@Morteg, I agree with you.. And to add more

Originally posted by strategos I was looking at the FYROMians main website, quite humorous i might say,  and I found an article on how the Byzantine Empire was not a Hellenic Empire. I know it ruled over diverse people, but was it not mainly Hellenic at heart? What are your thoughts?

To be frank in many ways it was largely influenced by Greek Culture and so on. In fact some of the best emperors and Generals of Byzantine Empire were Greek Decedents, who took the Empire to it's heights.

Edited by shock and thunder - 18-Aug-2015 at 11:15

Originally posted by Belisarius No, it was actually a very good analogy. True it was that the Byzantines in their devotion to Christianity destroyed many monuments from ancient Greece because of their pagan history.

Funny to hear this because Byzantium is generally regarded as the only direct link between classical antiquity and modern times. No Byzantium would mean no classical studies, no Italian renaissance and the list goes on. Byzantine education encompassed all aspects of classical knowledge which was preserved into modern times. Also you'd be surprised to know how many pagan Hellenic art existed in Constantinople. The Theodosian walls were decorated with the labors of Hercules and the streets of Constantinople contained statues of the Olympian gods. Nicetas Choniates describes a huge, golden statue of Athena which was destroyed during the anti-latin mob riots of 1202. All of those treasures were looted during the sack of the city.

Btw, Romaios (pron. Romeos) is a citizen of the western Roman Empire. Romios is the word the Greeks used for themselves after the banning of Hellen.

Komnenos said: "That over the centuries the B.E. was reduced to a territory that allowed for a identity between ethnicity and state, namely today's Greece, might explain why the term "Romaioi" eventually became synonymous with the population of Greece, and why the Turks called the Greeks "Rum"."

Komnenos I think you're missing a few key points of both medieval and modern Greek history. "Romaioi" has been restricted to the Greeks of Greece only for the last 80 years, i.e. ever since the great population exchange between Greece and Turkey, when all ethnic Greeks from Asia Minor and later Constantinople went to Greece. In the 19th century there were more ethnic Greeks outside the Greek state rather than within it. Also you're also missing the fact that ever since the days of Jusinian I and until 1453, all Europeans referred to the Byzantine Empire as Greece and its people as Greeks in an ethnic sense. This is valid for Latins and Slavs alike. Also you seem to be completely ignorant of the modern Greek proto-nationalism which was born within the Byzantine Empire, starting with Psellos and reaching its peak in 1204. Then the term "Hellene" is returned to official use. The Byzantines did use another ethnic term prior to those events, that would be the Greek word "Graikos". This word was a synonym to "Rhomaios" though less frequently used (see the 6th c. trial of Abba Maximus when the monk was asked in Constantinople "why do you love the Romans and hate the Greeks"). Most scholars agree that the Greek Rhomaios was merely a political term and was only used within Byzantium. In other words the Byzantine Empire is considered as Eastern Roman until Heraclius, Greek until 1204 (see G. Ostrogorsky) and Hellenic until 1453.

You're obviously a person who is interested in the history of that state, however that does not give you the right to belittle Greek history and use such blunt language. Some of your arguments are really absurd and your tone does indeed imply a bias. The reason you are being so one-sided is due to the recent interest that western scholarship has shown in Byzantine culture. If the Ottoman Empire was somehow discovered to have been influencing western culture then people would argue that "Ottomans weren't Turks" and that "Sassanians weren't Iranians". This is how amateur western scholarship and revisionism works. Regards.


Edited by Scipion - 30-Aug-2007 at 23:05

Originally posted by Yiannis Originally posted by merced12 i found it leo4 he was a khazar turks "Sh*tnamed" -Kopronymos, "

.That was good!

Also we have the naming of the dynasties/emperors according to their land of origin, irregardles of nationality. Like the Illyrian, the Isaurian, the Makedonian etc. The Makedonian, for instance, came from a clear Greek-Armenian bloodline, it doesn't mean that Basil I and his offspring (or, actually, Michael's offsrping, according to Byzantine gossip ) were of some "Makedonian" ethnic group.

i found it leo4

he was a khazar turks

Leo IV

Many monuments? That's an understatement. I've found this little list in another forum. Enjoy...

- In 335 AD Constantine the great (a saint of the Christian church) orders the destruction of hundreds of �pagan� temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and the crucifixion of all �wizards and diviners�. Unluckily, the Christian church considers scientists and philosophers also �wizards and diviners� and hunts them down to. The neoplationic philosopher and scientist Sopater (Sopatros) was among those crucified.
- 341 AD and Constantius bans officially the �hellenizein� trait � worship of Greek gods, practicing of philosophy, experimenting, thinking. Hundreds of philosophers get slaughtered or imprisoned. Only five years later, the Christian mob in Constantinople performs an impressive anti-Hellen pogrom in Constantinople. The philosopher and author Livanius is exiled.
- On 359 AD the first death camp known in history is being created in Skythopolis, Syria. It�s sole reason for existence is the concentration of every free-thinking person from throughout the empire � like 99% of them were put to death in that camp.
- On 364 Flavius Joviannous, an avid Christian, orders the burning of the great library of Antioch, in the name of the Christian god. Thousands of books are rendered into ashes.
- Valence, another avid Christian, in cooperation with the Church, begins another great empire-wide pogrom of the �pagans� from 370 to 373. The philosopher Simonides is burn on the stake, Maximus is decapitated, Patricius and Ilarius are getting the crucifixion treatment. Thousands of books are being burned � Valens� orders are clear �eliminate all the Nationals and their works�.
- The greatest �holy warrior� of Christianity, Theodosios (the so-called �The Great) initiated the greatest pogrom against the non-christians ever, on 380. Whatever survived the previous attacks is now being torn down. Libraries get burned; most of the philosophy schools still open are being closed down. The same emperor appointed Maternus Cynegius and his horde of fanatic Christian monks, to find and destroy every non-Christian written work. In the subsequent four years (385-390) Cynegius and his monks complete the destruction.
- On 391 in Alexandria, the drama reaches its culmination: the remnants of Bibliotecha Alexandrina, the greatest library and center of knowledge of the ancient world, are being burned. The Serapion, hosting the precious tomes containing the last fragments of the ancient Graeco-Roman body of knowledge, is burned to the ground.
- The 4th ecclesiastic convention in Carthage bans on 398 the study of the Greek writings (all Greek writings) even for the Christian bishops!
- And, as an icing to the cake, on 415 the monks and guards of the Patriarchy of Alexandria, arrest the greatest scientist still alive, the lady Hypatia, a great mathematician and philosopher. They drag her inside the temple of St Michael, rip off her clothes, skin her alive with seashells, break all her bones and then cut her into small pieces.