Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Topic: How to beat terrorism Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 09:54 |
Originally posted by genious
Well most terrorists, whether they be Osama bin Laden, Montana crazies, or Israeli settlers have one thing in common: they all want to fight over or do something involving Jerusalem. The 3 branches of the worlds most violent cultural tradition can perhaps be pacified if we simply...how should I say this...removed Jerusalem from the picture? Or at least settled it with Hindus or something. |
..
What about settling it with Chinese? We have an excess number of them. Or with Japanese? Jarusalem would be the center of world tech in a couple of years with its new skybridges combining it to Cyprus in the west and Mecca in the south. And no problems for Cyprus and holy lands would appear again, we would be three times more adventageous with a cheaper budget.
Or settle Turks there if you really hate Jarusalem that much. It would be dirtier than Istanbul in a couple of days...
The real solution of getting rid of terrorism is too hard. Now, some of them are UN members with rights to veto, and they have a couple of other terrorist colony states such as England always ready to follow their masters' orders. They also dont sign international treaties banning overdose population and they dont obey the international laws, that once they have written for their own national benefits, such as considering the hostages as life forms.
The other terrorists, who were and some of them still are fed and educated by the first group of rich ones, who dont deny they are terrorists and who dont hide it with shortening their beards and masking their purposes are easier to handle, if the 1st group of terrorist would agree on not torturing their families. So then they wont be able to torture theirs. And if the 1st group of terrorist dont try to deliver them their kind of petrolodemocracy again, they would have no obvious exccuses such as religion to feed their cowardness and they would continue to torture their own families like they usually did before and dissappear in the pages of history with their idiotic brains and hungry nations.
So just avoid the 1st group of masked terrorists to continue feeding their overrich voters, and then the second group doesnt have any chance to survive, maybe if the idiotic western medical embargos to their tens of sick children were totally ended, they can spread their genes to their new, innocent generations.
Edited by Oguzoglu
|
|
Decebal
Arch Duke
Digital Prometheus
Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 10:12 |
Most of you are missing some of the most important facts in the way the current world works:
1. Every single country needs a cheap source of energy to run its economy. That source is currently fossil fuels, particularly oil.
2. The largest reserves of oil in the world (and the cheapest to exploit) are in the Middle East. The West, and for that matter all other countries need to ensure that this source of oil is secure.
3. It is therefore a vital matter for the US (and Britain, Canada, Italy, France, etc. etc.) to do their utmost to protect this source of oil and ensure its availability by all means. This has meant a military presence in the area for the US, and also indirectly provoked the Iraq invasion. It has also meant propping up unpopular and undemocratic governments in the region (and in the world), because they ensure the security of the oil.
4. The holy places in Islam (Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem) happen to be close to the area which the US needs to secure militarily. This military presence by a non-muslim power consitutes a great offense to fundamentalist muslims.
5. The powerful Western Jewish diaspora and the Christian fundamentalist movement unconditionally support Israel. Israel controls Jerusalem and treats Palestinians rather badly. This is a big source of resentment from Arabs and muslims in general towards Israelis, and the West who supports them.
6. Islamic terrorism is caused by the resentment felt by the muslims over the US and other western military presence in the middle east and by its support of Israel.
So the solutions:
1. Lessen dependency on oil. Perhaps find an alternate source of energy. Exploit oil in other areas, such as Canada and Russia.
2. Do something about Israel. In this case I'm none the wiser! I don't know what...
|
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
|
|
Murtaza
General
Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 10:19 |
Hmm, If USA retreat from the Middle east, terrorist will win the case.
So In fact, There is not much think, USA can do against the terrorism.
For destroying terrorism, USA should lost the war. Earlier is better for world.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 10:39 |
The holy places in Islam (Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem) happen to be close to the area which the US needs to secure militarily. This military presence by a non-muslim power consitutes a great offense to fundamentalist muslims. |
Since when the Americans became others' cities so called bodyguards? Why does USA needs to militarily secure those places? Are Mecca and Medina under danger of nonChristian threats? IS USA the one to secure our lands from us?
Jarusalem is an Arab city that is holy for three big religions. Was Jarusalem under danger before UN served Jews by settling them in others' countries? Was it under torture and colonization since one thousand and five hundred years? Who cause the problem and who wears the good bodyguard mask? Com'on...
|
|
hugoestr
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 11:41 |
Originally posted by mord
This statement is not intended to diminish the horror of the attack, but terrorism has been a world-wide problem even before Sept. 11, 2001. The attacks of that date made it obvious that terrorist had grown (wrong word--sorry) only much more monsterous in their thinking and methods, but much more wide-spread.
