Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Amorites
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Amorites
    Posted: 06-May-2013 at 07:40

It is said that the Amorites or Amurru were the progenitors of most of the peoples and civilizations that lived in the Fertile Crescent. They were Nomads who roamed around looking for good land to settle into and would later on separate into three groups, if my memory serves me well.

Where did the Amorites come from, do we know? And are they really the progenitors of the Canaanites, Aramaeans and Akkadians? 

 
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2013 at 09:24
It is mostly believed that they lived in the west of Mesopotamia, namely Syria, of course their name is very similar to Amardis who live in the north of Iran, modern Amol, it seems to be possible that they migrated or were forced to migrate to this region when they lost their power in the Mesopotamia.
Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2013 at 10:56
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It is mostly believed that they lived in the west of Mesopotamia, namely Syria, of course their name is very similar to Amardis who live in the north of Iran, modern Amol, it seems to be possible that they migrated or were forced to migrate to this region when they lost their power in the Mesopotamia.


Interesting. I am aware that they settled in the west of Mesopotamia and even north of Syria when they would later be know as the Aramaeans. I'm wondering however where they originally came from. Some say that they came from the Sinai region or even northern Arabia.
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Ollios View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2013 at 13:40
Originally posted by Baal Melqart


Interesting. I am aware that they settled in the west of Mesopotamia and even north of Syria when they would later be know as the Aramaeans. I'm wondering however where they originally came from. Some say that they came from the Sinai region or even northern Arabia.

I have just heard of their names

Also North Mesopotamia(Turkey)??? Harran in the map
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
Back to Top
Sharrukin View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2013 at 18:06
The only thing that can be said about them is that by the time the Sumerians and Akkadians were aware of them, they were simply located to the west of Babylonia.   Amorite meant "westerner", a designation that would have been natural for someone in the east to designate populations different from them culturally and linguistically.   The Syrian Desert is thus the earliest known place as to their origin.
Back to Top
Ollios View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2013 at 05:52
Originally posted by Sharrukin

The Syrian Desert is thus the earliest known place as to their origin.

This bibleolic source also mentions about Moabites and Edomites

Also also it support that they are previous locals in west of the Dead Sea before the Jews. They could be push to Syrian Desert by Jews. That makes more sense than Syrian Desert origin theory.
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2013 at 09:36
Og of Bashan, an Amorite, was defeated by Moses in the Exodus.
He was reported to have controlled lands from Gilead in the south to Hermon in the north, and from the Jordan river on the west to Salcah on the east side of Jordan. His capital was in Ashtaroth.


See:1.

1. Numbers 21:33-35; Deuteronomy 3:1-7.

Alleged a descendent of the Anakin-Rephaim...the Giants of old.



Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 12-May-2013 at 09:38
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2013 at 13:53


Seems like we know very little of these people in what regards their place of origin and identity. I guess we could assume that they were originally nomads who roamed the desert. Which desert, however, is something totally open to interpretation. Perhaps they came from the Syrian desert, maybe from the Mesopotamian desert, perhaps Sinai or even the desert beyond the River Jordan.

I think we can safely call them ''West Semites'' given what we know from the Akkadian/Sumerian records but the question remains... Who were the Akkadians/Sumerians calling ''Amorites'' (Amurru/Martu)? Everyone from the Sinai to the mountains of Northern Syria? If so, that would include a pretty big group of people like Canaanites, Nabataeans, Edomites, Syrians, Aramaeans..etc. I just think that we don't exactly know precisely whom these records were making a reference to.

Are there any records of Amorites where they mention that they are Amorites?

 
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2013 at 14:06
The answer I always fall back on is that associated with the Sumerian texts and references. But that's reaching way back into my early academic pursuits.

Theirs was an interpretation that anything west of the Euphrates in the deserts were Amorites or the lands of the Mar' tu. ie. The Enmerkar and the Ebla tablets. There are others to include the Akkadians, iirc.


Here's some links inclusive of mainstream definition by biblical and other scholars.


http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1422-amorites

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/21276/Amorite

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Sharrukin View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2013 at 14:12
This bibleolic source also mentions about Moabites and Edomites

Also also it support that they are previous locals in west of the Dead Sea before the Jews. They could be push to Syrian Desert by Jews. That makes more sense than Syrian Desert origin theory.
 
