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who is the earliest historically attested Pope

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: who is the earliest historically attested Pope
    Posted: 04-Oct-2015 at 04:22
Hello, i do not want to cause/stir any problems with catholics, but i just want/need to find out for my own personal research interest/info : can anyone please help me find out who the earliest historically attested pope/s is/are. (I am meaning persons/names, not just Petrine "apostolic succession". And not just in spurious church literature/writings (1 Clement) or just in bible (Peter); and contemporary, not just latter sources. And if any are dubious/spurious/disputible, then i will instead need the next earliest after him until we agree on one that is fairly certainly the earliest.)

(I see that there is a History of the Papacy ebook in the allempires ebooks, but not sure the answer is in there, and/or it will take some time to go looking all through.)

(There is a topic/thread maybe sort-of on this ( http://www.allempires.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21045&KW=pope&PN=1&SID=a8feczc4b7e882996ab2da5z6fed64b9 ) but i don't want my question being lost/swallowed-up in all the pages/posts by posting this in page 6 there.)

(They have not yet investigated and/or fixed the problems here that i mentioned so i'm sticking-to not posting here anymore, and am only posting this question because i need help to find out (and i was unfairly "suspended" ("banned") from historum so i can't ask there).)

The possibly earliest historically attested pope(s) so far:
- Eusebius wrote histories [not sure he is same as the pope of same c 310 date(s) though?].
- Mark compile stories of martyrs c 330s. (Believed he founded 2 churches.)
- Siricius letters/decretal/decree c 390.
- Leo 1 wrote the Tome c 450. (Council Chalcedon. Supposedly met Attila the Hun.)
- Gelasius letters/essays 490s.
- Gregory prolific writer c 600. (Employed titles. Gregorian chant. Augustine.)
- edict of the Emperor Phocas, in a.d. 606, constituting Boniface III.
- Adeodatus 615-8 lead seals on documents/bulls.
- Honorius 1 correspondence with Sergius of Constantinople c 630. (Anathemised by Council of Constantinople.)
- Vitalian earliest recorded use of pope in English mid-10th cent.
Though some still maybe don't actually historically attest the person/name as genuine (and not just like a pseudonym) outside of church literature.

(That is excluding the dubious:
- "Peter/Cephas" in Matthew 16 & 1 Clement. Via Appia archaeological evidence [but may be Paul's house not Peter's house].
- "Linus" in NT [but doesn't mention him as pope/bishop/succesor].
- "Clement" issued '1 Clement' c 90s [but it is spurious].)



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 04-Oct-2015 at 05:47
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2015 at 06:58
Constantine!?!Or Roman Empire was secular state than!?!
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2015 at 15:17
AR...the better question is.... who was the first historically attested Bishop of Rome. For if your going to deny the criterion used by others as spurious... you established-identified....then you are left with a conundrum. For if you deny early RCC sources; than the best one can do is use sources of later eras. That ntl were influenced by the former.

And I would in general agree with the source I provide below. Reference paucity of records

See: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2jhahz/who_is_the_first_historically_verifiable_pope_of/

best
CV

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 04-Oct-2015 at 18:46
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2015 at 09:08
Yes i can't find anything earlier than Constantine either.

I have good reasons for not trusting church sources. We have found that the first 46 popes match Roman emperors. (I wasn't going to post it since i don't want to upset God, devil or humans/catholics.) Here is a copy of my recent post on christianityboard.com forum.

Notes: Sorry i can't add dates for the emperors and popes. They were very clever giving very similar names, it would be like emperor Sean being called pope Seamus. It looks like the first 5 emperors were paralleled with the next 5 in line with Domitian being considered a reincarnation of Nero.


1 Augustus ~ Nero (1 Peter/Cephas)

2 Tiberius ~ usurpers Otho/Galba/Vitellius (na/2 Linus)

3/4 Gaius/Caligula & Claudius ~ Vespasian & Titus (na/3/4 Anacletus & Cletus)

4/5 Nero & Domitian (2/4/5 Clement).