I do not think any one post here will solve the problem of terrorism, but the situation seems to me that defeating the terrorists should begin with understanding their methods and who they are. The reasons for thier acts is, in the beginning, secondary. How do they work? Who do they recruit? How are recurits trained? How are the lower (also probably the wrong word) members within the organization/network kept in line? How are communications facilitated? Where does the money come from?
Mord. |
There are a number of these studies out there already. The main problem is the the governments don't listen.
I heard this researcher who made a human network map of Al Qeada, before and after the U.S. attacks. His conclusions were that Al Qeada, as it was before 2001, doesn't exist anymore. The people are dead, in prison, or missing.
The problem, he said, is that Al Qeada is now a franchise name. Any small group can organize a cell with no connection with the group and follow their methods and goals.
In other words, it is a very elusive task.
If you are interested, I can also tell you what the findings were about their recruitment techniques.
|
|
Decebal
Arch Duke
Digital Prometheus
Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 12:53 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
The holy places in Islam (Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem) happen to be close to the area which the US needs to secure militarily. This military presence by a non-muslim power consitutes a great offense to fundamentalist muslims. |
Since when the Americans became others' cities so called bodyguards? Why does USA needs to militarily secure those places? Are Mecca and Medina under danger of nonChristian threats? IS USA the one to secure our lands from us?
Jarusalem is an Arab city that is holy for three big religions. Was Jarusalem under danger before UN served Jews by settling them in others' countries? Was it under torture and colonization since one thousand and five hundred years? Who cause the problem and who wears the good bodyguard mask? Com'on...
|
Read the post: it's all about energy and controlling the oil supply. The US needs to secure it and control it for the US, not for the Arab countries... By coincidence, the oil supply is close to the holy cities.
Jews will disagree with you: they will say that Jerusalem is a Jewish city, which has been founded by Jews, and inhabited by them for 2000 years before the Arabs came on the scene.
The problem is that both sides have a valid point of view. There isn't a "right" and "wrong" side in this argument.
|
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
|
|
mord
Pretorian
Joined: 10-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 196
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:29 |
Originally posted by hugoestr
Originally posted by mord
This statement is not intended to diminish the horror of the attack, but terrorism has been a world-wide problem even before Sept. 11, 2001. The attacks of that date made it obvious that terrorist had grown (wrong word--sorry) only much more monsterous in their thinking and methods, but much more wide-spread.
I do not think any one post here will solve the problem of terrorism, but the situation seems to me that defeating the terrorists should begin with understanding their methods and who they are. The reasons for thier acts is, in the beginning, secondary. How do they work? Who do they recruit? How are recurits trained? How are the lower (also probably the wrong word) members within the organization/network kept in line? How are communications facilitated? Where does the money come from?
Mord.
|
There are a number of these studies out there already. The main problem is the the governments don't listen.
I heard this researcher who made a human network map of Al Qeada, before and after the U.S. attacks. His conclusions were that Al Qeada, as it was before 2001, doesn't exist anymore. The people are dead, in prison, or missing.
The problem, he said, is that Al Qeada is now a franchise name. Any small group can organize a cell with no connection with the group and follow their methods and goals.
In other words, it is a very elusive task.
If you are interested, I can also tell you what the findings were about their recruitment techniques. |
Being an information junkie, I'd like to know about the reports you mentioned. From what I understand, Al-Quaeda recruits form Arabic (or is Muslim?) students at college in other nations. They do not seem to recruit from the poor, but from young, educated middle-class or upper middle-class men--especially with technical degrees. I find this particular recruiting stratedgy troubling--sucessful revoltutions are often middle class phenomenia. Is this true?
Mord.
|
errr...left turn at vinland?
|
|
mord
Pretorian
Joined: 10-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 196
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:33 |
Originally posted by Tobodai
Well most terrorists, whether they be Osama bin Laden, Montana crazies, or Israeli settlers have one thing in common: they all want to fight over or do something involving Jerusalem. The 3 branches of the worlds most violent cultural tradition can perhaps be pacified if we simply...how should I say this...removed Jerusalem from the picture? Or at least settled it with Hindus or something. |
Folks this is a joke--
Howza 'bout the Dalai Lama?
OOOOOOMMMMMM...
Mord.
|
errr...left turn at vinland?