This only reflects an ethnic or topographical situation of a later period, i.e. the time of the Exodus.   The earliest attestation of the Amorites is near the western frontier of Sumerian civilization as far back as the Old Sumerian Period.   By about 2500 BC they established their first rulership rather peacefully at Lagash under Ur-Nanshe who was of the Tidnum tribe of Amorites.   They began to overrun the borders of the Empire of Ur by about 2030 BC breaching the "Tidnum Wall" and settled outside the cities.    In about 2200 BC the Akkadian king Sharkalisharri defeated the Amorites at their "home" near the Jebel Bishri just south of the middle Euphrates.    So, we already have contemporary attestations of Amorites in the eastern portion of the Syria before their appearance in the west.
 
According inscriptions found at Mari on the Middle Euphrates and at Aleppo, the land of Amurru was located south of the great Syrian kingdom of Qatna for an indefinite distance further south about 1800 BC.  When the Egyptians conquered Syria-Palestine,  there was a kingdom north of Phoenicia formed as a buffer state between the Egyptians and the Hitties named Amurru between the 14th and 12th centuries BC which was actually the remnant of the region known as Amurru during the Mari Age.
 
Archaeology attests to wholesale destruction of cities in Syria-Palestine by about 2100 BC.   The popular speculation is that this was the result of invasion of Amorites from the Syrian Desert.
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2013 at 20:23
King Og was said to be a giant born during the time of Noah. While it's unlikely one man lived that long, it's possible the title Og was inherited by the new ruler upon the death of his predecessor.
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Sharrukin View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2013 at 02:22
The Biblical "Conquest Narrative" lists many kings of the Amorites in the Promised Land.   One such is found in Joshua 10:5 where the kings of the Jerusalem, Hebron, Jarmuth, Lachish, and Eglon were said to have been "Amorite".
Back to Top
Hukumari View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 08-Oct-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 36 		  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2013 at 19:04
Originally posted by Sharrukin

This bibleolic source also mentions about Moabites and Edomites

Also also it support that they are previous locals in west of the Dead Sea before the Jews. They could be push to Syrian Desert by Jews. That makes more sense than Syrian Desert origin theory.
 
This only reflects an ethnic or topographical situation of a later period, i.e. the time of the Exodus.   The earliest attestation of the Amorites is near the western frontier of Sumerian civilization as far back as the Old Sumerian Period.   By about 2500 BC they established their first rulership rather peacefully at Lagash under Ur-Nanshe who was of the Tidnum tribe of Amorites.   They began to overrun the borders of the Empire of Ur by about 2030 BC breaching the "Tidnum Wall" and settled outside the cities.    In about 2200 BC the Akkadian king Sharkalisharri defeated the Amorites at their "home" near the Jebel Bishri just south of the middle Euphrates.    So, we already have contemporary attestations of Amorites in the eastern portion of the Syria before their appearance in the west.
 
According inscriptions found at Mari on the Middle Euphrates and at Aleppo, the land of Amurru was located south of the great Syrian kingdom of Qatna for an indefinite distance further south about 1800 BC.  When the Egyptians conquered Syria-Palestine,  there was a kingdom north of Phoenicia formed as a buffer state between the Egyptians and the Hitties named Amurru between the 14th and 12th centuries BC which was actually the remnant of the region known as Amurru during the Mari Age.
 
Archaeology attests to wholesale destruction of cities in Syria-Palestine by about 2100 BC.   The popular speculation is that this was the result of invasion of Amorites from the Syrian Desert.

West of the Dead Sea and only on the coast? In Jordania I found only one in Amman, others still on the Dead Sea coast.
Haplogroup R1b-V88 found so far among one Palestinian, one among Iranians.
There are many investigations and discussions about this mysterious Hg R1b-V88.
Back to Top
Hukumari View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 08-Oct-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 36 		  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2013 at 20:10

This turned out to be more mysterious and more crazy, I mean R-V88 (YCC: R1b1a).

Merneptah has written:

The princes are prostrate, saying, "Shalom!"Not one is raising his head among the Nine Bows.

Now that Tehenu (Libya) has come to ruin,
Hatti is pacified; The Canaan has been plundered into every sort of woe:
Ashkelon has been overcome;
Gezer has been captured;
Yano'am is made non-existent.
Israel is laid waste and his seed is not;
Hurru is become a widow because of Egypt.

When searching by YHRD they have only SNP of R-V88 (YCC: R1b1a) in Fezzan, Libya [Tuareg] and one match in Tunisia [Andalusian Arab] =Afro-Asiatic/Semitic.

The most surprising is this comment:

"So far, the highest frequency of mtDNA H1 - 61%- has been found among the Tuareg of the Fezzan region in Libya. MtDNA H1 encompasses an important fraction of Western European mtDNA."

More surprises: Tenehu had blue eyes and fair hair.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.