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Where can I get resources about Khorasani

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  Quote perdon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Where can I get resources about Khorasani
    Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 21:39
Originally posted by gok_toruk

 

 

     it's not our face that make us proud; it's our background. 

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  Quote perdon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 21:43

very well said !!! you are coooLL!gok Toruk !

one more thing ,what does Turkmen mean? does it mean " men ,toruk "(I am turk),I am curiousabout this !!

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2005 at 12:17

Linguistically the name Turkmen as a whole word has no implication in the Modern Turkish Dictionary other than a Turkish clan. As a compound name, it can be divided into two words; Turk and men. The word Turk is used as synonym to the word Turkic of the international literary. The word Men means I. Figuratively it refers to the braveness. Accordingly the word Turkmen can be explained as: I am a Turkish man or We are Turkish brave men. Y. J. Diny and K. Kahin supported these explanations, respectively.25, 26 Other scholars have proposed that the element man / men acts as an intensifier and have translated the word as pure Turk or most Turk-like of the Turks.27

There are certain theories over the development of the term Turkmen:

The Ghaznavids were of servile origin, but their steppe beginnings were speedily overlaid by the Iranian culture and administrative technique which they adopted.28 The Qarakhanids were also influenced at the same way; their elites were quickly assimilated to the traditions of the Iranian-Islamic states.29 The Oghus lived at the southeast coast of Caspian Sea did not influenced by the Persian culture. Therefore, they remained less mingled and pure Turkish blood. So, they called themselves or were called by other groups as a Turkmen.

According to Kashgari, who lived in the 11th century, the word Turkmen means Turkish similar people, which was used by Zulkarneyn (Iskander the great) when he named the powerful Turkic army under the leadership of Shu whom he met after the congruence of Samarqand as Turkmen.30

Other sources considered the name Turkmanend as a precursor of the name Turkmen. Turkmanend is a compound name formed from the word Turk and the Persian word Manend, which means they are Turks.31, 32

Ibn al-Kathir and Muhammed Neshri reported that the word Turkmen can be developed from the word Turk and Iman. Iman is Arabic word which means faith and used in the same meaning by the Turks.33 It is reported by Neshri that at the Abbasids period 912 - 913 when the leader Canakhan with his 2 thousands people embraced Islam, they were called Turki iman which is later changed to Turkmen.34, 35

Another word which is supposed to be the predecessor of the name Turkmen is the Arabic word Turcuman. This is an Arabic word, means Translator and used by in Turks in the same meaning. In begin it is supposed to be used for those of the Oghus tribes who embraced Islam and acted as a translator for the non-Islam Oghus or other Turkish clans then generalized to include all Oghus people.36, 37

Dequigne believes that the name Turkmen was developed from the name Koman, which was one of the non Oghus Turkish tribes.38

It is doubtful if the name Tukumenk in the Chinese Tung Tin Encyclopedia of 8th century carried the same implication of Turkmen. Almost all the sources date appearance of the name Turkmen to the 10th century. The first nomad communities of Oghus tribes, who embraced Islam in Ordu region at south of the Middle Asia on the frontier of expanding Islam world, were Turkmen or named Turkmen is still the matter of discussion. In the 11th century the name Turkmen was politicized and expanded to cover karluk and Halac communities. The term was later restricted to only the Oghus clans until the 13th century.39

According to the Turkish historian Y. Oztuna, the name Turkmen appeared with conversion of nomad Oghus tribes to Islam. At the end of first half of the 11th century and when all the Oghus people were embraced Islam, the term was used an alternative to Oghus. In the following century, Turkmen seems to have been used for the Oghus people who remained nomad and townsmen were mentioned Oghus. It was during the Mongol period that the name Oghus was finally discontinued. Thereafter, the name Turk had totally replaced Oghus.40

Kafesoglu did not agree with the statement that the name Turkmen is appeared with the Turkish embracement of Islam. This can also be assumed from the descriptions of Turkmen by Kashgarli:39

    Karluk are a division of Turkmen
    they are a clan from the nomad Turks
    They differed from the Oghus
    They are Turkmen as Oghus.

It can be concluded that the name Turkmen was first used mainly for the nomads of Oghus, who were the first Oghus people embraced Islam.

