stop fluoridation poisoners

Originally posted by Arthur-Robin I hope to reply to any things of Sander's and Alani's that i need to soon if/when i am able to. But just for the mean time i will just say this: Doesn't matter what yous (anyone/everyone) say you still don't have the right to be Forcing me to only be able to have to choose between either having to eat (cups) of Fluoridated water (every meal (grains)) every day or else starve and die. You have no right to force your (unnatural/artificial) beliefs & water on me just for "my"/others teeth (that is without at least giving me some other equal alternative clean/natural water options (help)). I also don't have anymuch time or health (or water) to endlessly write answers to tons of claims. I have already posted many answers and evidences in my net/web water posts (not just this thread here) and they have just been ignored. For example the "cost-benefit analysis" claim i have smashed by showing that the only-best answer to tooth decay is not fluoridation but sugar & cleanliness etc which dissolves the "benefit" half of the equation. another example: does unfluoridated mainland Europe & Petone/Korokoro have a plague of increased tooth decay?  [Why did the Ministry of Health's own study allegedly find that unfluoridated rural children have better teeth than fluoridated urban children (assuming my source is not untrue or misunderstood by me)?] Fluoridated water you have agreed is harmful to some peoples thyroid and to sensitive people, so surely that means it is unsafe to force in on us/me without any offered options or safeguards help? You people just dismiss everything whatever trivial way you can that works. You are saying or in acting like you have the right to force fluoridated water on me and that i don't have the right to not like it being forced on me. And presumably it is my fault for being weak/degenerate/dysgenic because i am not strong/fit/superior enough to stop it/you or to find a way out by myself without help (which is only needed because being hindered/burdened by your forced water & locks picking etc in the first place). I have to accept you/they are gods and i am subject? Remember this, there is only one claimed reason why they are forcing fluoridated water on some of us: "increased incidence of (disadvantaged) (ub-urban) (childrens) tooth decay". The real root issue of increased tooth decay is (1) the sugar heaped in our foods; (2) oral uncleanliness; plus also these extras to lesser degree (3) processed carbs, (4) nutrition, (5) socio-economic inequalities, etc. The only best answer then is to address these issues especially stoping the heaping of sugar in shop foods (which i can prove); and oral cleanliness; plus some extras. Academic paper said these so its top expert facts. They refuse to address these things. They are not hard, esp the sugar one.  Putting fluoride (etc) in water doesn't stop or solve these problems and they still have to be addressed anyway. It is stupid and wrong to force fluoride in water when they won't stop heaping sugar in shop foods. But they/yous just dismiss this all so far all the times i have restated it.

Edited by Sander - 04-Sep-2017 at 21:23

Originally posted by Sander It seems there is another posibility and better explanation. I just discovered that , according to multiple studies (see URL  for citations) there is a phenomenon called Fluoride Hypersensitivity!  Though there is much debate whether fluoride is helpful or harmful, studies have shown that people have hypersensitive reactions to fluoride. As recognized by the Physicians’ Desk Reference (1994, 48th Edition, p. 2335-6), these symptoms include gastric distress, headache, joint pain, lethargy, mouth lesions, skin rashes, visual disturbances and weakness. The book also says, “These hypersensitivity reactions usually disappear promptly after discontinuation of the fluoride.”  Assure a Smile has prepared this research article to spread awareness for fluoride allergy and to provide patients with alternative methods of preventing tooth decay. ........ http://www.assureasmile.com/miami-dentist-blog/can-you-be-allergic-to-fluoride/ Physicians' Desk Reference is an authoritive source. Fluoride Hypersensitivity seems a genuine phenomenon. For persons with this sensitivity, forced fluoridation is indeed the problem. Its well known and (and often read in medication leaflets) that (almost) all meds have (potential) side effects ( next to the potentially benificial effects). That doesn't mean that all people suffer from them or suffer to the same extent but the more sensitive your are to these side effects the more you will suffer. Arthur-Robin, if you are hypersensitive to fluoridation then you (and other sensitive persons) are indeed put in trouble. It is strongly recommended that you avoid it altogether (fluoridated water and food containing such water, toothpaste ). No wonder you feel desperate. When you talk about your suffering, cite the Physicians' Desk Reference and studies regarding this sensitivity.  At the very least, your suffering and probable relation with fluoridated water etc. will (should) be taken seriously. NB: some of the links in the URL don't work but most of the cited studies can be found on the net.