Popes ~ Roman Emperors.
00 "John the Baptist" (Baphomet) ~ Gnaeus Pompeius?
0 "Jesus Christ" (J.C., trinity, crucified, cross, baptised, bc/ad calendar, 30 yrs, condemned by 70/72 sanhedrim, virgin-born, successor/rep Cephas) ~ Julius Caesar (J.C., deified, triumvir, crucified pirates, cross rubicon, , calendar, assasinated by 60+2 in senate, Gallia/Gaul, aimed at kingship, reform, Venus, successor Caesar Augustus, laurel wreath)?
1 "(St/Simon) Peter/Petrus/Cephas/Kep(h)a" (upsidedown cross, 66 y.o., Hermes' house, Caesarea Philippi) ~ Nero(n) Caesar (antichrist 616/666)? &/or Caesar Augustus (1st, heir of Julius Caesar)? &/or Praetorian? &/or Paul (Paul's house)? [Simon Magus?]
na/2 "Linus" ~ usurper(s Galba & Otho &) Vitellius? &/or Tiberius (2nd)?
na/3/4 Anacletus &/or Cletus (Greece) ~ Titus Flavius Vespasian(us)? (&/or Titus Flavius Domitian?) &/or Claudius?
2/4/5 Clement/Clemens I ('1 Clement', knew Timothy) ~ Titus Flavius Domitian(us) (reincarnation of Nero, persecution policy/declaration, Timothy)? &/or Nero (5th)?
5 Ev-aristus (Bethlehem) ~ Nerva? (&/or Trajan (sound admin, improved social conditions, modest)?) [&/or good birth? &/or Eucharist?]
6 Alexander I ~ Trajan (fine soldier, extended empire, "thinking aloud of Alexander the Great" in Charax, Ignatius)?
7 Sixtus/Xystus I ~ 12 Caesars? or legio Sextae? (or Lucius Artorius Castus?)
8 Telesphorus ~ ?
9 Hyginus/Yginos (Athens) ~ Hadrian(us)/Adriatic (Ignatius)? (&/or Antoninus Pius?)
10 Pius I ~ Antoninus Pius?
11 Anicetus/Anicitus (Emesa) ~ Titus Aurelius Antoninus Pius (138/139)? or Lucius/Marcus Aurelius Verus? or M Aurelius Antoninus Commodius?
12 Soter((i)us) ~ M Aurelius Verus (Stoic/study)? or Sothis/Sirius (Antoninus Pius 138/139)?
13 Eleutherius/Eleuterus (Nicopoli, Christian king Lucius) ~ L(ucius) Aurelius Verus? (or Helvius Pertinax? or Commodius (pleasure, Hercules)?) [&/or Lucius Artorius Castus?]
14 Victor I (Africa) ~ civil wars 193-197? &/or military commanders (African emperors)? or Severus (commander of legions, military despotism, army)? or Marcus Aurelius (campaign against Germans)? or Commodius (Hercules)?
15 Zephyrinus ~ Septim(i)us Severus?
16 Callistus/Cal(l)ixtus I ~ Caracalla?
16-19 antipope Hippolytus ~ Heliogabalus/Elagabalus (Baal)?
17 Urban(us) I ~ Publius Septimus Geta? &/or M Opellius Macrinus? (or M Aurelius Severus Alexander??)
18 Pontian(us) ~ Pupienus? or Gordianus 1/2? [Gordian knot & Pontus?] (or Bassianus??)
19 Anterus ~ Alexander Severus? &/or C Julius Verus Maxim(in)us Thrax? (or M Antonius Gordianus?)
20 Fabian(us) (7) ~ (Pupienus? &/or) Balbinus?
21 antipope Novatian(us) ~ Volusianus (Hostilianus)? (or Latinius Postumus?)
21 Cornelius (hardship) ~ Gordianus 3/2/1?
22 Lucius I ~ Lucius Domitius Aurelianus? (or Lucius Aelianus? or P Licinius Valerianus or P Linicius Egnatius Gallienus? (or Volusianus??))
23 Stephanus/Stephen I ~ Ulpia Severina? (or Hostilianus??) or  Valerian (martyrs)?
24 Xystus/Sixtus II (Athens) ~ Tacitus/Tegid?
25 Dionysius ~ Probus (farming)?
26 Felix I ~ Florianus? (or Valerianus? (or Philippus??))
27 Eutychian(us) (Luni) ~ Numerianus? (or Tacitus?)
28 Caius/Gaius (martyred, Dalmatia) ~ Caius Aurelius Diocletian(us) (persecution)? (&/or Carus &/or Carinus?)
29 Marcellinus ~ Marcus Aurelius Maximianus? &/or Maximinus? (&/or Licinius?)
30 Marcellus I ~ Maximinus? &/or Marcus Aurelius Maxentius? &/or Galerius? (or Marcus Aurelius Maximianus?)
31 Eusebius (Sard) ~ Severus?
32 Miltiades/Melchiades ~ Maximinus Daia? &/or Maxentius?
33 Silvester/Sylvester I (Nicea, St Croce) ~ Constantine I the Great (cross, Milvian)? [maybe compare pope Sylvester 3 ~ emp Constantine 9?]
34 Marcus/Mark ~ Maxentius? &/or Magnus Magnentius?
35 Julius/Iulius I Rusticus ~ Julian the Apostate? (&/or Julius Constans &/or Julius Constantius 2?)
36 Liberius ("sign heretical creed") ~ Jovian? or Julian the Apostate? or Licinius (pagan)?
36b antipope Felix II ~ Valens (east)?
37 Ursicinus/Ursinus ~ Vetranio? or Theodosius (brown bear)? &/or Aurelius Ursicinus (Hoxne hoard)? &/or general Ursicinus? or Arcadius?
37 Damasus I (Portugal) ~ Theodosius (christianity)? [St James/Iago?]
38 Siricius/Sicirius ~ Gratian(us)?
39 Anastasius I ~ Arcadius?
40 Innocent(ius)/Innocens I (Visigoths) ~ Valentinian 1/2?
41 Zosimus/Zosimas ~ Theodosius 1/2?
42 Eulalius ~ Eugenius? or Flavius Claudis Constantine 3? &/or Flavius Constantius 3? &/or Flavius Honorius? or Alaric/Arian?
42 Boniface/Bonifacius I ~ Honorius? (or Eugenius?)
43 Celestine/Caelestinus I ~ Constantine 3? (&/or Constantius 3? &/or Valentinian 3? or Honorius (Coloseum)?)
44 Sixtus/Xystus Tertius/III ~ Avitus?
45 Leo I Magnus (Huns 451) ~ (Petronius Maximus? &/or) Julius Majorianus (fine soldier, peace treaty Vandals 461)? &/or Livius Severus? &/or Leo 1 (Byzantine)?
46 Hilarius (Sard) ~ Oylbrius? &/or Glycerius? (&/or Honorius (Telemachus)??)


