Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Book of Dede Korkut Posted: 19-Oct-2013 at 13:43 |
Book of Dede Korkut is Illiad for Oghuz Turks. If this book is Illiad. Dede Korkut is Homer. He is teller of the stories. He is also inside the story. Finally, I have finished ithis book. The stories form 13,14 or 15th century. Some people believe that it is older then it
Originally posted by
Geoffery Lewis dates it fairly early in the 15th century[2][3]
with an older substratum of these oral traditions dating to conflicts
between the ancient Oghuz and their Turkish rivals in Central Asia (the Pecheneks and the Kipchaks). However, according to him, this substratum has been clothed in references to the 14th-century campaigns of the Akkoyunlu Confederation. Cemal Kafadar mentions that it was no earlier than the 15th century[4] based on the fact that the author is buttering up both the Akkoyunlu and Ottoman ruler. Stanford Jay Shaw (1977) in his history of the Ottoman empire dates it in the 14th century.[5]
Professor Michael E. Meeker believes that the stories and songs have
emerged no earlier than the beginning of the 13th century and were
written down no later than the beginning of the 15th century.[6] Some scholars in Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan place it in the 8th century[citation needed]. A precise determination is impossible to come by due to the nomadic lifestyle of the early Turkic people,
where epics such as Dede Korkut were passing from generation to
generation in an oral form. This is especially true of an epic book such
as this, which is a product of a long series of narrators, any of whom
could have made alterations and additions, right down to the two
16th-century scribes who authored the oldest extant manuscripts.[7] The majority of scholars of ancient Turkic epics and folk tales, such as Russian-Soviet academician Vasily Bartold and British scholar Geoffrey Lewis, believe that the Dede Korkut text "exhibits a number of features characteristic of Azeri, the Turkish dialect of Azerbaijan".[8] |
There are two old copies of the book; one in Vatican which have 8 stories in it one in Royal Library of Dresden in Germany, which have 12 stories in it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Dede_Korkut
Edited by Ollios - 19-Oct-2013 at 13:43
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
Bilge Chanyu
Immortal Guard
Joined: 13-Oct-2013
Location: Istanbul
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 19-Oct-2013 at 14:08 |
Deli Dumrul is the famous character in Turkey. The Angel of death (Azrael) is my friend Deli Dumrul is my comrade :)
|
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Oct-2013 at 01:44 |
Originally posted by Bilge Chanyu
Deli Dumrul is the famous character in Turkey. The Angel of death (Azrael) is my friend Deli Dumrul is my comrade :) |
Yes, Deli Dumrul is the most famous Hero and Tepegöz is also well-known creature in Turkey
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Oct-2013 at 02:31 |
*Dede Korkut is not just a ordinary guy, he is a holly oracle. The book says "Dede Korkut tells a news from obscurity". Boy can't take a name untill he success something and Korkut always comes and give a name, not parents of child *In that period, Turks have already been a muslim, so you can see it in the stories *The book begins with a prophecy about Ottomans. It is something like that "Kayı Tribe will be Han (Ruler) until the doomsday and these people are Ottomans " *There is also another small story in the begining. There are four types women, according to Korkut -The first one is main pillar of the house and who comes from Aisha(daugther of the first caliph and one of the Mohammed's wife) and Fatma(daugther of the Mohammed). Even her husband isn't at home, she respects the guests and give him something to eat. -The second one eats everything and says, "I won't eat anything". She complains about her husband -The third one donesn't do any housework and spends her time with going around and gossiping -The fourth one doesn't want to do the honors, if there is meal, she eats it and never gives it to guests, she comes from "donkey of Noah" This is the last point in hospitality After these, there are twelve main stories in the book
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
Qaradag
Knight
Joined: 27-Jan-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 64
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 21-Oct-2013 at 08:14 |
The Khan of all Oghuz lands (İç and Dış Oğuz) is Bayandır Khan ("Xanlar Xanı - Xan Bayındır bir gün yerdən turmuşdı" as one story starts), and Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation.
Originally posted by Ollios
Deli Dumrul is the most famous Hero |
In Azerbaijan it is Salur Qazan.