Arthur-Robin, after doing a little research on hypothyroidism I took another look over what you had written earlier. What I have found may interest you. You have already stated that at times you had suffered from iodine deficiency. What you might have not realised is that one of the major contributing factors that causes people to develop hypothyroidism is getting iodine deficiency. What’s more Australia has had a major problem with iodine deficiency for some time now because of heavy agricultural practices stripping iodine out of the soil. Australia is not the only country with this problem as Australia isn’t the only country using intensive farming techniques.

Arthur-Robin you are starting to come over more and more paranoid my friend. Your priority now before carrying on looking at your issues must be your mental faculties. My guess is that you need to find out if hypothyroidism is an issue here. Please don't see this as us trying to put you off your investigations. We truly welcome you here as you are a good member and your contributions are worthwhile.

This is a reply i just had from a water filter company which is somewhat typical of my experience in last 10 years. I want to post it to show that it is not so easy as people make out, and i am not so "bum" as people make out. The water filter info is very depressing (and the info about them not adding anything to water is not true). Though the rain water info is more hopeful, but i have to find out if it really is good/possible or not.

"Hi,
There is nothing available to do what you want by connecting to a non threaded tap, remove sodium and fluoride ( which are minerals),   but retain other minerals.   Rain water collection is the only option.
In saying that I do not believe there are many minerals other than calcium ( which is added to the water)  in town supply water and you should be looking at food for mineral intake.  Reverse Osmosis is the most effective treatment option but not suited to a push on tap system as they are slow to produce pure water  ( standard domestic models around 5 litres per hour) and the work on pressure so any hand push attachment will blow off the tap.
For rain water collection, If you only want small quantities such as 200 litres, try Falcon Plastics in Paraparaumu ( also known as Plastic Welding repairs)  web site www.rainharvest.co.nz.
If you looking for whole house supplies we can supply tanks, pumps and filtration systems.  The Devan Tank price list is attached.
Kind regards,"

I want to also post a few bits of info about water filters from their site to show some worrying things. (Have to go prepare it and then post it here later when i am able.)

They have no right to force it because they could be wrong or lying (no matter how much they claim to be "experts"), and because it is not necessary (it is not the only best answer to increased incidence of tooth decay which is due to sugar heaped in foods, and oral uncleanliness, plus some other extra things), and it is sin (sugar, uncleanliness, tooth decay, force/slavery).

"Fluorine ... toxic ... highly reactive ... a most powerful oxidizing agent." - Larousse/Longman.
"Fluorine ... the  most chemically active of all the elements." - Nelson's.
"Fluorine ...  a halogen ... the most reactive element known. ... a vigourous oxidizing agent which will even oxidize chloride ion and water." - Collin's.
"Fluorine ... halogen ... it is very reactive and combines with most elements.... It is acid. ... etches glass... volatile silicon fluoride." - Pears.
"bone progressively takes up fluorine from water percolating through deposits" - Pears.
"Fluorine ... pungent corrosive gaseous element ... extremely active chemically...." - Oxford.
"Fluorine ... extremely reactive ... combines with practically all elements" - Readers Digest.
"Fluorine ... highly toxic.... As the most electronegative element, it is extremely reactive: almost all other elements ... form compounds with fluorine. ... proved difficult and dangerous to separate from its compounds, and several early experimenters died or sustained injuries.... ... corrosive hydrogen fluoride.... Global fluorichemical sales amount to us $ 15 billion a year. ... organofluorine poisons that deter herbivores." - Wikipedia.

"Halogen ... They are all poisonous. They are all oxidizing agents. They react vigourously with metals and hydrogen." - Collins.
"Halogen ... the term halogen means salt-producer". - Pears.
"Halogen ... they are reactive gases or liquids" - Longman/Larouse.

I know that they will try to worm out of this by saying "oh but compounds have different qualities/natures/attributes to elements". So we will also have to do the specific compounds that they add to our water.

Fluoride: "the fluoride ion resembles the hydroxide ion. Fluoride contributes a distinctive bitter taste." (Biblical word "wormwood" means "bitter"?)