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:50 |
Originally posted by minchickie
Originally posted by Zagros Purya
Easy: remove US military presence from all of the middle east and central asia, that will stop islamic terrorism against the West. |
Im not quite sure if that would completely work although the U.S should get the hell out of Iraq. however the U.S has a long history of sticking its nose where it does not belong. We are the most hated country around the world! Stands to reason.
|
Yup all imperial powers throughout history have been hated. The US is no exception.
|
|
hugoestr
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 14:27 |
Originally posted by mord
Originally posted by hugoestr
Originally posted by mord
This statement is not intended to diminish the horror of the attack, but terrorism has been a world-wide problem even before Sept. 11, 2001. The attacks of that date made it obvious that terrorist had grown (wrong word--sorry) only much more monsterous in their thinking and methods, but much more wide-spread.
I do not think any one post here will solve the problem of terrorism, but the situation seems to me that defeating the terrorists should begin with understanding their methods and who they are. The reasons for thier acts is, in the beginning, secondary. How do they work? Who do they recruit? How are recurits trained? How are the lower (also probably the wrong word) members within the organization/network kept in line? How are communications facilitated? Where does the money come from?
Mord.
| There are a number of these studies out there already. The main problem is the the governments don't listen. I heard this researcher who made a human network map of Al Qeada, before and after the U.S. attacks. His conclusions were that Al Qeada, as it was before 2001, doesn't exist anymore. The people are dead, in prison, or missing. The problem, he said, is that Al Qeada is now a franchise name. Any small group can organize a cell with no connection with the group and follow their methods and goals. In other words, it is a very elusive task. If you are interested, I can also tell you what the findings were about their recruitment techniques. |
Being an information junkie, I'd like to know about the reports you mentioned. From what I understand, Al-Quaeda recruits form Arabic (or is Muslim?) students at college in other nations. They do not seem to recruit from the poor, but from young, educated middle-class or upper middle-class men--especially with technical degrees. I find this particular recruiting stratedgy troubling--sucessful revoltutions are often middle class phenomenia. Is this true?
Mord. |
It was a while ago, but I already sent the question to my wife, who is also an info-junkie. I remember that it was on CSPAN, so maybe they still have the link online. I don't remember the date though, but it was several months ago.
One of the researchers was saying exactly what you stated about recruitment in Al Qeada. He called it the "Ivy League" of terror groups. They reject most applicants.
Also, most middle class rebellions are successful because most rebellions are started by the middle classes
|
|
hugoestr
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 14:32 |
Here is the link for the conference. She is so fast
http://www.cspan.org/Search/basic.asp?BasicQueryText=terrori sm&SortBy=date&ResultStart=20
These are the links that you want once you get to the page.
PLAYNew America Foundation & NYU Law Center Panel on Al-Qaeda - Part 1 and 2
Edited by hugoestr
|
|
mord
Pretorian
Joined: 10-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 196
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 09:55 |
|
errr...left turn at vinland?
|
|
Menippos
Chieftain
Joined: 24-May-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1134
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 15:21 |
Originally posted by Cywr
Or at least settled it with Hindus or something. |
They'd demolish all the mosques/synagogues/chuches claiming they were
ancient hindu temples and the sh*t would hit the fan all over again.
Best to turn it into one giant museum under UN administration or
something, though then you'd have scams involving cheap souvenirs and
good looking young tour guides.
Its a no win situation.
|
Wouldn't you rather have that instead of a pile of dead bodies in London's morgues?
I know that you were jesting, but I actually used your comment as
leverage to make a point that in my opinion terrorists are beasts that
will never understand the values of the civilised world.
|
CARRY NOTHING
|
|
The Guardian
Shogun
Joined: 12-Jul-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 237
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 22:10 |
Originally posted by strategos
Terrorism is becoming more of a worldwide problem . I want to concentrate on radical islamic terrorism mainly, because there are many groups that are wrecking havor world wide. How can most terrorism be stopped or prevented worldwide? |
Education is the only answer.The one and only
|
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
&nb
|
|
charles brough
Immortal Guard
Joined: 26-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 23:44 |
I see a lot of good posts here---although I am disappointed that Shabanshah did not explain what the link does so one can see his point when they open it.
Zagros Purya has an answer or solution that goes right to the cause of the whole terrorist problem. It is our presence in Islam that drives recruits into the jihad groups. The longer we try to impose our way on them to protect the oil supply and, as well, Israel, the more terrorists we will have to suffer from. America has been the invader in Islam every since it gave military, diplomatic and financial aid to Israel. It is nice for the Jews to have their homeland, but driving out the Palestinians so the Jews can create their own majority at the expense of millions of refugees is quite an aggrivation! Now, the US is more aggressive still.
So, Zagros and Purya got to the heart of the matter. Jeruslem! Imagine what the rest of the world will be like when things get so bad that the Jews actually feel strong and secure enough to tear down the two mosques on the Temple Mount and rebuild their Temple there!