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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2015 at 12:46

Sorry just found a correction: 2nd pope Linus ("flax-coloured hair") actually matches emperor T Flavius Vespasian (Flavian "yellow-coloured hair"). That pretty much gives the final proof.

Also, Telesphorus means "accomplisher, bringer of completion" which might match Hadrian's Wall (and the dates seem to roughly coincide).

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2015 at 14:59
I wont disagree because of the anti RCC conotations AR...but because of the historical record in association with the Emperors. And their eventual outcomes. Versus the fact that the vast majority of the first Popes/BOR were claimed as martyrs of their faith. And the Roman emperors were noted paganists.

And as such a claim that the early Roman Emperors were 'closet' Christians...is to say the least....dubious. Or vice versa reference the BoR's being paganists.

Traditional scholarship rejects this.


For the simple reason, it would require a rewrite and dismissal of not only traditional Christian sources but equally that of traditional Roman sources (anti-Christian) of the era.

Iow..it's a question that can not be easily resolved. If at all.

One example will suffice.

Vespasian-Titus=Cletus.

''Seutonius' "The Lives of the Twelve Caesars"..claims he (Vespasian) died of diarrhea. Titus, same source, dies of a fever........which quite possibly could have been rapid malaria....a prevalent disease of the region and era.

Cletus otoh...there is no specific cause of death given by the traditional sources....merely statements of fact.

Both Seutonius and Tacitus; Pliny as well... describe Christianity as a 'superstition'..which means, no Roman emperor in his right mind would have adopted it..in contrary to an already 700 year established Roman religious mythos.

The expulsion of the Jews, from Rome, during the reign of Claudius supports this premise; as mainstream believes that as far as the Roman were concerned their was little separation between Jews and early Christians. And it's quite likely, afaic, that the reason behind the expulsion was as traditionally noted.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudius%27_expulsion_of_Jews_from_Rome


And again no credible source supports an ideology that the early Roman emperors were anything but what they have been purported.



I wont even address the dichotomy of a Caligula or Nero.

So at this point, an equation of the early Bishops of Rome as name reassignments of the Emperors; for I presume this is what your attempting-correct me if I'm wrong, is improbable imo. In my mind the ancient scholars named above confirm this.

But I wish you well in your research...no matter where it takes you.

best
CV

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 05-Oct-2015 at 19:00
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2015 at 06:51
I am not claiming the emperors were "closest christians" . I am claiming that the early "popes" are (semi-)fake, as they were really emperors as can be seen in the table/list.

I am not "anti RCC". But I am Anti that when i make discoveries that eveyrone denies and plays every negative against me. The matches are stark, how anyone can deny it is beyond me. Doubt some yes maybe, but doubt/deny all no. People are clearly not objective: not looking at the evidence/correspondences openly/objectively without prejudice/subjective (like things you wrote).

The only thing that matters for dis/proof is the evidences/details/correspondences.

The matches are stark/definite. No other arguments like would "have to rewrite" history matter. "Rewrite" what? There is no historical verification of the claims/stories about the early popes.

That the popes were supposed martyrs doesn't actually dis/prove anything.

I am not "attempting" anything. I merely was objectively looking into the claims about Peter and the keys and discovered that the first 46 popes certainly match the emperors all in order in names/meanings, details and dates or order.

Any genuine objective scholar/historian would/should know that only by discussing that actual details/evidences/correspondences dis/proves anything.
Please prove that pope Alexander doesn't/can't match in name/meaning/details/order/dates Trajan who was "thinking aloud of Alexander the great" at Charax.
Same with all the others including Zephyrinus & Severus, etc.
There is no way that it can be wrong or coincidence that the first 46 + popes names are all very similar to the Roman emperors, and all match in order. What would convince you/people?

No one ever agrees with me on anything all my "life" so far (except that Red Clay once said i might possibly be right about one thing). I hate myself.

