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Topic ClosedWho are the descendants of ancient Scythi

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who are the descendants of ancient Scythi
    Posted: 13-May-2005 at 02:43
Just Ossetians and Tajiks? Or Slavic peoples can be also considered?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 06:33
Tajiks.. are considered turkic... and the russians believe they are the decendents somehow of the scynthians ( Skif in russian)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 06:43
Tajiks are certainly Iranian, I haven't heard that even Turks say that they are Turkic!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 07:04
I must have fallen asleep I read turkoman so sorry my mistake!!
But I have to say that persia has nothing to do with scynthians. They actually, as I remember that the synthian army totaly massacred one of the largest persian army that was sent against them..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 10:03

Bu Trk Belerinde at belglk
Tunga Alp Er idi kat belglk

Bedk bilgi birle k erdemi
Biliglig ukulug budun kdremi

Tacikler ayur n Afrasyab
Bu Afrasyap tutd iller talab

This poet (saga) has been imported from a Turkish legend by Kasgarli Mahmut in his book of Turkish Dictionary in the 11th century.

It says that " Alper Tunga was the well known hero in Turkish Begs by his hollyness and valor. Taciks (Iranians) called him as Afrasyab and Afrasyap ruled the world." The Alper Tunga legend is very well known and long legend inside Turkish peoples.

As you know Afrasyap is the rulers of Turan in Iranian's famous Firdevsi's Shahname during the fights of Iran - Turan. The river of Oxus is the border with Iran and Turan.

Many people (Europeans) consider Afrasyap as Scythians. If he was really Scythians it means that Scythians were Turkic. In fact here, we should be careful about not confusing Scythians and Sakas. Scythians were living on west of Black Sea according to Herodotus. But Iranians were calling all steppe people as Sakas including Scythians.......It would be better to call Alper Tunga as Saka. 


 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 13:13

Yes, I agree.

And here is another ancient Turkic poem from the legend of Alp Er Tunga of Saka:

1.Alp Er Tunga ldi mi?         &nb sp; 

   Esiz acun kald m?         &nb sp;      

   zlek in ald m?     

   Emdi yrek trtulur.

2.Begler atn argurup

   Kadgu an turgurup

   Mengzi yzi sargarup

   Krkm angar trtlr.        &nb sp;  



Edited by Oguzoglu
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 13:32
unfortunately nobody else than those who've already know it can't understand this beautiful poem !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 13:54

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Just Ossetians and Tajiks? Or Slavic peoples can be also considered?

As far as i know, Scythians and Sarmatians were Iranian people related to Persians and Bactrians. They are mentioned to speak Persian and Ugrian languages and if i am not mistaken they were called Saka.

Now about the Slavic people, i think its estimated that the populations of Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, etc have some Scythian/Sarmatian blood since Scythians moved into their area and could possibly have mixed to some degree with the local populations as an Ukranian archaeologist says here.

http://www.brama.com/news/press/001022scythian_migration.htm l 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 14:06

But I have to say that persia has nothing to do with scynthians.

Persians and Scyhtians are Iranian peoples, aren't they?

As you know Afrasyap is the rulers of Turan in Iranian's famous Firdevsi's Shahname during the fights of Iran - Turan.

Afrasyab or more exactly Frasyak (Modern Persian Harasnak) means "frightener" in Persian, it was just a title for the frightening enemy of Iran.

Many people (Europeans) consider Afrasyap as Scythians. If he was really Scythians it means that Scythians were Turkic.

It is better to say some Turks were originally Scythians or some Scythians were Turkisized!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 15:10
SCYTHIANS were members of a nomadic people speaking an Iranian language, who immigrated from Central Asia to Southern Russian in the 8th - 7th centuries BC. According to Herodotus, Scyths or Sacae, (or some of them) claimed to have migrated from the Altai Mountains at the eastern extreme of the Western Steppe....

   650 BC Scythian invasion into Europe
It is always hard to tell the exact ethnic origin of the peoples who were generated by the Central Asian steppes and later invaded European civilizations. The process of contacts and assimilations led to the mixture of peoples, so deep that we can even hardly name the language of this or that ethnic group. Most likely such groups, known in the European history as Hunns, Sarmatians, Scythians, Cymmerians, Avars, Alans, were in fact not single nations, but the unions of several peoples, frequently with different ethnic and language origin.

