyhgur don't talk or don't even sit togher in Resturtnt ,they are in completely different world ,I think they hate chinese too much ,I am always wrongly thought to be uyhgur ,and when I say I am from Uzbekistan ,a lot of people gather aroud me ,asking me a lot of questions ,they are very friendly ,note ,I speak uzbek ,they understand what I said if speak slowly ,uyghur tone souds strange to me ,but I can still understand them ,a guy among them can speak russian ,so we talk a little bit ,from him ,I know in Kashger 90 percent of population are uyhgur ,but in local Government ,60% are chinese ,and uyghur has not right to make decision in Government.,and a lot of Immigration are coming from estern part of china ,most of them are even Illiterate ,but still can find a good job but a lot of uyhgur graduates still cannot find a job ,mostly because they cannot speak chinese well.and han chinese communists are too curupt!  and uyhgur has to be very caregul about their religious belif ! to live in China is very difficulT!that day ,when I went back to hotel ,some policeman came to my room and asked me to careful while asking questions from uyhgur ! later ,form a uyhgur ,I knew that foreigners from post soviet central asian coutry and turkey will be followed ! well ,I can understand ,because russian did the same thing to us !

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