Halide: "compound of a halogen with a more electropositive element or radicle". - Longman/Larouse.
Halide: "Metal Halides tend to be ionic". - Collins.

"Sodium fluoride ... used as ... an insecticide." - Penguin.
"Sodium fluoride Danger poison-toxic by ingestion" packaging.
"Sodium fluoride ... toxic" - packaging.
"Sodium fluoride ... poison" - packaging.
"Sodium fluoride ... Keep out of reach of children. If more than used for brushing is accidentally swallowed, get medical help or contact a poison control center right away. ... do not swallow...." - toothpaste label.

"Fluorophosphoric acids ... have been suggested as nerve-gases for chemical warfare as they inhibit the enzyme cholineesterase" - Readers Digest.

"Hydrofluoric acid ... highly corrosive and poisonous ... used in etching glass" - Longman/Larouse.
Hydrofluoric acid ... corrosive fuming liquid. attacks glass and is used for etching glass." - Penguin.

Fluoride is proven/known/accepted to harm the thyroid gland of many people.
"Thyroid an endocrine gland ... secreting thyroxine, which principally increases the rate of oxidative reactions in metabolism [of the entire organism], thus greatly influencing growth and development" - Longman/Larouse.

We will also have to add combinations like Fluoride & Alluminium (which is said to be linked with MS/ME?).

Presumably though they will also dismiss this with their lying that "oh but it disassociates in the water".
You see no matter what evidences etc that we produce they always have some "clever" cunning smart-ass way to evade/dismiss. They force it to only be one thing and only one thing that they will accept: medical proof of harm. Which one thing is not easy or possible for (fluoridated) common lay people to be able to do (because it takes time and money and resources and education and ability and freedom etc). Its not really about proof/evidence/truth but about Power/psychology/tacitics.

fluoride from fluo "flow". *
flu = influenza = influence (of stars)* = flux/flow.
(* Compare fluoridation with star wormwood fell into earth waters of bible.)



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 21-Aug-2017 at 04:13

Updated Fluoridation article from my latest letter to authorities. Part One.

The hard cold fluoridation facts. Here is a very briefest summary of the root issue of fluoridation, and then the links to my (& others) articles/papers/posts giving more detailed evidences info.

The root issue of water fluoridation is that the pushers  claim that fluoridated water is a cheap, beneficial "effective" solution to "increased incidence of (disadvantaged) (urban) (children's) tooth decay", and that it is "safe" and not harmful (with "studies" and alleged to be "monitored"), and they claim that anyone/everyone who doesn't like it supposedly has an "[easy] range of options" to avoid it. This is either genuine belief or a lie (or half and half). Since we can not prove that they are lying, we have to instead address the real root issues (which is actually the better thing to do anyway). The pushers/pros always falsely make the issue to do with "antis" having to prove that fluoridating/fluoridated water is harmful. We can reasonably prove to ourselves from multiple experiences and evidences that fluoridated (etc) water does negatively effect our (and others) health and ability, but we are not able ourselves to conduct scientific experiements/studies and so we can not prove it to them/others, so we instead address the real root issue (the better thing to do anyway). Now these are them main root issues with tooth decay:

(1) Diet : Sugar. The main cause of tooth decay is bacteria, and sugar exaserbates this. They heap sugar in our foods (esp breakfast cereals (incl wheatbix) and biscuits) (ingredients lists are in order of amount and sugar is often in the first 2 or 3). "We all know that sugar is the new crack cocaine" - quote from Newspaper review of 'That Sugar Book'. They have no right to force fluoridation on one hand while they pour sugar in our food on the other hand. If this goes to court i am instructing my legal aids to bring boxes of cereals to show to the judges eyes.
(2) Diet : (processed) carbs. Main cause of tooth decay is bacteria which processed carbs sticking to teeth exasperbates. My own experience proved this from eating flour porridge and not brushing teeth.
(3) Oral cleanliness/hygene : The main cause of tooth decay is bacteria (esp from sugar, processed carbs, and eating snacks between meals), and acid, and demineralisation. The best ways to deal with these aside from limiting the intake is to clean our teeth by brushing our teeth and rinsing our mouth etc. Any adept knows how we have to take care of things (like machines, guns, cars, etc), my own experience witnessed even holes eating metal from uncleanliness. The the MoH's "oral health on tap" is moronic.  You are admitting that NZers are unclean.
(4) diet : nutrition. Includes calcium together with vitamin d.
(5) socio-economic inequaities/disadvantages: Surely it is easy enough to address sugar and oral cleanliness. Disadvantaged people like me are also harmed/hurt by forced tap water fluoridation.
(6) topical fluoride is more effective than induced/intaken fluoride. Most people already brush their teeth with fluoridated tooth paste. There are already numerous ways people can easily get natural or supplementary fluoride if they want it (toothpaste, tablets, natural fluoride already in water, tea, some foods are naturally high in fluoride, bottled water, etc).