Once the meter reader has been this week, & if i am able to, i hopefully will be quiting this and not "wasting time" anymore time on this (because my motives seemingly may be wrong and i fear God & devil & man, and because i have other things i need and want to do, and because i don't have the time & health & situation & resources).
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2015 at 07:16
What i meant was the papacy is closet imperials, not that emperors were closet christians. I do not know what date the popes become historical. The first 46+ popes certainly were emperors not genuine popes. I don't know what date that the imperialists hi-jacked and faked it. Sorry i meant no offense to anyone, but there is no doubt the discovery is true and the truth must be known (if/when God wills). My only interest is that it hurts to make discoveries and have no people/peers to share them with and have no positives only negatives. (The sample text in upload image here is Latin or Romance/Italic!)

Looks like the persecution against me has already begun since i am having touble loading pages and posting in this forum/thread ( http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21946-popes-office-in-the-bible/page-2 ). So i have to anser them here. (Though they may delete everything i posted on that and this forum.) I suggest anynone interested keep a copy just in case something happens to me and or my records &/or posts.

"No pope could be [Roman] emperor [&/or vice-versa]"?
The picture of John Paul 2 looks pretty much like emperor/caesar to me. The imperial eagle in the picture of Gregory 1 looks like emperor to me. The eagle on stand in churches. The talk of protestant/nonconformist "rebelion". Pictures of the popes sitting on Throne. the popes wearing crown. the caesar/kepha similarity. The Roman/Rome. That the first 46 + popes match Roman emperors. Etc.

"No[t] could possibly"?
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." - Arthur C Clarke.
Though i note that Centrix says only "improbable".

Roman emperors could not beat it so they "joint" it.

"All roads lead to Rome".
"Rome wasn't built in a day".
"When in Rome do as the Romans do".

The papacy can not be all of Peter, Eliakim, Jezebel/Pergamum, white horseman, the harlot Babalon, the little horn &/or/of the (sea-)beast/antichrist, the lamb-dragon, etc.




Edited by Arthur-Robin - 06-Oct-2015 at 07:27
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2015 at 13:58
Calm down AR...no one is persecuting you or attempting to dissuade you from your position...I'm merely not agreeing with for the reasons I stated.

Be wary that paranoia stays caged...because friends don't seek you harm.

best
CV
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2015 at 01:20
I'll just see if this table will post or not. The table is easier to see the any 1 or more correspondences between the 2 lists.

Popes / Bishops of Rome (all in chronological order)

(West/East/Holy) Roman Emperors (except a few) candidate matches (more or less in chronological order)

00 "John the Baptist" (Baphomet)

Gnaeus Pompeius?

0 "Jesus Christ" (JC, trinity, crucified, cross, baptized, bc/ad calendar, 30 yrs, condemned by 70/72 Sanhedrim, virgin-born, successor/rep Cephas)

Julius Caesar (JC, deified, triumvir, crucified pirates, cross Rubicon, , calendar, assassinated by 60+2 in senate, Gallia/Gaul, aimed at kingship, reform, Venus, successor Caesar Augustus, laurel wreath)?

1/0 "(St/Simon) Peter/Petrus/Cephas/Kep(h)a" (upside-down cross, 66 y.o., Hermes' house, Caesarea Philippi)

Nero(n) Caesar (antichrist 616/666)? &/or Caesar Augustus (1st, heir of Julius Caesar)? &/or Praetorian? &/or Paul (Paul's house)? [&/or Simon Magus?]

2/1/na "Linus" ("flax-coloured hair")

T Flavius Vespasian (Flavian "yellow-coloured hair")? &/or usurper(s Galba & Otho &) Vitellius? &/or Tiberius (2nd)?

3/4/na Anacletus &/or Cletus (Greece)

Titus Flavius Vespasian(us)? (&/or Titus Flavius Domitian?) &/or Claudius?

4/5/2 Clement/Clemens I ('1 Clement', east, knew Timothy)

Titus Flavius Domitian(us) (reincarnation of Nero, persecution policy/declaration, Timothy)? &/or Nero (5th)?

5 Ev-aristus (Bethlehem)

Nerva? (&/or Trajan (sound admin, improved social conditions, modest)?) [&/or good birth? &/or Eucharist?]

6 Alexander I

Trajan (fine soldier, extended empire, "thinking aloud of Alexander the Great" in Charax, Ignatius)?

7/6 Sixtus/Xystus I ("polished"/"sixth")

12 Caesars? or legio Sextae? (or Lucius Artorius Castus??)

8 Telesphorus ("accomplisher, bringer of completion", 12th year)

Hadrian's Wall?

9 Hyginus/Yginos (Athens)

Hadrian(us)/Adriatic (Ignatius)? (&/or Antoninus Pius?)

10 Pius I

Antoninus Pius?

11 Anicetus/Anicitus (Emesa)

Titus Aurelius Antoninus Pius (138/139)? or Lucius/Marcus Aurelius Verus? or M Aurelius Antoninus Commodius?

12 Soter((i)us)

M Aurelius Verus (Stoic/study)? or Sothis/Sirius (Antoninus Pius 138/139)?

