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what happened to the kumans?

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  Quote maersk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: what happened to the kumans?
    Posted: 05-Jul-2005 at 22:01
after they where defeated by the mongols its like they vanished from history.  a few ended up on the borders of hungary but other than that its like they just vanished
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  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2005 at 22:08
AFAIK They were Turks
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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 13:56
Theyre still Kumans i think in Chuvashistan, also Chuvash language is the oldest Turkic dialect that exist.
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  Quote Aygucu Tonyukuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 16:29

Lazlarn Kuman Trklerini torunlar olduuna inanlr. Ve "Kpak ve Kuman ayn eydir" diye duymutum.

Lazs are believed to be the grandsons of Kuman Turks. And I have heard that Kuman is the synonym of Kpak.

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 22:37
Originally posted by Aygucu Tonyukuk

Lazlarn Kuman Trklerini torunlar olduuna inanlr. Ve "Kpak ve Kuman ayn eydir" diye duymutum.

Lazs are believed to be the grandsons of Kuman Turks. And I have heard that Kuman is the synonym of Kpak.

I thought Laz were related to Georgians.

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 22:39

Originally posted by Kenaney

Theyre still Kumans i think in Chuvashistan, also Chuvash language is the oldest Turkic dialect that exist.

Actually I think it's the oldest western dialect.  I'm sure the oldest dialect all around is probably one of the ones spoken in Siberia.  They have had less influence on their language than any other Turks, I think.

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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 01:18
Kumans spoke a Qipchaq language and those who speak Qipchaq language in russia are descendants of them, Actually they defeated mongols because main language of golden Horde after a few generation became Qipchaq.
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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 03:49

 

Cumans were a privilegized group in Medieval Hungary under the direct authority of the King and the Count Palatine (dominus cumanorum). Later this privilegium was common with the iranian jszok and ceased to exist only in 1853. I suppose the last people in Hungary who could speak cuman language as mother tongue were died in the begining of the XX. century.

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 16:23

Originally posted by Hushyar

Kumans spoke a Qipchaq language and those who speak Qipchaq language in russia are descendants of them, Actually they defeated mongols because main language of golden Horde after a few generation became Qipchaq.

thats not completely true, Volga Bulgars (todays Tatars of Tatarstan) also speak a Qypchaq dialect but they're ethnically not Qypchaq.

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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 16:50

Temujin:

I have no claim on this issue ,but I think you made a mistake.Volga Bulghars are ancestors of Chuvash not Tatars. Check your sources

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 17:10
Chuvash and Volga Bulgars are two different people who just happen to be similar. perhaps Bulgars mixed with the lcoal Chuvash when they've arrived in the Volga/Kama region and settled there, but they certainly were of Bulgar ancestry. of course today they don't identify themselves anymore as Bulgars.
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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 00:43

Temujin I don't know chuvash  or Qipchaq and I'm not a linguistic at all, I just copy my sources:

This is britanica: (chuvash)

The Chuvash speak a Turkic language and claim to be descended from the Bolgars who in the 4th century AD migrated from Central Asia to the region west of the Volga River. It is not unlikely that they representan amalgamation of Bolgars with the tribes then living in the area. Theirlanguage is very different from other Turkic languages.


and this is (chuvash language) :

Chuvash constitutes a separate and distinct branch of the Turkic languages that differs considerably from the so-called Common Turkic languages; it is the only modern descendant of the extinct Volga-Bolgarian language. Formerly, scholars considered Chuvash to be a Turkicized Finno-Ugric (Uralic) language or an intermediary branch between Turkic and Mongolian. The distinct character of Chuvash is also indicated by its lack of mutual intelligibility with the other Turkic languages.

This is Encarta: (chuvashia)

Between 10th and 15th centuries,Intermariage between a local finno-ugric population and turkic-speaking Volga-Bulgarian Tribesof south produced the ancestors of the chuvash people.

 

 



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  Quote giani_82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 08:28

Originally posted by Temujin

Chuvash and Volga Bulgars are two different people who just happen to be similar. perhaps Bulgars mixed with the lcoal Chuvash when they've arrived in the Volga/Kama region and settled there, but they certainly were of Bulgar ancestry. of course today they don't identify themselves anymore as Bulgars.

The Chuvash dialect is still used to read proto-bulgarian inscriptions, so I guess the relation between the two tribes is closer than you think (I'm not an expert though, so it's quite possible i have a wrong opinion on this one)

About the kumans - many of them settled in Bulgaria, and especially in Macedonia and around Sofia. They assisted bulgarians on several occasions (though we had clashes as well). It's been a while since I last studied that matter, so may be later when I check it out I could give more info.

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  Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 22:00
Cumans, or Comans, or Kypchaks is a Turkic nomadic tribe, and they are part of modern Kazakhs today (see www.elim.kz), as well as a part of some other close to Kazakhs peoples.
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