Sumer and Boyle claim that the near eastern Muslims gave the name Turkmen to the Oghus.41 The term Turkmen appears for the first time in the islamic sources in the 10th century; about 980 AC, the geographer Maqdisi speaking of two strongholds in the province of Isfijab, calls them frontier posts against the Turkmen. In the 11th century, it was applied to southwestern Turks; the Oghus and Kipchak, whereas the term Turk is used for the more easterly Turks of the Karluk group. Ghaznavid sources frequently call the incoming Oghus Turkmen. In his Mirror for Princes Nizam al-Mulk considers the nomad Seljuks with in Iran and the lands to the West as Turkmen.42

In the 11th century, Oghus Turkmen tribes dominated by the Seljuk clan entered the Caucasus region, Mesopotamia and Asia Minor. They defeated Byzantine army, drifted through Iran and into Anatolia. The chieftain Ottoman of Kayi tribe established in the 13th century the sprawling Ottoman Empire that lasted into the 20th century. The other two Turkmen states were the Qara Qoyunlu (Black Sheep) from 1378 until 1469 and the Aq Qoyunlu (White Sheep) from 1387 until 1502.

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica the name Turkmen is a synonym of Oghus which includes all the Turkish (Turkic) population who live to the southwest of Central Asia:43

    1. Turkey
    2. Azerbaijan Republic
    3. Azerbaijan of Iran
    4. Turkmenistan
    5. in other countries:
      a. Afghanistan
      b. Iraq, Syria and other Arab countries
      c. Greece, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Gagavuz, and other European countries.

The worth noting is that with the exception of the Turkmenistan and Afghanistan all the Turkmen communities can easily understand each other.

The Turkish historian Y. Oztuna presents almost the same definition to the name Turkmen. He calls Turkmen Oghus or western Turkish populations:44

    1. Ottomans
    2. Azerbaijan
    3. Turkmen (Turkmenistan)

However, the name Turkmen is used in different meaning by the Turkish populations or their neighbors. At the time being, the name Turkmen is mainly used for the following Turkish peoples:

1. Turkmen of Republic of Turkmenistan.

Turkmenistan is located in Central Asia between Iran and Kazakhstan. The Caspian Sea border Turkmenistan from the west. Its total area is 488,100 km2. The population is estimated 4,254,000 in 1993.

There are stocks of Turkmen in the neighboring countries to Turkmenistan for example, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan and Tajikistan.

Due to the political conflicts, the Oghus people moved from the northeast a long the Tula River to the region of present Turkmenistan in the 8th and 9th century. They established trading religious and cultural contacts with the Perso - Arabic and Islamic empire at the south. Towards the end of the 10th century, they converted to Islam, and were for the first time referred to as Turkmen. They massively moved toward the south and west. The tribes that remained in Central Asia established themselves in the Transoxiana region in the 11th and 12th century, retained their tribal customs, and came to form the basis of the Turkmen nation.

After dominating Tajikistan and the Uzbek Khanates in 1876, the Russians began their occupation of the Turkmenistan in 1877. After one of the bloodiest campaigns of Russian colonial history, by 1884 they had subdued the Turkmen. In 1899, Turkmenistan became part of the Russian Governor - Generalship of Turkistan, which had been established in Transoxiana in 1867.

In 1916, the Turkmen also took part in general revolt, of Central Asia. As the Russian Revolution and the subsequent Civil War started in 1917, the Turkmen were still suffering from the consequences of the 1916 Revolt.

In the meantime, a Turkmen national movement was developing, and a Provisional Turkmen Congress was set up in Ashkabad. Efforts were made to build a national armed force, but it was immediately suppressed by the Bolsheviks. In 1918, the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Trans-caspia established. This government was hard-pressed, and eventually began impressing Turkmen into its army. This caused widespread desertions to the Bolsheviks. In the summer of 1919, Ashkhabad fell to the Bolsheviks. Some of the Turkmen forces continued to fight the Bolsheviks in the desert, in the Turkmen's version of the Basmachi Revolt.

In 1921 a Turkmen region which was established as part of Soviet Turkistan (Central Asia), but already in 1924, the Soviets started to split up this unit to create national homelands. The first ones to be established were the Uzbek and the Turkmen Soviet Socialist Republics. Turkmen nationalist movements were still operating, with goals of establishing an independent Turkmenistan. Several bloody Turkmen revolts were took place around 1930. The discovery of subversive Turkmen organization, for example, Turkmen Azatlygi (Liberty) Party by the Soviets, brought about large-scale purges and persecution of Turkmen political and cultural leaders. From 1934 to 39 almost a whole generation of intellectuals was liquidated. Purges took place again in 1946 - 1948 and in 1959 over the nationalist Turkmen.