The main ones are the first 3. These are easy enough for authorities and individuals to address (and in fact these nevertheless still have to be addressed despite fluoridating the water anyway), and so they have no excuse for forcing fluoridated water on us, and so either they are incompetant or deceived or lying or serving sectional interests. And, as has been said by some, they are evading "individual responsibility" (while  also violating others rights of consent and freedom of choice). As usual humans are just trying to [mis-]use "science" as an easy answer to consequences of lifestyle choices because they don't want to address the root issue/s. "Prevention is better than cure". I defy/challenge you that no one can deny these facts or prove me wrong about these facts.
The MoH's own study a couple of years ago found that rural Wairarapa children better teeth than other urbans. Maoris had better teeth before modern "western" corporate consumerist diet. I have not seen/heard that Petone is any more plagued with tooth decay than all the rest of the fluoridated region? (But even if the fluoridationists possibly said they do have more incidence of tooth decay, then we have just shown the root reasons why.) Mainland Europe banned fluoridation, are they more plagued with tooth decay? (If they are you know why now.)

Israel stopped fluoridation a couple of years ago, but articles say there still people seriously disputing it. There is no genuine serious dispute, we have proven what the real root issues of tooth decay are.


Just to additionally touch the is or is not harmful: what if they are wrong? We are harmed. What if we are wrong? No one is harmed (as long as they address the real root issues of tooth decay). They have not and cannot prove it is not harmful/hindering to health/ability. They can not control the intake of fluoride or water (some people like me have a higher daily water intake diet due to situation).
Pushers claim that there is already fluoride naturally in varying degrees in all water. But this is untrue twisting. The fluoride they add to our water is not the same compound and not in the same amount. Plus they don't also consider the alluminium also in the tap water which combined with fluoride may be harmful. The packets of fluoride they add to our water say "toxic" "haxchem" etc. Water that is naturally very high in fluoride is also a concern of people. You can not mess around with such an important essential necessity of daily life like water so riskily with such impunity. Water chemical toxins and not just biological toxins have wrecked many peoples mental health throughout history. "Let us all put our hand on our head." (Google image search "hand on head" and see this is common when fluoridated.)
Fluoride in water is colourless/invisible, tastless and odourless, so just because the water looks/tastes/smells clean it doesn't mean its good and not bad.

Its not just the water either, years ago i noticed that the fluoridated tooth paste seemed to be mkaing me dumb during the day.

Secondly the issue is not just about fluoride, they also treat the water with 4 other things and add 3 other things, and various of these things by them selves or in combination seemingly maybe harmful to health/ability.
No one can tell us that they do all these treatments and additives to stop biological toxins (or to stop hard water scales, or to make water more soap lathering and not scum trouble, or ph adjustment), because they said they only treat Petone water (sourced from exact same source) with lime, and they said that the upper (Upper) Hutt river near twin lakes is already pretty clean, plus the Dutch have a water checking system "the Dutch secret" which doesn't even require chlorine/chloride (though we are not so concerned with chlorine/chloride, though we have seen evidences claims that it contributes to cancer etc).