13 Eleutherius/Eleuterus (Nicopoli, Christian king Lucius)

L(ucius) Aurelius Verus? (or Helvius Pertinax? or Commodius (pleasure, Hercules)?) [&/or Lucius Artorius Castus?]

14 Victor I (Africa)

civil wars 193-197? &/or military commanders (African emperors)? or Severus (commander of legions, military despotism, army)? or Marcus Aurelius (campaign against Germans)? or Commodius (Hercules)?

15 Zephyrinus

Septim(i)us Severus?

16 Callistus/Cal(l)ixtus I

Caracalla?

16-19 antipope Hippolytus

Heliogabalus/Elagabalus (Baal)?

17 Urban(us) I

Publius Septimus Geta? &/or M Opellius Macrinus? (or M Aurelius Severus Alexander??)

18 Pontian(us)

Pupienus? or Gordianus 1/2? [Gordian knot & Pontus?] (or Bassianus??)

19 Anterus

Alexander Severus? &/or C Julius Verus Maxim(in)us Thrax? (or M Antonius Gordianus?)

20 Fabian(us) (7)

(Pupienus? &/or) Balbinus?

21 antipope Novatian(us)

Volusianus (Hostilianus)? (or Latinius Postumus?)

21 Cornelius (hardship)

Gordianus 3/2/1?

22 Lucius I

Lucius Domitius Aurelianus? (or Lucius Aelianus? or P Licinius Valerianus or P Linicius Egnatius Gallienus? (or Volusianus??))

23 Stephanus/Stephen I

Ulpia Severina? (or Hostilianus??) or  Valerian (martyrs)?

24 Xystus/Sixtus II (Athens)

Tacitus/Tegid?

25 Dionysius

Probus (farming)?

26 Felix I

Florianus? (or Valerianus? (or Philippus??))

27 Eutychian(us) (Luni)

Numerianus? (or Tacitus?)

28 Caius/Gaius (martyred, Dalmatia)

Caius Aurelius Diocletian(us) (persecution)? (&/or Carus &/or Carinus?)

29 Marcellinus

Marcus Aurelius Maximianus? &/or Maximinus? (&/or Licinius?)

30 Marcellus I

Maximinus? &/or Marcus Aurelius Maxentius? &/or Galerius? (or Marcus Aurelius Maximianus?)

31 Eusebius (Sard)

Severus?

32 Miltiades/Melchiades

Maximinus Daia? &/or Maxentius?

33 Silvester/Sylvester I (Nicea, St Croce) [compare pope Sylvester 3]

Constantine I the Great (cross, Milvian)? [compare emp Constantine 9?]

34 Marcus/Mark

Maxentius? &/or Magnus Magnentius?

35 Julius/Iulius I Rusticus

Julian the Apostate? (&/or Julius Constans &/or Julius Constantius 2?)

36 Liberius ("sign heretical creed")

Jovian? or Julian the Apostate? or Licinius (pagan)? (or Valerius?)

36b antipope Felix II

Flavius Valens (east)?

37 Ursicinus/Ursinus

Vetranio? or Theodosius (brown bear)? &/or Aurelius Ursicinus (Hoxne hoard)? &/or general Ursicinus? or Arcadius?

37 Damasus I (Portugal)

Theodosius (christianity)? [St James/Iago?]

38 Siricius/Sicirius

Gratian(us)?

39 Anastasius I

Arcadius?

40 Innocent(ius)/Innocens I (Visigoths)

Valentinian 1/2?

41 Zosimus/Zosimas

Theodosius 1/2?

42 Eulalius

Eugenius? or Flavius Claudis Constantine 3? &/or Flavius Constantius 3? &/or Flavius Honorius? or Alaric/Arian?

42 Boniface/Bonifacius I

Honorius? (or Eugenius?)

43 Celestine/Caelestinus I

Constantine 3? (&/or Constantius 3? &/or Valentinian 3? or Honorius (Coloseum)?)

44 Sixtus/Xystus Tertius/III

Avitus?

45 Leo I Magnus (Huns 451)

(Petronius Maximus? &/or) Julius Majorianus (fine soldier, peace treaty Vandals 461)? &/or Livius Severus? &/or Leo 1 (Byzantine)?

46 Hilarius (Sard)

Oylbrius? &/or Glycerius? (&/or Honorius (Telemachus)??)

 


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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2015 at 03:24
Just a note on the "first bishop/pope" "Peter/Cephas" :

The "Babylon" (or "Rome") that Peter wrote from looks like it might be Joppa/Tel_Aviv (which was named after a site on Chebar in Babylon as in 'Ezekiel'), not Rome/"Babylon, nor Babylon, nor Cairo/"Babylon", nor other candidates i brainstormed.

