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Book of Dede Korkut

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Book of Dede Korkut
    Posted: 19-Oct-2013 at 13:43
Book of Dede Korkut is Illiad for Oghuz Turks. If this book is Illiad. Dede Korkut is Homer. He is teller of the stories. He is also inside the story. Finally, I have finished ithis book.

The stories form 13,14 or 15th century. Some people believe that it is older then it 
Originally posted by

Geoffery Lewis dates it fairly early in the 15th century[2][3] with an older substratum of these oral traditions dating to conflicts between the ancient Oghuz and their Turkish rivals in Central Asia (the Pecheneks and the Kipchaks). However, according to him, this substratum has been clothed in references to the 14th-century campaigns of the Akkoyunlu Confederation. Cemal Kafadar mentions that it was no earlier than the 15th century[4] based on the fact that the author is buttering up both the Akkoyunlu and Ottoman ruler. Stanford Jay Shaw (1977) in his history of the Ottoman empire dates it in the 14th century.[5] Professor Michael E. Meeker believes that the stories and songs have emerged no earlier than the beginning of the 13th century and were written down no later than the beginning of the 15th century.[6] Some scholars in Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan place it in the 8th century[citation needed]. A precise determination is impossible to come by due to the nomadic lifestyle of the early Turkic people, where epics such as Dede Korkut were passing from generation to generation in an oral form. This is especially true of an epic book such as this, which is a product of a long series of narrators, any of whom could have made alterations and additions, right down to the two 16th-century scribes who authored the oldest extant manuscripts.[7] The majority of scholars of ancient Turkic epics and folk tales, such as Russian-Soviet academician Vasily Bartold and British scholar Geoffrey Lewis, believe that the Dede Korkut text "exhibits a number of features characteristic of Azeri, the Turkish dialect of Azerbaijan".[8]


There are two old copies of the book;
one in Vatican which have 8 stories in it
one in Royal Library of Dresden in Germany, which have 12 stories in it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Dede_Korkut


Edited by Ollios - 19-Oct-2013 at 13:43
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  Quote Bilge Chanyu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2013 at 14:08

Deli Dumrul is the famous character in Turkey.

The Angel of death (Azrael) is my friend

Deli Dumrul is my comrade

:) 

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2013 at 01:44
Originally posted by Bilge Chanyu

Deli Dumrul is the famous character in Turkey.

The Angel of death (Azrael) is my friend

Deli Dumrul is my comrade

:) 



Yes, Deli Dumrul is the most famous Hero and Tepegöz is also well-known creature in Turkey
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2013 at 02:31
*Dede Korkut is not just a ordinary guy, he is a holly oracle. The book says "Dede Korkut tells a news from obscurity". Boy can't take a name untill he success something and Korkut always comes and give a name, not parents of child

*In that period, Turks have already been a muslim, so you can see it in the stories

*The book begins with a prophecy about Ottomans. It is something like that "Kayı Tribe will be Han (Ruler) until the doomsday and these people are Ottomans "

*There is also another small story in the begining. There are four types women, according to Korkut
-The first one is main pillar of the house and who comes from Aisha(daugther of the first caliph and one of the Mohammed's wife) and Fatma(daugther of the Mohammed). Even her husband isn't at home, she respects the guests and give him something to eat. 
-The second one eats everything and says, "I won't eat anything". She complains about her husband
-The third one donesn't do any housework and spends her time with going around and gossiping
-The fourth one doesn't want to do the honors, if there is meal, she eats it and never gives it to guests, she comes from "donkey of Noah"
 
This is the last point in hospitality Big smile

After these, there are twelve main stories in the book


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  Quote Qaradag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2013 at 08:14
The Khan of all Oghuz lands (İç and Dış Oğuz) is Bayandır Khan ("Xanlar Xanı - Xan Bayındır bir gün yerdən turmuşdı" as one story starts), and Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation.

Originally posted by Ollios

Deli Dumrul is the most famous Hero


In Azerbaijan it is Salur Qazan.