That is why some linguists identify Scythians as an Iranian people, and some say they were probably Turkish or of some other origin. In fact, Scythians could be a mess of Indo-European, Turkish, Uralic tribes synthesizing different cultures.

Scythians crossed the steppes north to the Black Sea, not touching the forest regions north, and reached the Northern Balkans. Much toponymic material from modern South Russia, Ukraine, Romania show Scythian traces in the names of places, rivers, hills. Scythian tribes lived here up to the 3rd century AD, when they were crushed by the Hunns from Asia. Most probably the Scythian language was Iranian, though suffering strong influence of Slavic and Thracian languages. Moreover, Slavic languages were the most influenced by Scythian - the phonetic features of modern South Russian dialects and the Ukrainian language still carries certain Iranian substratum; and the rivers Don, Dnepr and Dnestr are all Iranian in origin, from the stem dn-.

So it seems turks have more ties with persians than various turkic tribes, peoples, and the Seljuks..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2005 at 23:01
Hmm interesting terms, Turkisized, and I read earlier in the greece forum about Greeks being Turkemcized. I don't know what sort of medical precudures these are but I certainly wouldn't want them
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2005 at 09:51

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Just Ossetians and Tajiks? Or Slavic peoples can be also considered?

Without any doubt,Ossetias are direct descendandts of them!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2005 at 13:17
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

As you know Afrasyap is the rulers of Turan in Iranian's famous Firdevsi's Shahname during the fights of Iran - Turan.

Afrasyab or more exactly Frasyak (Modern Persian Harasnak) means "frightener" in Persian, it was just a title for the frightening enemy of Iran.

Yore absolutely right Cyrus.

The Ayatkar-e Zariran : "He sent forward, to the country of Arian, Vidarafsh the sorcerer, and Wamkhvast of Hazar, with two myriads of chosen soldiers of good horsemanship. Then Jamasp, the leader of the leading men, immediately entered and said to King Vishtasp, "From Arjasp, the King of the Khyaonas, have come two messengers, than whom there is nobody more handsome in the whole country of the Khyaonas. "One of them is Vidarafsh, and the other Namkhvast of Hazar. They have with them two myriads of chosen troops. They hold a letter in their hands and say, "Let us go in before Ring Vishtasp.'" [The Sacred Books and Early Literature of the East, (New York, 1917) ]

This war had religious background. Pre-zoroastrian  Khyaonas didn't accepted the reform. The Tjurks didn't shared the same religion complex with I-E tribes. Therefore Turanians could not be an ancestors of later Turks.

As concern links between Poles and Scythians I would say that the tribal name Lach means exactly the same as aryia and abarmani. (noblesse, landowners).


It's a reconstruction of 10th Century Polish mounted warriors. Doesn't they look eastern ?



Edited by Rava
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2005 at 13:23

Where the country of Sarmatians was situated?

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--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2005 at 15:15

OK CYRUS SCYTHIANS ARE

PERSIANS, SO ARE THE TURANS,

SO ARE THE SUMERITANS,TURKS

NEVER DID EXISTED IN THE

HISTORY, ALL OF

THEM ARE PERSIANS. PERSIAN

PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR RACE, ARE

YOU GLAD NOW!!!!!

 

IM TIRED OF YOURE

BULLsh*t

WITHOUD ANY PROOFF!!

You say everything what comes up in youre mind, or youre butt!!!

 

OUT OF LIMIT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2005 at 17:07
I can't see where Cyrus indicated Scythians were Persian. They were not Persians, they were Iranians... it's a big difference.
Medians + Elimatians + Persians + Parthians + Scythians + Sarmatians = The people of Iranian plateau; therefore Iranians. Adding that I really don't see any unreasonable reasoning in that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2005 at 22:57

@Kenaney

Feel better now?

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 03:04
I always thought that those closest to the Sarmatians (and Alans) were the Ossetians.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 06:02

Originally posted by Degredado

I always thought that those closest to the Sarmatians (and Alans) were the Ossetians.

The Ossetians are descendants of the Alans mixed with Caucasian Tribes.

Alans were directly an Aryians lineage tribe (older), while the Sarmatians more north-iranians.



Edited by Rava
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 11:20
Kenaney, I suggest you to delete that post or edit it, both for the sake of yours and AE's.
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