For which of the 12 tribes that Sim(e)on-Peter may represent it looks like he can only be either Joseph (stone), or Simeon-Judah, or Zebulun-Naphtali, or Dan?

edit post:

Darn it. Sorry another stupid dumb moronic mistake. I forgot to look up Chebar on net/web for more info than my limited books here. It turns out that Tel Aviv in Israel is only modern Israeli place name. (Also they claim Chebar is by/near Nippur which is somewhat south-east of Bablyon.)
Another humiliation, this time by myself not by others. Its bad enough that Sharrukin was viciously nasty in the 'there was no Akkadian empire' thread/topic (which is darn closed so i can't even reply to defend myself). (And is bad enough i found I was wrong about Berosus 1st dynasty matching Uruk 1, and that i found myself that orthodox scholars were right that it matches Kish 1.)
However anythings i am wrong about don't mean i am wrong about everything. This "the first 46+ popes were really Roman emperors" discovery is certainly right (though a few could be not quite right match).

It looks like they are at least right that Peter was in Rome after all. Since the NT says he would be carried where not want, and "by what sort of death he would glorify God", and mentions "Bablyon" which name was used for Rome in some other places, and mentions Mark (Roman) (and Paul) [and Silvanus/Silas?]. I am just/only right that the first 46+ popes are still not genuine but usurpation as they still certainly match the Roman emperors.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 22-Oct-2015 at 05:24
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2015 at 08:54
The only other possibility for Peter's "Babylon" (other than the candidates i already given in recent last post) is Antioch
Interestingly some family/families at Antioch claim to be descended from Peter.
Babylas 237 at Antioch.


We may have got just a couple/few correspondences slightly wrong. We were not able to study all the meanings of the names and all the biographies (& sources) of popes & emperors. It looks like Evaristus/Aristus is maybe not Nerva but is Trajan (Nerva Trajanus, who was called "best ruler"). Though pope/bishop Alexander is Trajan who was fine soldier and extended the empire and was "thinking aloud of Alexander at Charax". A few "popes/bishops" may match same emperor, or match more than one emperor?



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 23-Oct-2015 at 08:56
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2015 at 23:35

The new admin are persecuting me on the other "christianityboard" forum. I told them that if they don't stop persecuting me then i am going to go fully public with all my evidences on this. They have instead secretly persecuted me all the more, so i am going full-on with this here and elsewhere. For once in my "life" i have power and i am using it before they destroy me. (Any one that says its just paranoia I can give more evidence privately since i can not post disputes from other forum here.)

If that table is not enough here is just a little bit more on a sample of a few:

"bishop/pope # 15 Zephyrinus 199-217" = contemp emperor # 24 Severus 193/198-211;
"pope/bishop # 16 Callistus/Cal(l)ixtus 217-222" = contemp emperor # 25 Caracalla 198/211-217.
"# 16-19 Antipope Hippolytus 217-236" = contemp emperor # 28 Heliogabalus 218-222.

Names too much very similar.
(Antipope matches El/Baal.)
Dates more or less match.
All in order.
There will be more details matches between the popes & emperors biographies but it will take alot of time to go through all the pope and emps biographies.
(Please do not let any differences make you not see the similarities. Of course there will be some differences because they made a big lie that couldn't be far too obvious.)
More to come as i am able to.

Cephas (Peter) is depicted/described as bushy hair/beard; Caesar means hairy (though there are also some other hypothesied meanings like "cut") [compare Kesava in Indian].

The evidence suggests to me that "Clement" is really Domitian or his cousin. And that Peter died in Rome during or before Domitian's/"Clement's" reign (not during Nero's, though the upsidedown cross and the age 66 y.o. seems to relate to "antichrist" Nero 666).
Persecution in Peter's letter has been suggested by orthodox scholars to maybe be Domitian's. Peter associated with Clementine chapel. The Peter primacy is linked with Clementine literature. We showed Clement matches Domitian (or he may match his cousin as others suggest). Clemency is inversion of persecution. Modern project Clementine 2 recalls that our 1 Clement matches Domitian (the 1st persecution excluding/after Nero's). (Domitian was considered a reincarnation of Nero.) Domitian and his cousin Clement had same first two names. Some popes lists have Clement first pope after Peter. I would be interested in a cryptologist analysing 1 Clement.

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2015 at 14:55
I am sorry, i see claims that the pope has had a stroke, and i suppose it is all my fault (unless its a fake).
I can only pitifully say in my defense that i have had a very bad "life" from conception to the present (just one example i am 42 and always been single/alone, i have had ENT troubles again the last week/s, etc), though i can't deny that i have some bad/wrong/sick / blame.  I had no idea that something like that would happen (i would not want to cuase anyone anything like that as i wouldn't want it to happen to me (as i have actually had heart pains alot of this year til recently)), i thought they were controling & conspiring.
I have/had the last 12 hours redone my table of popes-emperors matches on my freewebs site, but i am too scared to post the link now as i am in enough trouble with God/self/humans/system/devil.

