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Who did discover America?

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who did discover America?
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Ollios View Drop Down
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who did discover America?
    Posted: 22-Nov-2014 at 05:34
Question is very simple, who did discover America? Who has this honour?

Don't decide quickly. Erdogan reminded this topic to me.

"This weekend, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan courted controversy (and jeers) by declaring on television that there was evidence that Muslims had reached the Americas before Christopher Columbus. Speaking at a summit of Muslim leaders from Latin America, Erdogan said that Muslim sailors reached the New World about 300 years before Columbus and that the Italian explorer had even spied the ruins of a mosque on the Cuban coast."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/20/why-turkeys-erdogan-still-insists-muslims-reached-america-before-columbus/ 


and please tell me, What are/did you teach in school?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact

My answer is clear





Edited by Ollios - 22-Nov-2014 at 05:36
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2014 at 10:32
Insufficient definition of 'America'. As Cuba was not considered then as a part of North America.

Contextually from a Euro view it was simply known as the 'New World'. And that would eventually encompass both the Caribbean-North-Central-South America of today.

Subsequently named for Americus Vespucci; ref. his expeditions (ironically enough along the South America coastline of today not the North) and cartographical efforts from 1499-1502. Though there is conflicting evidence deemed suspect, by some scholars, that relate these voyages as late as 1504.

The name itself is courtesy of Martin Waldseemüller's map of 1507.



*I taught (among many other things) Military Science and Military History (to include military survey applications for Field Artillery, Aerial Obervation and Tank Gunnery). And the general use of physical-military geography for Combined Arms operations.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 22-Nov-2014 at 10:41
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2014 at 10:50
before Muslims there were Egyptians,before them...native Americans had passed trought frozen passage of Bering sea.We forgot Chinese people&people of Japan.Civilisation spred forward all the
time Olios.Cause dominant predator have needed "lebens raum"!Homo Sapiens!
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2014 at 14:16
There is evidence that shows the coasts of the Americas were very busy places, even as far back as 5-6000 years.
 
Forget Pinguin's [or this time, PUDU] racist bs.  Notice he was very careful to distinguish "sub saharan" Africa.  There is evidence of ocean worthy ships back to the Minoans and farther.  Africans had ships capable of reaching the Americas.  And they knew the Americas were here.  The idea that half the world was unknown is patently ludicrous.
 
There is a reasonable amount of evidence to support the idea that muslims made it to the Americas.  Place names that have been attributed to the Seminoles are suspicious.  For example, the capital of Florida is Tallahassee.  A Seminole name going back approx. 1,000 years.  Traditional Seminole dress is supposed to be typical of Turk dress of the 9th and 10th cents.  They are the only Native Americans who wore stylized turbans and some still do.
 
My own family shows a genetic connection to several cultures from N Africa, Turk among them. This has been traced back to roughly 900 AD.
 
As there is strong archeaologic evidence that there was a substantial Roman/Hebrew presence here, I don't find the idea that muslims made it here unusual.
 
So the question, who really discovered America, should be, Who didn't?  Columbus was probably last.
 
 
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2014 at 16:11
According to the latest research, the Euro-Mongols settled North America first.  That constitutes "discovery" at the time.  Afterwards, many different people "arrived" at the New World and North America, but they could not "discover" what was already settled by others.

Lief Erickson has an excellent claim to early visits to the North American coast,  but Columbus never discovered America at all - he found the Windward Islands.  Incredibly, he was so poorly informed of his own goals that he had no idea what the real Eastern Indians even looked like, and therefore assumed he had gotten to India.

We know for a fact that the Muslims never reached the New World because all of the forced religious conversions by foreign invaders were to Catholicism, not Islam, and the South Americans still speak a variety of Spanish, not Arabic.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2014 at 10:02
Thanks for all replies,

but I guess this is the worst poll in all website. LOL

There is no single answer, just comments Wink

Originally posted by red clay

So the question, who really discovered America, should be, Who didn't?  Columbus was probably last.
 