2. Turkmen of Turkey

many groups of people were called Turkmen in Turkey. Their number is higher than in Turkmenistan. They are living in many governorates at the middle and east of the Turkey, for example, Gazianteb, Afyon and Kieshehir. They were nomadic Turkish tribes who firmly attacked to the traditions.

3. The Turkmen of Iran,

They live along the northern border of Iran across Turkmenistan.45 They numbered about 2 millions. Their main cities are Gunbde Kaus, Bender Turkmen and Kalala.

4. The Turkmen of Iraq.

They live mainly at the north and middle of the Iraq. Their number severly underestimated according to them it approximates 2.5 millions. The Turkmen of Iraq are the generations of different Turkish clans, who entered Iraq since thousands of years, for example, Oghus, Kipchak, Azerbaijanian and Mongols. The term Turkmen for the Iraqi Turks seems to have been created during the discussion of Mosul issue in the third decade of the last century, to isolate the Iraqi Turks from the Turkey. This used as a factor again Turkey during negotiations, to join this oil rich Ottoman province to the newly founded Iraq by Brittan.

5. The Turkmen of Syria.

Long before the Islamic era, the Huns overrun Syria and Iraq (391 - 400 AD). The Turks were founded in large numbers in the Sasanian Iraq and Syria. The Turkmen of Syria appears in the history as an important factor in the Crusade wars during the reign of Seljuk Empire. They founded the Syrian Seljuk (1092 1117) and the Atabakian state in Aleppo (1104). Thereafter a large number of Turkmen entered Syria during the Turko-Mongol conquest and Ottoman Turkmen after Malazgirt battle in 1071. In the 3rd decade of the 14th century a short-lived Turkmen principality was founded in the Albistan region by Dulkaderogullari. During the Seljuk reign Turkmen from Yiva, Bayat, Avshar, Begdilli, Doger and Uchkochaklar were established in Syria.

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  Quote perdon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2005 at 21:58
Dostim ,Kotta Rahmet !!!!!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2005 at 06:58

Originally posted by perdon

Dostim ,Kotta Rahmet !!!!!

Sa olasin kardasim...



Edited by Oguzoglu
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 09:37

Dear Perdon and Oghuz Oghlu (kizigh Qarin tash larim),

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, sorry for this a little bit too late reply. You know, I had lots of businesses to attend  related to my course in university. Anyhow, thanks for your concern. Well, all those comments out there are notified in different books; but all of them are not acceptable; cause you see for example some people think that Turkmen is derived as Turk + Iman; now you know All that Iman is an Arabic word.

    As for me as a Turkmen and as a person whose mother tongue is Turkmen, I would say that 'men' is just an intensifier. So, it just focuses on the Turkish element in their culuture.

    By the way,  you know there are differenet Oghuz groups in the world. They were devided in the time of Seljuklis. A part went to Anatolia to make Osmanli Devleti. And a part stayed in Northern Turkmenistan and Kazakstan. Then, they migrated to Turkmenistan and NorthEastern Iran to be called Turkmens. 
   Now that we've got two groups of Turkish people in different sides of Sea, I would mention something:

   You know, we're all of the Turk Great Rag, no matter to which tribe we belong, how we look like, or any accent we've taken. But the fact is that, on the west side of the Sea, you'll find almost all of the people az Oghuz. They are Turkiye lisand Azerbaijan lis. But, on the right side, people from different tribes have come to be a mixture of all Turkish tribes. I'm talking about the nations. Now, you'll find some tribes that last a long time ago. But, people living in Turkmenistan are not all Oghuzes. Also, in Uzbekistan. Uzbeks were Turks and Mongols who took the name of Uzbek Kan. I even know about Kiptchaks that changed their name to Uzbek after changing their ways of life. Or, Kazaks,  they were different Turkish and Mongolian Tribes with a leader who lead them to gain lots of places. Kazak means something like 'free', independent. I'm an Oghuz, but, my ancestors used to live in Kazakstan. Even my mother is a Kiptchak, although I call myself an Oghuz (just simply because my father is an Oghuz).

   Not to give you a headache again, but no matter to which tribe we belong, we are Turks. That's what gives us honor. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 09:40

Dear Oghuz Oghlu,

   Hi there. Well, I supposed you were Turkiye li. But as it turns out in your profile, it's written you're from Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan bolsang, Qa yer ten kelken?  

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 09:53

Qiziq Perdon,

   Yakhsi mi sen? Sening bir messeging, ikinji page te mish tigh; men oni korkemey tim. Indi korip te, sen ke qarshichiliq yazkey men. 

