Turk Parliament Approves Military Action

Turk Parliament has approved military action against ISIS/ISIL in Syria and Iraq.  No details yet.

Edited by red clay - 02-Oct-2014 at 14:05

Or, it could be they see an opportunity to make some fast big bucks, knowing that in the long run, ISIS doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of surviving, let alone est. an Islamic state.  No one in the middle east is "embracing" them.  They all afraid of them, and with good reason.

Edited by red clay - 02-Oct-2014 at 20:43

Ollios, you do the age old practice of whistling past the graveyard well.  Maybe you should poll the folks who have been over run by ISIS, or rather the survivors.

Edited by red clay - 03-Oct-2014 at 11:15

The spirit of the great Ataturk (may he always be remembered with honor) can only be angry Ollios.

What he created has been dismantled. Your government's current and short term past actions, internal and external agendas-goals aside for the moment; does nothing to increase their credibility nor their reliability as terrorist fighters against ISIS. Other than for internal agendas.

Because in the end we are not in reference to the others in the region who have covertly or overtly supported Islamist fanatics and terrorism. I am well aware of those and their machinations.

We are talking about Turkey.

The once, last greatest example, of what Islamist secular moderation, under a democratic form of government could achieve. And the lasting effect it might engender.

In the end we choose to fight terror be it sunni extremists or shia..or we prevaricate. We fight Isis because their savages. Who have gone beyond even the pale of sterotypical Islamist fascists like Iran.

And given their anti semitc genocidalist agendas and desire for power, that is saying a great deal.

The fact that the Sunni extremists which have formed Isis..may have had a legitimate excuse for disaffection given their oppression and minimization by a fundamentalist Shia government in Iraq..is insufficient.

Their counter to that... merely has shown their utter disregard for life hidden behind the guise of theologic conflict. We fight them because their not just Islamist fanatics but because they have betrayed their faith and have dropped to the level of criminal dogs.

Iow. "I" trusted Turkey.

Because even if with differing international agendas the Turks once, were considered, with Israel and Egypt, the staunchest and most dependable of my allies. That trust has been damaged.

My government did not support the nation's drift towards radicalism but like many could only wonder where the 'sons' of the 'great Mustafa' had gone.

It's up to you and your countrymen to bring them back.

You fight ISIS not support them.

You fight Isis because that is what the great Ataturk would have done...not for politics or exploitation or even issues of internal and or external security.


He would have fought them because their behavior is an affront to all civilized natures.

The greatness of a democratic Turkey is not found in her past squabbling...but is seen...when Turk's remember their humanity.





Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 03-Oct-2014 at 17:18

Ollios, no country in it's right mind can be a supporter of ISIS. How many Muslims have been executed by ISIS? What about the Muslim girls who had been routinely killed and blinded because they dared to go to school?
Now, you may not like the Western culture, and that is fine, no one crams it up your nose. However, no one has the right to tell other people that they have no right to get literate, or to like Western way of life, if they so wish.
ISIS is not a innocent group of angry young men, it is a totalitarian fundamentalist organization that bring its agenda bout through killing left and right. Now, if you so like that, I can only assume where your personal taste lie...and evidently not with any humanitarian values.

Personally, I'm getting sick from your antiamerican and antiwestern propaganda here. I haven't read a single grounded argument from you here, only most simplistic propaganda, and the rhetoric of hate. Please, give me some factual info here. ISIS is not real danger, because they just cut of people heads, but Shia are the real danger - because Iraq is Shia, is that it? If not, please explain why is Shia the real danger. And if you can clarify for me where is this magic way how to deal with ISIS that you have generously shown us, because I seem to have missed it. All I see is litanies how NATO is terrorist, and US and EU are I don't know what.

I personally don't care what faith, religion or denomination people have, no matter if they are Christians, Muslims, Buddhist or Wiccan, but when one starts massacring people for the heck of it, this is the where the problem is.

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis What he created has been dismantled.

It just shows that how much fragile his work.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri ISIS is nothing but a group of Sunni extremists, I don't know why Turkey wants to fight against Sunni extremists who are fighting against Shia extremists, of course both of them can be dangerous but three neighbor countries with Shia governments can be worse.

What are u suggesting?

Originally posted by Don Quixote Ollios, no country in it's right mind can be a supporter of ISIS. How many Muslims have been executed by ISIS? What about the Muslim girls who had been routinely killed and blinded because they dared to go to school?

Have a nice dream, if you think that ISID and that kind of organisations can be defeat by just bombs.

Originally posted by Don Quixote ISIS is not a innocent group of angry young men,

 

That wasn't my words, it was coming from current Turkish preminister.  

Originally posted by Don Quixote Personally, I'm getting sick from your antiamerican and antiwestern propaganda here. I haven't read a single grounded argument from you here, only most simplistic propaganda, and the rhetoric of hate. Please, give me some factual info here. ISIS is not real danger, because they just cut of people heads, but Shia are the real danger - because Iraq is Shia, is that it? If not, please explain why is Shia the real danger.

if all is about this part of my previous post;
"That reminds me statement of a Saudi General which is about ISIS is not a danger, real danger is Shias."

it was repond for Red's post ("No one in the middle east is "embracing" them.") and it is still not my words. It is coming from a Saudi General.