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2015 at 00:31
Too many entities to have trouble with!What about you!Do you have trouble with You.Solve it closest issue first.Friendly advise.Regards Arthur-Robin.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2015 at 23:55

The new administrator of christianityboard (where i first made and posted this popes discovery weeks ago) is persecuting me. I assume i am not allowed to post the details in a new thread anywhere on this forum so i will just post the link to my blog post about this https://2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/christianityboard-new-admin-bad/ .
http://https://2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/christianityboard-new-admin-bad/

I am still too scared to pursue publicising the popes/emperors discovery though because of the pope's Stroke (heart attack) and fear of God, and because they could make my life (even more) hell if they do control everything (isps, electricity, work, mental health act, etc), but i am newly annoyed/incensed enough to at least post the links to my recent newest updated table of popes/emperors correspondences ( http://www.freewebs.com/lifetradition/theempire.htm ). (But sorry it is harder to see the "Bold" text bits in the table. I could post it here if people wish, i just hate posting more than one versions of same long things (i have already posted two editions of the popes/emperors table/list here).)



Edited by medenaywe - 04-Nov-2015 at 03:08
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2015 at 09:12

There is no doubt that the first 46+ "popes/bishops" names etc match the Roman Emperors names etc (from at least "Peter/Cephas" ~ Nero/Caesar, to "Leo 1" ~ Leo &/or Majorian?)  (Eg Zephyrinus seems to really be Severus, Callistus seems to really be Caligula, Hippolytus seems to really be Heliogabalus.)

"Peter/Cephas" certainly at least seems to match Nero, and Caesar name/meaning.

>> Peter/Cephas | Caesar:
name Cephas/Kepha | name Caesar (very similar)
bushy beard/hair | means "thick head of hair, hairy"

>> Peter/Cephas | Nero Caesar:
bushy beard/hair | beard & hair prominent in pictures
upsidedown cross | 666/616/antichrist
died age 66 y.o. | 666 in numerals
died 67 ad | died 68 ad
name Cepha(s) | name Caesar.
successor Linus | successor Vespasian (match)
Domitian persecution | Domitian reincarnated Nero
[pontiffex maximus] | pontiffex maximus
[papa/pope] | wife Poppaea?
wife Perpetua | wife Poppaea??
14th year Nero | reigned 14 years 54-68?
after Jesus | after Augustus/Julius (who match)
choir director | "fiddled while Rome burned"??


The fact that the first 46 "popes/bishops" really match the emperors, together with other evidences suggests that the papal "Jesus" is pretty certainly (not the Jesus of the bible but is) one of the Roman persons before Nero. The most likely matches are either Julius Caesar (eg both JC, both star, etc) or Caesar Augustus (eg both son of god) or Claudius (headdress)?
And that the papal "God" is either Sol or Jupiter or Julius Caesar.
Also the papal "John the Baptist" may possibly be one of the Roman persons before Nero. Seeming possible candidate matches include:
Gnaeus Pompeius, or Sextus Pompeius "Son of Neptune", or Marcus/Decimus Junius Brutus, or Dioneus Caesar?

(The evidence is "wolf in sheeps clothing". Fake not real "popes/bishops". Fake not real "Peter/Cephas. Fake not real "Jesus".)

Our intention is/was not to offend anyone. Our sole intention was to show people that we found that the first 46+ "popes/bishops" names & dates & details match the contemporary/corresponding Roman Emperors, and therefore that the "popes" are not real/genuine heirs of Peter primacy & keys claim. That was how we discovered it in first place, looking objectively to see if their claim was true and unexpectedly/accidentally discovering that the "popes/bishops" names and dates match the contemporary emperors (amazingly/certainly, since it is more than one match, more than a few matches, all in order).

Sorry but i do not have the time and health and situation to do any more hard work on this thesis (esp since i have other studies and other things that i need and want to do), and i can not go through all the 46+ "popes/bishops" very long biographies and the 46+ emperors long biographies collating even more proofs/evidences/matches. Some discoveries theses of mine i did so much hard work that i almost had a heart attack (blood pressure, heart pains), so i am not lazy or seeking quick/easy as some people on some forums imply.

If we have here failed to communicate readibly/understandibly or to provide details/evidences, then perhaps these few other net forum threads/topics posts different write-ups will be better:
http://www.freewebs.com/lifetradition/theempire.htm
http://www.allempires.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35815
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21946-popes-office-in-the-bible/page-3
http://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1930
http://www.worldhistoria.com/topic129257_post98218.html .



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 24-Nov-2015 at 09:19
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2015 at 13:25

Still no one will conceed that it is possibly right not wrong, or at least that it has interesting enough matches that worth considering as seemingly possible, so here is just a quick but quite-some effort brief collation of some further details similarities between "pope" Zephyrinus biography and emperor Severus biography.

* Zephyrinus:
name Zephyrinus / Zepheniah.
name related to Greek west(ern) wind god.
* Severus:
name Septimius Severus. [gens Septimia. built the Septizodium? "Severan Wall".] [Annexed Zabi?]
"After consolidating his rule over the western provinces...." Visited Britain (in West). Was fluent in Greek. "With his rearguard safe, he moved to the East...."?