Edited by Qaradag - 21-Oct-2013 at 08:32
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2013 at 15:40
Originally posted by Qaradag

The Khan of all Oghuz lands (İç and Dış Oğuz) is Bayandır Khan ("Xanlar Xanı - Xan Bayındır bir gün yerdən turmuşdı" as one story starts), and Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation.


My book says İç Oğuz=Üç Ok, Dış Oğuz=Boz Ok, so I am thinking like that

There are two Mongolia; real Mongolia and Inner Mongolia.

Oghuz structure was same in the book.
Inner Oghuz
External Oghuz

but real land is Inner one and ruler of Inner land also ruler of all country and as you said Bayındır Han was ruler of all Oghuz

"Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation."
This is very interesting information, what else? What about other important guys in the book?

Originally posted by Qaradag


In Azerbaijan it is Salur Qazan.

Salur Qazan = Salghurids (Atabegs of Fars) ?
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2013 at 09:07

Originally posted by Qaradag


In Azerbaijan it is Salur Qazan.

Salur Qazan = Salghurids (Atabegs of Fars) ?
[/QUOTE] maybe but we call salgur qazan as salgur dada   . salghurs are one of the strongest atabegs in seljuk era and you know Winkevery 24 tribe have it's own legendary hero Big smile in the time of seljuk's  civil war  they were enemy of atabeg of azerbijan from north , atabeg of yazd from east and atabeg of mosul from west they destroy atabeg of azerbijan  but in the end they accept mongols as their new master

. Finally, I have finished his book.

does this book is related to sky tengiri or asina  ?? dose this tell anything about us b4 we became muslem ???
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2013 at 17:19
Originally posted by yomud


 you know Winkevery 24 tribe have it's own legendary hero Big smile in the time of seljuk's  civil war


No, I don't. Please tell me more

Originally posted by yomud


does this book is related to sky tengiri or asina  ?? dose this tell anything about us b4 we became muslem ???


What a shame, how can't you read it Big smile I won't tell and also you never got close. In the book, Oghuz have already Muslim but of course, you can find something from Central Asia

*giving name ceremony (a child can't take a name untill he succeed something. I think it is also in native american culture)
*warrior princess
*drinking kımız

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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2013 at 19:37
When I looked for some info, I saw this video made by a man explaining what he calls " the first principle of Turkish Martial arts " refering to a story from the Book of Dede Korkut :
 

The video description:

The Ballad of Dede Korkut has the tale, Bamsi Beyrek, which actually describes the Turkish warrior tradition, even from the pre Islamic times. It has a clear and explicit description of the philosophy of yielding and redirecting that is a huge part of Japanese Martial Arts."
 
 
 
 
 
 
Star
 


Edited by Sander - 27-Oct-2013 at 19:47
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2013 at 12:53
Originally posted by Sander

When I looked for some info, I saw this video made by a man explaining what he calls " the first principle of Turkish Martial arts " refering to a story from the Book of Dede Korkut :
 

The video description:

The Ballad of Dede Korkut has the tale, Bamsi Beyrek, which actually describes the Turkish warrior tradition, even from the pre Islamic times. It has a clear and explicit description of the philosophy of yielding and redirecting that is a huge part of Japanese Martial Arts."
 

Nice video, but Bamsi Berek isn't the guy who defeated a bull. He is Boğaç(maybe Boghach for you guys) and Boğa means bull.

 http://wowturkey.com/tr75/k_BAkbas_bogachan.jpg
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2013 at 03:04
Originally posted by ollios

] No, I don't. Please tell me more
well i dont have much to tell but most i just know every 24 tribe have it's own legendary hero and they are proud about having such a heros

Originally posted by ollios

] What a shame, how can't you read it
yea what a shame i dont have right to study my people's origane most of website here are filter and the book is not sold in our book shops what should i do ?? b4 i came here i even don't know what does the gerey or gharesh means later i  learn it from you they were our GODS . here gerey is surname and gharesh is male first name

now tell us more about the book and warrior princess  ! EmbarrassedLOLStar
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2013 at 13:46
Originally posted by yomud

yea what a shame i dont have right to study my people's origane most of website here are filter and the book is not sold in our book shops what should i do ??