I agree with you about Columbus

Originally posted by Mountain Man


We know for a fact that the Muslims never reached the New World because all of the forced religious conversions by foreign invaders were to Catholicism, not Islam, and the South Americans still speak a variety of Spanish, not Arabic.


I am not asking who was colonized? so religion and language are out of topic


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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2014 at 16:42
Then you did not understand of the reply or the history involved.  Had Islam been first to reach the New World, they would have looted and pillaged the riches  just as the Spanish actually did, and they would have forced their religion on the indigenous natives in the process just as the Spanish did; therefore, the Muslims did not reach the New World.

If you are expecting simple, one word answers to complex historical questions you're in the wrong line of inquiry.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2014 at 18:18
Originally posted by Mountain Man

Then you did not understand of the reply or the history involved.  Had Islam been first to reach the New World, they would have looted and pillaged the riches  just as the Spanish actually did, and they would have forced their religion on the indigenous natives in the process just as the Spanish did; therefore, the Muslims did not reach the New World.If you are expecting simple, one word answers to complex historical questions you're in the wrong line of inquiry.


Apt. As the record shows that's exactly what they did everywhere they enacted expansions....and more importantly. From an ideological-theological perspective; far more, than any other, in the initial stages of the aforementioned expansions.

The Spanish also but with a far more economic base intended. Ditto the Portuguese and the English-Dutch-French etc.

Given appropriate weather and season...the Islamist had the technical abilty but I see no evidence of significant credibility that they did.

More correct is the statement by Red that many were before Columbus.

And the statement, iirc, u made. That 'what has been discovered can not be discovered again'. In the general broad sense, this is correct...but, imo, in the sense that it is to be treated as a 'single' historic event.

That however does not preclude that evidences of others still does not exist. Or at least did.It merely states their not available for analysis. And given era and context it might also be that something occurred in which the evidence was lost or destroyed. And thus there was a necessity for 're-discovery' to a later generation.

And therein lies the conundrum.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2014 at 02:07
Originally posted by Mountain Man


Then you did not understand of the reply or the history involved.  Had Islam been first to reach the New World, they would have looted and pillaged the riches  just as the Spanish actually did, and they would have forced their religion on the indigenous natives in the process just as the Spanish did; therefore, the Muslims did not reach the New World.


This is not about history involution, it is about your narrow perspective.

Vikings had colony in the North America (Vinland), but they couldn't do what Spanish did.

This is like USA went to Moon but maybe Chinese establish first colony on the moon.

Originally posted by Mountain Man


If you are expecting simple, one word answers to complex historical questions you're in the wrong line of inquiry.


What did you learn in public school?
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2014 at 18:14
When I was young...yes it's true....we learned that Columbus was the discoverer. Although even in the late 50's-early 60's the push was on for the Norse and there were voices for the natives.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2014 at 01:41
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

When I was young...yes it's true....we learned that Columbus was the discoverer. Although even in the late 50's-early 60's the push was on for the Norse and there were voices for the natives.


thanks this is useful for me Big smile
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2014 at 13:03
I started school in 1951, and up until High School we were taught the straight Columbus BS.  But you should also know that we were still being subjected to the "George Washington and the Cherry Tree" nonsense".  History books were still subject to review by the DAR. [Daughters of the American Revolution]  Their version of History was a romanticized and very white fantasy. 
 
MM, I have seen and heard some weak and biased arguments concerning cross Atlantic contact, but yours takes the cake. Thank you, I needed a little comedic relief.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2016 at 04:13
When I was young I read this statement from an article, which was printed in the reader digest, the article was about exactly who really discovered America, this statement was made by a professor

He said that before columbus, people came to America, but it was Columbus who carried out the press conference to announce his so called discovery.
I think this is right, although even Columbus did not realize that he discovered a new continent
 he announced  anywhere, Native American, or Norse never announced their discovery

Some Native Tribes might move back to Siberia to trade, but they did notrealize that they had been to a new continent, so most of the people in the old world could not know  the news of America through these tribes, and the King of Norway even kept the news of Greenland as a secret. And i also wonder whether the Norse knew that they had reached a new continent
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2016 at 07:05
Great America was discovered by Trump aka Donald!Period.LOL
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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2016 at 11:34
I think that the Amerindians came from Siberia and were the first population to discover the Americas.