   Uzbek ler te bizim ing yaqin gharin tash larimiz tir lar. Indi, yalghiz Uzbek ya ta Turkmen demekey li.  Kazak lar birle Kyrghiz lar ta bizim Gharnitash larimiz tir lar. Biz, ne yerte erken seyik, bir birimiz ke yartim etmeli yik. Qiziq Perdon, kop qwantim, kop begentim. Sagh bol. Sagh ligh ta bol .

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 11:43
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Qiziq Perdon,

   Yakhsi mi sen? Sening bir messeging, ikinji page te mish tigh; men oni korkemey tim. Indi korip te, sen ke qarshichiliq yazkey men. 

   Uzbek ler te bizim ing yaqin gharin tash larimiz tir lar. Indi, yalghiz Uzbek ya ta Turkmen demekey li.  Kazak lar birle Kyrghiz lar ta bizim Gharnitash larimiz tir lar. Biz, ne yerte erken seyik, bir birimiz ke yartim etmeli yik. Qiziq Perdon, kop qwantim, kop begentim. Sagh bol. Sagh ligh ta bol .

I am glad that I have easily understood your sentences. Turkmen is the easiest Turkic dialect for us after Azer.

And no, gizigh garindashim, I am not from Uzbekistan, but I wanted to change my flag with another Turkic flag. Does the flag really matter?

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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 13:38
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Dear Oghuz Oghlu,

   Hi there. Well, I supposed you were Turkiye li. But as it turns out in your profile, it's written you're from Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan bolsang, Qa yer ten kelken?  

We are not saying Trkiyeli. It is only Trk.

Saygi ve Sevgiler Goktoruk

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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 09:21

Dear Oghuz Oghlu,

   Hi there. Best wishesh and respect. Well, yeah, Turkmen is really close to Istanbuli Turkchesi. I'm, too, really glad you can easily communicate with your other turk brothers. You know, the structure is the same in all Turkish accents. It's just the dialect which differes from a nation to another. Now, as the last line (the Turkmen equvalent of 'kendini iyi  bak'), kentingi igi baq!!!

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 09:25

Dear Alp Arslan, the brother,

   Hi there. How's it going? Fine, I'd hope. Yeah, sorry for the misconception. I'd better use Turk brothers, instead of Turkiye li brothers. Thanks also for your 'saygi lar ve sevgiler', the same here. Take good care and just take it easy .

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Cengiz Kagan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 20:42
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Originally posted by gok_toruk

Qiziq Perdon,

   Yakhsi mi sen? Sening bir messeging, ikinji page te mish tigh; men oni korkemey tim. Indi korip te, sen ke qarshichiliq yazkey men. 

   Uzbek ler te bizim ing yaqin gharin tash larimiz tir lar. Indi, yalghiz Uzbek ya ta Turkmen demekey li.  Kazak lar birle Kyrghiz lar ta bizim Gharnitash larimiz tir lar. Biz, ne yerte erken seyik, bir birimiz ke yartim etmeli yik. Qiziq Perdon, kop qwantim, kop begentim. Sagh bol. Sagh ligh ta bol .

I am glad that I have easily understood your sentences. Turkmen is the easiest Turkic dialect for us after Azer.

And no, gizigh garindashim, I am not from Uzbekistan, but I wanted to change my flag with another Turkic flag. Does the flag really matter?




Your right

I'm from Turkey and I have a Turkmenian flag. It really doesn't matter as long it's a Turkic flag.


TANRI TURKU KORUSUN
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  Quote Aygucu Tonyukuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 20:56

For Turks, there is no difference between Ankara, Askabat, Alma-At, Kasghar and so on. We are all brothers and from same origin.

I saw a mistake above. The nearest Turkic dialect to Istanbul Turkish is Gagauz Turkish. But with some afford, you can understand and speak easily in Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan even Kazakh and Kyrgz Turkish.

I'm also Turkmen. I'm a Bayat from my father, Avshar from my mother.

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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 03:32

Dear Aygucu Tonyukuk,

   Hi there. Best wishesh and respect. Well, thank you very much or your concern. It doesn't need me to confirm your words; simply because it's correct. Take good care and take it easy.

 

Yashayin,

Iltirish

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  Quote Aygucu Tonyukuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 10:35

ltirish Bek,

I want to thank you for your good words.
Rahmat.

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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 05:45
Dear Aygucu Tonyukuk,
   Hi there. Well, sorry for this a little bit too late reply. Not good words; but correct!!!
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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