It is no wonder that Shalianshah looks to the future with dread. So do I. We know that the US. is not going to abandon Israel (and ignore the most powerful lobby in Congress) or dismantle its new military bases in Iraq. And we can be sure we are going to go to war next with Iran. We'll leave Syria to Israel to take care of. . .
Actually, the situation is even worse than Shalianshah pictures. He overlooked the fact that all the contestants in this terrible drama are religions that center around the coming of the End Times. Since these fanatics all believe it will end in the coming of The Lord and a Millenium of peace and lovliness, people are becoming so fed up with the terror ridden world they are beginning to welcome this dream (or nightmare)!
This whole subject is taken up fully and seriously in this link: http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
Charles
|
|
ill_teknique
Colonel
Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 636
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 01:17 |
Originally posted by strategos
Terrorism is becoming more of a worldwide problem . I
want to concentrate on radical islamic terrorism mainly, because there
are many groups that are wrecking havor world wide. How can most
terrorism be stopped or prevented worldwide? |
a - its terrorism not islamic terrorism ]islam the faith has nothing to
do with people who commit such acts because it disawows them
b - terrorism is not coming out of nowhere terrorism is a
reactionary movement to economic conditions political conditions and
especially to foriegin policy conditions such as comerical imperialsim.
you can stop it by actaully developing these countires and unmaking the
last fifty years of corrupt american diplomacy that one the one hand
went in and promised freedom and democracy but never delivered it
because it backed and backs to this day autocraitc regimes if its in
their financial favoru. Gadafi is an early example he was a cia
informant. Saddam was an example. The Saudis are a prime
example of this they shoould not be in power for a- whaabisim is not
real islam b- they are autocratic and very antiliberal and
antidemocratic but they are flourishing because american govt has
fininacial interests with them. So basiclly there is false hope
given to a populace. Palestine is another example, there are kids
who have grown up and spend their entire lives in refugee camps because
they were kicked out of their land. To fix that situation you
need to stop having a diplomacy that is very polarized towards the
israelis but one that is fair and balanced. These kids grow up
without access to education jobs etc and when you are ina situation
where you feel no one gives a f*** about you you stop giving one too
and it is easy to be influenced by groups that promise a better life
etc. Look at Hitler how did he attain his positin because he
capitalized on the suffering of a whole nation.
this is only a little i've read articles books and writeen many papers
on this subject and discussed it its very deep and alll sides need to
be explored because you ccannont start at point C to find out whats
wrong.
you have to go back to point a and find out how was it possible for
this person to even get to point b where he picked up this hoplessnes
and thoughts that would bring him to point c of doing the act.
its easy to blame him but really ther conditions that were created
because of european and american involvement in the past have more to
do with this because they wouldnt have created an enviroment that
such thoughts and acts could be fostered in.
|
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 11:05 |
Originally posted by mord
From what I understand, Al-Quaeda recruits form Arabic (or is Muslim?) students at college in other nations. They do not seem to recruit from the poor, but from young, educated middle-class or upper middle-class men--especially with technical degrees. I find this particular recruiting strategy troubling--sucessful revoltutions are often middle class phenomenia. Is this true?
|
People in those categories tend to have higher suicide rates, at least in Western countries. If you are looking for people with the profile to be suicide bombers, that's the place to start,
|
|
ArmenianSurvival
Chieftain
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 15:56 |
A couple of people touched on the real answer of the original question. If you want to get rid of terrorism, leave the middle east alone. Not just Iraq, im talking about the whole region.
Terrorists obviously dont care if they die, so how long do you think the west can go by fighting people who dont care about dying? Terrorists fight for ideology, the west fights for capital gain. In the end, sorry to say, ideological causes will defeat a materialistic society anytime. Theyre not fighting for money, they believe they are fighting to protect their homes. So go ahead, keep fighting terrorism with guns and bombs, spend billions on security, it wont make a difference. The ONLY way to get rid of terrorism, is to take away their cause. In order to take away their cause, we must take away their injustice. And theres a lot of injustice that we must relieve them of.
|
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance
Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
|
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 16:26 |
Originally posted by minchickie
Terrorists dont just breed overnight wanting to attack! The Americans and British are prime targets for terrorism. Has anyone ever wondered why? |
And the Spaniards and the Turks and the Greeks. And the Algerians and Moroccans and the Saudis. And the Russians. And the Israelis. And...?
|
|
Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 16:38 |
They dont attack without reason, is this reason justify killing innocent?
No.
So lets give all they want, So this guys will stop.
than will come new terrorist groups. Because they will see to gain their aim, they can use terrorism as best choice.
To give what they want will destroy these terrorists, but It will enforce terrorism.
|
|