Edited by Qaradag - 21-Oct-2013 at 08:32
|
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 21-Oct-2013 at 15:40 |
Originally posted by Qaradag
The Khan of all Oghuz lands (İç and Dış Oğuz) is Bayandır Khan ("Xanlar Xanı - Xan Bayındır bir gün yerdən turmuşdı" as one story starts), and Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation. |
My book says İç Oğuz=Üç Ok, Dış Oğuz=Boz Ok, so I am thinking like that There are two Mongolia; real Mongolia and Inner Mongolia. Oghuz structure was same in the book. Inner Oghuz External Oghuz but real land is Inner one and ruler of Inner land also ruler of all country and as you said Bayındır Han was ruler of all Oghuz "Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation." This is very interesting information, what else? What about other important guys in the book?
Originally posted by Qaradag
In Azerbaijan it is Salur Qazan.
|
Salur Qazan = Salghurids (Atabegs of Fars) ?
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
yomud
Baron
Inactive
Joined: 04-Oct-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 399
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Oct-2013 at 09:07 |
Originally posted by Qaradag
In Azerbaijan it is Salur Qazan.
|
Salur Qazan = Salghurids (Atabegs of Fars) ?[/QUOTE] maybe but we call salgur qazan as salgur dada . salghurs are one of the strongest atabegs in seljuk era and you know every 24 tribe have it's own legendary hero in the time of seljuk's civil war they were enemy of atabeg of azerbijan from north , atabeg of yazd from east and atabeg of mosul from west they destroy atabeg of azerbijan but in the end they accept mongols as their new master . Finally, I have finished his book.does this book is related to sky tengiri or asina ?? dose this tell anything about us b4 we became muslem ???
|
yomud are free people
|
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Oct-2013 at 17:19 |
Originally posted by yomud
you know every 24 tribe have it's own legendary hero in the time of seljuk's civil war
|
No, I don't. Please tell me more
Originally posted by yomud
does this book is related to sky tengiri or asina ?? dose this tell anything about us b4 we became muslem ???
|
What a shame, how can't you read it I won't tell and also you never got close. In the book, Oghuz have already Muslim but of course, you can find something from Central Asia *giving name ceremony (a child can't take a name untill he succeed something. I think it is also in native american culture) *warrior princess *drinking kımız
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
Sander
AE Moderator
Joined: 20-Mar-2007
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 597
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-Oct-2013 at 19:37 |
When I looked for some info, I saw this video made by a man explaining what he calls " the first principle of Turkish Martial arts " refering to a story from the Book of Dede Korkut :
The video description:
The Ballad of Dede Korkut has the tale, Bamsi Beyrek, which actually describes the Turkish warrior tradition, even from the pre Islamic times. It has a clear and explicit description of the philosophy of yielding and redirecting that is a huge part of Japanese Martial Arts."
Edited by Sander - 27-Oct-2013 at 19:47
|
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-Oct-2013 at 12:53 |
Originally posted by Sander
When I looked for some info, I saw this video made by a man explaining what he calls " the first principle of Turkish Martial arts " refering to a story from the Book of Dede Korkut :
The video description:
The Ballad of Dede Korkut has the tale, Bamsi Beyrek, which actually describes the Turkish warrior tradition, even from the pre Islamic times. It has a clear and explicit description of the philosophy of yielding and redirecting that is a huge part of Japanese Martial Arts."
|
Nice video, but Bamsi Berek isn't the guy who defeated a bull. He is Boğaç(maybe Boghach for you guys) and Boğa means bull.
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
yomud
Baron
Inactive
Joined: 04-Oct-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 399
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Nov-2013 at 03:04 |
Originally posted by ollios
] No, I don't. Please tell me more |
well i dont have much to tell but most i just know every 24 tribe have it's own legendary hero and they are proud about having such a heros
Originally posted by ollios
] What a shame, how can't you read it |
yea what a shame i dont have right to study my people's origane most of website here are filter and the book is not sold in our book shops what should i do ?? b4 i came here i even don't know what does the gerey or gharesh means later i learn it from you they were our GODS . here gerey is surname and gharesh is male first name now tell us more about the book and warrior princess !
|
yomud are free people
|
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Nov-2013 at 13:46 |
Originally posted by yomud
yea what a shame i dont have right to study my people's origane most of website here are filter and the book is not sold in our book shops what should i do ??
|
I know that you can't access youtube but maybe this link helps you. An online book but in Turkey Turkish http://cepsitesi.net/files/Tablet_E-Kitaplar/Muharrem_Ergin/Muharrem_Ergin_-_Dede_Korkut_Kitabi_-_CepSitesi.Net.pdf
Originally posted by yomud
b4 i came here i even don't know what does the gerey or gharesh means later i learn it from you they were our GODS .
|
I learnt it after trying to write something about them in here. I won't grow up with them. Greek gods are more famous in Turkey. Even using word Tanrı-Tengri instead of Allah is problem in Turkey,in some enviroments.