* Zephyrinus:
"198/199-217". Reigned "17 yrs"/18 yrs".
* (Septimius) Severus:
193-198-209-211. (Caracalla ruled til 217.) Reigned "17 yrs".

* Zephyrinus:
"The pope is described ... as a simple man without education. This is evidently to be understood as meaning that Zephyrinus had not taken the higher studies...."
* Septimius Severus:
"Little else is known of the young Severus' education, but according to Cassius Dio the boy had been eager for more education than he had actually got."

* Zephyrinus:
"They formed an independent heretical community at Rome which was ruled by another Theodotus, the Money Changer, and Asclepodotus."
* Severus:
[Annexed Thabudeos? "Thyatira" in 'Revelation' = Constantinople (Byzantium which Severus campaigned against)? Argentocoxos?]
"Arcus Argentariorum dedicated by the money changers of Rome to the Severan family."
"Pertinax's successor in Rome was Didius Julianus, who had bought the emperorship in an auction."


* Zephyrinus:
"A refutation of Proclus in the form of a dialogue was written by a learned and rigidly orthodox Roman Christian named Caius...."
* Severus:
"Severus's maternal cousin was Praetorian prefect and consul Gaius Fulvius Plautianus. .... In 173, Severus' kinsman Gaius Septimius Severus was appointed proconsul of the Africa Province. The elder Severus chose his cousin as one of his two legati pro praetore." "... after 197 Severus fell heavily under the influence of his Praetorian Prefect, Gaius Fulvius Plautianus...." Succeeded as consul by Gaius Cassius?

* Zephyrinus:
"Although not physically martyred, he is called a martyr for the suffering he endured." / "Although he was not physically martyred for the faith, his suffering – both mental and spiritual – during his pontificate have earned him the title of martyr."
* Severus:
"...for he actually was conveyed in a covered litter most of the way, on account of his infirmity.... .... Severus' campaign was cut short when he fell fatally ill." heavy Roman casualties in Caledonia?
[And/or by inversion: executed Pertinax's murderers. exterminating Caledonians. executions of large number of Senators. Eusebius' description of Severus as persecutor of Christians. Persecutions occured during his reign including martyrs. "...the edict of persecution appeared which forbade conversion to Christianity under the severest penalties."] [&/or Antonine plague??]

* Zephyrinus:
Callistus coemeritium & successor.
* Severus:
Caracalla co-emperor & successor.

* Zephyrinus:
Hippolytus was his contemporary and "antipope" after him.
* Severus:
"... and served as a high priest to the local cult of the sun god Elagabal. Domna's older sister was Julia Maesa, later grandmother to the future emperors Elagabalus...."
["...he ordered the covering of the tomb of his fellow Carthaginian Hannibal with fine marble."?]
Heliogabalus/Elagabalus was Baal/El-worshipping emperor not long after him.

* Zephyrinus:
"Combated against the adoptionist heresies of the followers of Theodotus the Byzantium...."
* Severus:
"While campaigning against Byzantium he...."


* Zephyrinus:
"pope/papa / bishop / [pontiffex]".
+ Wearing a Crown in a picture.
"this holy pastor was the support and comfort of the distressed flock"
* Severus:
"... Severus was well disposed towards Christians, employed a Christian as his personal physician and had personally intervened to save several high-born Christians known to him...." [Aemilius Papinianus?]  Deified by the senate. [Pontiffex Maximus.]
+ Was emperor.

* Zephyrinus:
Natalis "... was persuaded by Asclepiodotus to become a bishop in their sect in exchange for a monthly stipend of 150 denarii."
* Severus:
"Additionally the annual wage for a soldier was raised from 300 to 500 denarii."
"Upon his accession he decreased the silver purity of the denarius from 81.5% to 78.5%. .... Nevertheless, the following year he debased the denarius substantially because of rising military expenditures. The silver purity decreased from 78.5% to 64.5% — the silver weight dropping from 2.46 grams to 1.98 grams. In 196 he reduced the purity and silver weight of the denarius again, to 54% and 1.82 grams respectively."

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2015 at 14:06

'Papa Smurf' / 'Le Grand Pere' (grandfather), "the leader of all smurfs", "bushy white beard" [like St Peter!] "father" / "paternal nature" / "central father-like figure" / "fatherly nature", aged 542/553, with Phrygian cap? "angry with smurfs for being disobedient" [like papal Kepha spoke against protestant "rebelion"?] vs "chaos" [like Kepha said would be chaos without a pope]. "Smurfs are all one family with one father".

(& Grandpa Smurf: 500yr absence, yellow clothing, long beard?) [There is a 'Granpa' here: http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/At-a-glance/The_Bible/101 !]
[There are 3 or 4 popes: White, Red, Black, Coptic?] / [Peter & Paul?]

"Romeo & Smurfette"??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Smurf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_The_Smurfs



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 26-Nov-2015 at 14:17
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  Quote aliusama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2015 at 00:18
SmileHeart

nice topic i like it
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