Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Us victory at the battle midway

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
tommy View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 13-Sep-2005
Location: Hong Kong
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 533
  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Us victory at the battle midway
    Posted: 19-Jan-2016 at 05:22
Actually, which was the most important reason that contributed to the american victory at the battle of Midway

Some people stated that the most important reason was the decision of bomb replacemant . Admiral Nagumo Chūichi was puzzling on the decision of striking, who shall be the first target, the US carrier, or the island Midway, so he made very confusing order, so the bombs and the torpedo were being replaced with each other for serveral time, and at this confusing moment, the US bombers came, they dropped bombs, at the deck of the carriers was full of bombs and torpedos, and they exploded immediately, then the carriers were destroyed

Another group people suggested that the misbehaviour of the zero was the main reason for the Japanese defeat, if they did not fly low to chase the survivors of the American torpedo, then they could cover the Japanede carrires, and the US bombers would be repulsed, only when the zero flew low above the sea level to chase the American survivors of the torpedo planes, then the Japanese carriers were left unprotected, the Us bombers took the chance, they striked and destroyed the Japanese carriers,

And what is your opinion, which was the more important reason for the Japanese Defeat?
leung
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14852
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2016 at 05:35
Small market limits your power as in Age of Empires.What about today?Japanese economy depends of markets that are it's competition.All market is interconnected.Join them and play the game,killing nobody at all!More wealthy consumers bigger profit it is!Welcome aboard Tommy!Smile
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10111
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2016 at 09:43
Most important reason, imo, was the fact that the US had broken the Imperial Navy's code. We knew where they were going to attack.

Once the battle started, the Japanese were unaware the US navy was nearby. The element of surprise had shifted.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
tommy View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 13-Sep-2005
Location: Hong Kong
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 533
  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2016 at 06:16
Breaking code was an important reason, but it was at the strategic level, but at the tactical level, which was the more important reaon
leung
Back to Top
Tiger of Kai View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 19-Jul-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 97
  Quote Tiger of Kai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2016 at 08:43
I agree with Red about the breaking of the code. However, of your two choices, the former was certainly had more to do with Japan's defeat. 
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2016 at 17:07
Tactically if ya want the USCGSC opinion....the carrier/s. Midway itself could have been dealt with at liesure after that' viz BS-Cruiser gunfire and aviation action. As the loss of any or all American carriers would have prevented immediate, effective, air protection for surface relief ships.

But American strat intell aforehand allowed for Midway's reinforcement... to a point; which in turn allowed the Americans Carrier fleet to concentrate on attacking the opposing Nippon fleet.

Realitively assured that the island could hold while counter actions might be conducted.



Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 25-Jan-2016 at 21:53
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
tommy View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 13-Sep-2005
Location: Hong Kong
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 533
  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2016 at 08:27
But even when the japanese crew members were replacing bomb with torpedo, or vice vera, the explosive items were full on the deck, but if the Zero could provide high air cover,then the American would not have any chances, it was the fact, before the Amercan bombers had come, the American torpedo planes had launched attack, at that time, Japanese crew members were changing torpedo with bomb, but the Zero still flew highly on the sky, they replused the American torpedo, only after this, the Zero flew low to the sea level, to chase the remaining American planes, as well as the survivors, so the air cover of the Japanese fleet was lost at that moment, and the Amercan bombers seeked this moment to launch the attack, destroying the Japanese carriers, if the Zero did not fly low, they would repluse the bomebrs, the latter would share the same fate of the torpedo planes, then Japanese would possibily win the war, since all American planes, bombers or torpedo planes, were destroyed, and the Midway was also suffered the heavy damage, then who was the winner? Quite Clear
leung
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2016 at 17:05
All tactical mistakes during the action...which I won't quibble over.

But would it have been decisive enough for Americans to have sought a separate peace? No. American industrialization wasn't even peaking yet in Dec 1940. Which means fast fleet vessels, and equipment of all types would have been replaced relatively quickly. The Americans had a distinct and superior advantage in resources and mass production over Nippon. The cultural animosity and bitterness over PH was too great only weeks later.



Further, the Japanese had no real ability; ie. move it surreptitiously and sustain it....to launch an invasion fleet and or occupation of the American west coast mainland. Nor was it there intent.

Had the Americans lost Midway and for that matter even Hawaii and the Alaska coastline...the burden was Japanese to defend it. Lines of communication would have been enormous and subject to constant harassment from varying sources to include a relocated Atlantic fleet.

In effect the Americans would have merely adopted the 'defense in depth' posture, later elucidated in the 1970's, until their strat capabilities were replaced to conduct offensive ops.

To assume more is to assume incorrectly Japanese intent and ability to fight and sustains a 2 ocean front conflict; which the Americans and allies could eventually.... in a rapid space of time....do.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2016 at 15:27
Otoh and I forgot to mention it...I like the way you think Tommy. Keep questioning...and keep learning.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10111
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2016 at 16:49
To illustrate what CV was re the US war industry, At Midway we had 3 operational carriers. At the surrender signing, we had 41 carriers operational, and 8-9 on the ways.

Even at the incredible rate we were producing war material, it would have taken until 1965 before we maxed out.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2016 at 20:06
And.................if anybody would know this.....it's 'ole Red' and me.

His 'ole man' and two of my uncles were on board ships; support and combat, in the fight against the Axis. And in one uncles's case, that included the rising sun of Nippon.

amen.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.111 seconds.