Originally posted by yomud
now tell us more about the book and warrior princess !
|
I want to mention all stories by one by one but not now
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
Qaradag
Knight
Joined: 27-Jan-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 64
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Nov-2013 at 18:03 |
Originally posted by Ollios
Originally posted by Qaradag
The Khan of all Oghuz lands (İç and Dış Oğuz) is Bayandır Khan ("Xanlar Xanı - Xan Bayındır bir gün yerdən turmuşdı" as one story starts), and Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation. |
My book says İç Oğuz=Üç Ok, Dış Oğuz=Boz Ok, so I am thinking like that There are two Mongolia; real Mongolia and Inner Mongolia.
Oghuz structure was same in the book. Inner Oghuz External Oghuz
but real land is Inner one and ruler of Inner land also ruler of all country and as you said Bayındır Han was ruler of all Oghuz
"Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation." This is very interesting information, what else? What about other important guys in the book?
Originally posted by Qaradag
In Azerbaijan it is Salur Qazan.
|
Salur Qazan = Salghurids (Atabegs of Fars) ?
|
I mentioned that as a possible connection to the Ağ Qoyunlu, since they were Bayandurs too (and as we see the Khan of all Oghuzes is from Bayandur tribe in Dede Korkut). I don't think so. But Salur was an Oghuz tribe.
|
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Nov-2013 at 02:41 |
Originally posted by Qaradag
I mentioned that as a possible connection to the Ağ Qoyunlu, since they were Bayandurs too (and as we see the Khan of all Oghuzes is from Bayandur tribe in Dede Korkut).
|
Ak Koyunlu can be. At least the geography is same. Turks are fighting with Georgia and taking the princess of Trabzon(the city which is located on Turkish East Blacksea Coast) These are western borders of Ak koyunlu federation. Maybe early years of Ak Koyunlu
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
yomud
Baron
Inactive
Joined: 04-Oct-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 399
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Nov-2013 at 18:47 |
ty ollios now i will read it myself !
|
yomud are free people
|
|
Ollios
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 15-Nov-2013 at 13:43 |
Originally posted by yomud
ty ollios now i will read it myself !
|
I am glad to see that you can use my link in Iran
|
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
|
|
yomud
Baron
Inactive
Joined: 04-Oct-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 399
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Nov-2013 at 18:13 |
|
yomud are free people
|
|
Qaradag
Knight
Joined: 27-Jan-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 64
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Jan-2014 at 21:37 |
Intro from Salur Qazan's story.
"Ulaş oğlı, Tülü quşun yavrısı, bizə miskin umudı, Amit soyının
aslanı, Qaracuğın qaplanı, qonur atın yiyəsi, xan Uruzın ağası, Bayındır
xanın göygüsi, Qalın Oğuzın dövləti, qalmış yigit arxası, Salur Qazan
yerindən turmuşdı. Toqsan başlu ban evlərin qara yerin üzərinə
tikdirmişdi. Toqsan yerdə ala-qalı ipək döşəmişdi. Səksən yerdə badyələr
qurulmışdı. Altun ayaq sürahilər düzülmüşdi. Toqquz qara gözlü, xub
yüzlü, saçı ardına urulu, köksi qızıl dügməli, əlləri biləgindən qınalı,
barmaqları nigarlı məhbub kafər qızları Qalın Oğuz bəglərinə sağraq
sürüb içərlərdi."
Edited by Qaradag - 04-Jan-2014 at 21:39
|
|
opuslola
Tsar
suspended
Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Jan-2014 at 22:18 |
You know it is sad that language problems continue to plague our discussions! Although you guys do a good job.
Ron
|
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
|
|
toyomotor
Baron
BANNED TROLL
Joined: 25-Dec-2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 387
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Jan-2014 at 22:55 |
Originally posted by opuslola
You know it is sad that language problems continue to plague our discussions! Although you guys do a good job.
Ron |
What a condescending comment. Who do you mean by "you guys"?
|
|