(The fluoride etc also seems to make the water more corrosive/caustic/soft. Soft water sitting in metal fittings, pipes, tanks, pots also picks up heavy metals (lead, cadmium, copper, etc). The council and everyone else never told me this and 9 years ago i got very sick and lost alot in a crisis. They do say on their website about lead in tap fittings, but it is like they only very barely even admit it, and they only say to flush just a cup's amount (in contrast a scientific/technical site on water says [15-30?] mins to flush the lines), and its only on a webpage where only people who have the web/net have to go looking for it.)

quote "We use the following chemicals during the treatment process at our Te Marua Water Treatment Plant:
- Carbon dioxide (CO2)
- Lime (Ca(OH)2)
- Polyaluminium chloride (Al2(SO4)3.18H2O) [Alum?]
- Polyelectrolyte
We also dose the following into the treated water:
- Sodium hydroxide (NaOH) [caustic soda]
- Sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl)
- Chlorine gas (Cl2)
- Fluoride (Na2SiF6)"

If yous refuse to address the root issues, then i have the (need and) right to request some other (proven) alternative clean water equal option (offered help not just words or info or force).

Our need and right to (clean) (running) (home/work/school) (tap) water (which is one of the topmost essential necessities of daily life) is not only equal but far greater than everyone else's need or right to sugar or fluoridated tap water. "Majority" vs "minority" doesn't count, since the answer to the root issue nullifies this. Yes i have to care about other peoples tooth decay (and we have give you quick and easy enough asnwers to that), but who cares about my not having clean water and being harmed/hindered because yous force the bad water on me? It is far easier for them to stop putting sugar in food, for people to avoid sugar, for people to add their own sugar, for people to brush their teeth, for people to get natural/supplementary fluoride, etc than it is for disadvantaged people like me to avoid fluoridated water and/or to get clean water (esp from dozens of kilometers away by hand/foot/trolley/train). I have already proven that all the ridiculous hyper-individualistic supposedly "easy enough" alternative water options are not so "easy" or possible for disadvantaged people like me (without equal options help). Everyone just keeps coming up with every possible ridiculous hyper-individualistic alternative water option instead of confronting the root issues / sectional interests.


Refs and/or Links to articles/papers/posts giving the facts:

My paper/article in various stages editions:
http://iwillnotbeassimilated.blogspot.co.nz/p/water-versus-fluoride.html
http://historum.com/blogs/rob+banks/30958-water-fluoridation-facts.html
http://www.freewebs.com/lifetradition/fluoridation.htm
https://2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com/2014/01/22/water-fluoridation-poisoners/
http://2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/fighting-for-our-health/
quotes:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36935
health tips:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36150&PN=2
My net/web comments/posts/threads on fluoridation, water & my situation http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?7,1063143
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?4,1087088
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/05/conspiracy-watch-fluoride-pinko-plot#comment-1990703355
Post in sceptics in the pub forum.
Fluoridated water called "kool-aid" by pushers/pros:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?163806-Fluoride-not-a-conspiracy&p=4054482#post4054482
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21946-popes-office-in-the-bible/page-3

sedgeford archaeological society paper.
MoH's own wairarapa children study.

http://fluoridefree.org.nz/ (prev http://fannz.org.nz/)
award-winning journalist Christopher Bryson on "fluoride deception" http://youtu.be/Q3y8uwtxrHo .
http://www.rotoruadailypost.co.nz/news/whats-the-problem-with-fluoride-in-our-water/1394123 .
South Taranaki court case notes/paper.
"nz dentist exposes/blows whistle on fluoride" news item.
"4,200 health & science professionals sign 'Professionals' Statement'".
Wapf.
Dr Mercola;  Dr Paul Connett; Dr John Colquhoun.
antifluoride (Facebook group page).
national anarchist blog;
infowars.com;
'fluoride detective' blog.
science study on fluoride & multiple sclerosis found by google searching that.
www.pure-earth.com/chlorine.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_decay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothbrush
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miswak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation
wikipedia article on "kool-aid" (near end of main article).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltitol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia
wiki article of water filter(s) mentions dangers of filtered water

breakfast cereal packaging labels ingredients lists.
fluoride packaging labels.

http://www.drink-water-eng-sci.net/2/1/2009/dwes-2-1-2009.pdf

Part Two is on how the supposedly "easy" "range of options" to avoid fluoridated water are not so "easy" for disadvantaged people like me.

Arthur-Robin, this is a forum where debate is encouraged on subjects submitted, and not a dumping ground where people can simply dump their rants and run. You have surely been a member here long enough to understand this fact.

Arthur-Robin, I may disagree with your findings. However I am in no doubt that you have medical issues. My advice is to have your thyroid checks done. You have family history, and the symptoms you describe seem to go along with that.