However it is excellent thing to show your biased perspective and grounded blames agaisnt me

Originally posted by Don Quixote I personally don't care what faith, religion or denomination people have, no matter if they are Christians, Muslims, Buddhist or Wiccan, but when one starts massacring people for the heck of it, this is the where the problem is.

Nice speech but Good and Evil can't be seperate like oil and water.

I have just watched EuroNews

and there was a term such as "armed separatists" for Russians in Ukraine, reporter is obiviously holding Ukraine side and I am sure that Russians try to show them more good.

it reminds me, what about these guys?

Are they "Innocent Ottoman Armenians" and "Armed Separatists" ?

 

For West;

Why Ukraine's territorial integrity is important but in Serbia case, it is not important? For Russians;

Why Ukraine's territorial integrity is not important but in Serbia case, it is important?

I am thowing rocks to every where but you are just seeing coming stones which come you

 

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis ''It just shows that how much fragile his work. '' Freedom and democracy are always fragile. Life and humanity as well. The defense of them however can not be.

Atatürk period is far from freedom and democracy. He did very nice things, even I am taking his religious perspective that makes him also a religious leader for me.

but that doesn't mean that we should worship him such as in Alexander the Great Ceaser and Hadrian cases.

An update from one of the best on the Coalition against ISIS.

It outlines very well the complexities.

http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/divisions-could-weaken-us-led-coalition-iraq-and-syria#axzz3FEJKw3wX

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis You don't have to worship him any more than I would Washington. But it is advisable to remember what he did. What he represented.

But when you load something to his name such as things which he represented, you are turning him a kind of taboo or idols

That is an act which belongs low cultures.

Let we prasie him for nice things what he did but also let we can be stand up and criticize /jugde him for bad things what he did.

Front side should be belong ideas, not people.

Originally posted by Don Quixote Well, well, Ollios, "Armed Armenian Separatists"...what do you suggesting? The Armenians wanted to be independent from the ottoman Empire, as by the way the Greeks, the Bulgarians, the Assyrians,and the Arabs wanted to; no one can blame them.

First of all, I believe both locution, "Innocent Ottoman Armenians" and "Armed Separatists"

Secondly, yes people can blame them because their independence also means

I can see why they want to be independent and how did they take it.

Originally posted by Don Quixote Ukrainian territory - Ukraine is not economically viable without Donetsk-Lugangsk. If you don't like that, you may consider why Turkey doesn't give the Kurds their independence; AFAIK, it is because Turkey doesn't want to lose part of its territory. So, when you give the Kurds one-third of Turkey, then you can consider Ukraine giving back half of itself.

I am trying to find logic or trying to understand mentality behind it but I don't think that I can do that. It doesn't sense anything.

If we consider countries economical positon instead of people believes/thoughts such as you did, Ottoman Empire shouldn't let Rumeli gone. Atatürk shouldn't gave Mosul to British Iraq and Turkey should attack Greek Islands which are very close Asia. 

by the way, I am open minded person about Kurdish Independece such as also about Uyghurs, Catalans etc.

Originally posted by Don Quixote If you don't like the work of Attaturk, and consider it not stable, want would you suggest? Get Turkey on the Islam roll? Get the Ottoman Empire back?

I see two posibilties in here;

First one: My english is so bad, we have communication problems. That could be, I am not much proud with my english or

Second one:  You are obsessed with me, or member of some kind of neo-nazi group 

Originally posted by Don Quixote everyone is just acting from self-interest, as it is and always will be in politics. The question is how to draw a line between the interests on everyone so no country is victimized, and everyone has left enough to be able to function. This is called compromise, and it isn't a bad word, but a way to consider the interest of all players involved.

That is the point which I agree

But, I don't see any compramise in

Kosova Independence or Abhazia Independence.

it is just acting for self-interest

Originally posted by Don Quixote Anyway this thread is about ISIL and the actions of Turkey in that case, not about the whole history of humanity, so I suggest we go back to the topic.

Ok lets go Turkey

for Brain Storm

I am sure that many of you be glad for this decision of Turkish Parliament

While Syrian Kurd leaders are screaming  for help against ISIS

Ataturks Party (CHP) and Party of Kurdish-Small Turk Left groups-by the way majority of party is Kurdish (HDP) didn't vote yes.

but Conservative ruler party (AKP) and Turkish Nationalist (MHP) voted for yes

Have you ever sensed a oddness?

My last words,


so you know nothing ...    just accept it.




Edited by Ollios - 05-Oct-2014 at 02:07

So far, the Turks have done nothing but sit at their border and watch the massacre of the Kurds, exactly the sane way the Soviets watched the massacre of the Polish Jews in Warsaw.

My opinion of the Turks cannot be posted on this forum because it would break all of the rules.  Suffice to say that the Truks are far worse than the terrorists in my mind, but then the Turks have a long history of genocide against their neighbors.