There is an alternative called the Solutrean hypothesis where Stone Age Europeans came when there was an Ice Sheet during the Ice Age, and the Ice Sheet connected Europe and America. I mentioned this in my thread about New England's megaliths:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36951
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2016 at 13:10
Anything is possible...for those wh didn't see your post..i recommend they review it and the following link... http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/16/the-solutrean-hypothesis/.

Otoh the fricking ET's might have beat em all..in finding the planet in the first place.
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  Quote EverythingBefore1812 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2017 at 18:11
Public school, Was taught about Columbus reaching central America and that he never made it to North America. Juan Ponce de León and Verrazano (bridge in NY named for him) were mentioned briefly. At the time Vikings were only known to of reach Canada. 

Indigenous: From what I understand now, is that there were a few waves of people from Asian regions into western North America about 10,000+ years ago. 

Vikings: There are archeological evidence for two Viking settlements in Canada. Including "smelting" activities. 

Mediterranean: Don't remember the name of the group, but a group (Cartesians?) from the Mediterranean went on a one way trip and landed in South America pre-columbus. The population was very small, and there is a group of indigenous persons in South America who carry the genetic markers and share them with the specific group in southern Europe. Plus they share specific tools and imagery. But not conclusive. 

Then the rest of Europeans. 

Genetics are helping to show more info. 
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2017 at 19:07
 ^You probably mean the Carthaginians.

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2017 at 06:12
My vote  is either/both "other" and/or "native Amerinds".

Americas were first discovered in BC(E) long before AD/CE (Moslems, Vikings, Columbus, etc).
Majority of Amerind legends have origins from east over sea rather than from west over land/ice/sea.
In the Americas the oldest is eastern and/or southern.
(North America was alot covered by ice at times in prehistory.)
The oldest farming and oldest civilisation in whole of Americas is the Peruvian/Andean.
Evidence is that Tiahuanaco = Atlantis capital city.
Tiahuanaco/Tiwankau / Atlantis-city was founded very early (according to Atlantis Account and acc to evidences) by Viracocha or MancoCapac (Peruvian), "Poseidon" ("Plato's" Atlantis Account), Meskiaggaseir (Sumerian king list)? Asshur/Nimrod/Cush (Bible)?
So Peruvian/Atlantean was discovered as early as the time of Sumerians.
Vira-cocha = Nin-urta/Nimrod?
The great city of Asshur (Nimrod/Cush) in Genesis 10 may possibly match Tiahuanaco/Atlantis?
Picture of the 3 pyramids at Sipan in Andes looks similar to 3 pyramids of Giza in Egypt.
Statue of man on horse in Azores pointing west with word cati/cates which means "this way" in Quechua/Incan.
But Atlantis Account says that Poseidon found native family already there.

Other pretty early evidences include:
Kennewick Man.
Clovis/Folsom similar to Solutrean.
Chancelade like Eskimo.
Otamid & Big Game Hunters like Cro-Magnon.
"Cro-Magnid" high arctic high culture site in MacKenzie river.

Phoenicians/Carthaginians certainly claimed to have had maps/etc of America(s).
There seem to be similarities between Canaanites and Mexican cultures?

Many evidences of ancient contacts between prehistoric and/or ancient Old World and New World / Americas given in sources such as Pierre Honore, Nigel Davies, Sitchin (Lost Realms), Barry Fell, Heyerdahl, SC Compton, Donald MacKenzie, Piri Reis map, etc.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2017 at 11:46
Originally posted by Sander

<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; -: initial; -: initial; -size: initial; -repeat: initial; -attachment: initial; -origin: initial; -clip: initial;"> ^You probably mean the Carthaginians.</span>
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; -: initial; -: initial; -size: initial; -repeat: initial; -attachment: initial; -origin: initial; -clip: initial;"></span>



Or the Tartessions. There have been artifacts found in NJ that have inscriptions in their lang.

"The Pemberton Axe".
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