Cry I know that you can't access youtube but maybe this link helps you.
     An online book but in Turkey Turkish
http://cepsitesi.net/files/Tablet_E-Kitaplar/Muharrem_Ergin/Muharrem_Ergin_-_Dede_Korkut_Kitabi_-_CepSitesi.Net.pdf

Originally posted by yomud


b4 i came here i even don't know what does the gerey or gharesh means later i  learn it from you they were our GODS .

I learnt it after trying to write something about them in here. I won't grow up with them. Greek gods are more famous in Turkey. Even using word Tanrı-Tengri instead of Allah is problem in Turkey,in some enviroments.
 
Originally posted by yomud


now tell us more about the book and warrior princess  ! EmbarrassedLOLStar


I want to mention all stories by one by one but not now
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  Quote Qaradag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2013 at 18:03
Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by Qaradag

The Khan of all Oghuz lands (İç and Dış Oğuz) is Bayandır Khan ("Xanlar Xanı - Xan Bayındır bir gün yerdən turmuşdı" as one story starts), and Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation.


My book says İç Oğuz=Üç Ok, Dış Oğuz=Boz Ok, so I am thinking like that

There are two Mongolia; real Mongolia and Inner Mongolia.

Oghuz structure was same in the book.
Inner Oghuz
External Oghuz

but real land is Inner one and ruler of Inner land also ruler of all country and as you said Bayındır Han was ruler of all Oghuz

"Bayandur was the ruling tribe of Ağqoyunlu federation."
This is very interesting information, what else? What about other important guys in the book?

Originally posted by Qaradag


In Azerbaijan it is Salur Qazan.

Salur Qazan = Salghurids (Atabegs of Fars) ?


I mentioned that as a possible connection to the Ağ Qoyunlu, since they were Bayandurs too (and as we see the Khan of all Oghuzes is from Bayandur tribe in Dede Korkut). Wink

I don't think so. But Salur was an Oghuz tribe.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2013 at 02:41
Originally posted by Qaradag


I mentioned that as a possible connection to the Ağ Qoyunlu, since they were Bayandurs too (and as we see the Khan of all Oghuzes is from Bayandur tribe in Dede Korkut). Wink


Ak Koyunlu can be. At least the geography is same. Turks are fighting with Georgia and taking the princess of Trabzon(the city which is located on Turkish East Blacksea Coast) These are western borders of Ak koyunlu federation. Maybe early years of Ak Koyunlu
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2013 at 18:47
ty ollios now i will read it myself !Approve
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2013 at 13:43
Originally posted by yomud

ty ollios now i will read it myself !Approve


I am glad to see that you can use my link in IranBig smile
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2013 at 18:13
Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by yomud

ty ollios now i will read it myself !Approve


I am glad to see that you can use my link in IranBig smile
yea but reading process is too slow !! speaking turkish is one thing reading is another im glad you don't see me reading it !!! like little children who trying reading something for first time !! LOL

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  Quote Qaradag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2014 at 21:37
Intro from Salur Qazan's story.

"Ulaş oğlı, Tülü quşun yavrısı, bizə miskin umudı, Amit soyının aslanı, Qaracuğın qaplanı, qonur atın yiyəsi, xan Uruzın ağası, Bayındır xanın göygüsi, Qalın Oğuzın dövləti, qalmış yigit arxası, Salur Qazan yerindən turmuşdı. Toqsan başlu ban evlərin qara yerin üzərinə tikdirmişdi. Toqsan yerdə ala-qalı ipək döşəmişdi. Səksən yerdə badyələr qurulmışdı. Altun ayaq sürahilər düzülmüşdi. Toqquz qara gözlü, xub yüzlü, saçı ardına urulu, köksi qızıl dügməli, əlləri biləgindən qınalı, barmaqları nigarlı məhbub kafər qızları Qalın Oğuz bəglərinə sağraq sürüb içərlərdi."


Edited by Qaradag - 04-Jan-2014 at 21:39
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2014 at 22:18
You know it is sad that language problems continue to plague our discussions! Although you guys do a good job.

Ron
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2014 at 22:55
Originally posted by opuslola

You know it is sad that language problems continue to plague our discussions! Although you guys do a good job.

Ron


What a condescending comment. Who do you mean by "you guys"?
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