are south east asians partially indian?

Bunnag are from Thailand.

Well...I might or might not agree about yer last...having been 'engaged' er... hm.... so to speak with both.

There are also promoters of a mongoloid-caucasoid mix of ethnicities ref. the op....vice American Indians. Thru something known as 'lagodan influences'...whatever in the hell that is...



Sounds like when I puke on bad Tonto wine.

Tho...I don't argue the principal theory of 'New World Migration Model'. I remain open to variable routes.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 30-Jun-2013 at 12:59

I am one of those folks who retained every textbook I needed for nearly every course, undergrad to grad.

Edited by red clay - 20-Jun-2013 at 15:00

Originally posted by lirelou Red Clay, how could anyone who had done graduate work related to Meso America confuse the Olmec for an "early South American culture"?

 

Archaeologists divide Mesoamerican civilizational development into three major time periods: the PreClassic or Formative period extending from 1500 B.C. - A.D. 300, the Classic period extending from A.D. 300-950, and the PostClassic period extending from A.D. 950-1521.

Edited by red clay - 20-Jun-2013 at 11:50

Surya, I have 2 degrees .  My graduate work was done on Historical Ceramics, with an accent on Meso America and Neolithic cultures.  I am probably more familiar with Mayan decorative works than you could ever dream of.

The motif is a stylization, an interpretation.  You are in complete denial of any thing that runs contrary to your delusional ramblings.

Edited by red clay - 19-Jun-2013 at 10:01

We all know there are no elephants in the Americas. Isn't it surprising in Mayan country, such as this one in Copan. It may be a reminder of the elephants in India.

Phooey!  There are no Elephants here now.  However there were Elephants here, at one time.  Mastodons.  About 20 miles from where I live there were Mastodon bones found and carbon dated at approx. 5,500 years in age.  That would have put them alive at about 3500 bce.  There is no reason to believe that they were not around for an early South American culture such as the Olmec or others to have seen them.

I have several carvings that suggest the cultures here had seen both the Mastodon and an extinct form of Bison. 

 

Also, there is considerable evidence of contact with Africa.  There are several examples of elephants in Olmec art and in their "toys".  So the contact with India becomes as speculative as anything else.

 

Maybe

But trying to explain everything by ignoring the inconvenient is not criticism.

Thats skepticism. 

Originally posted by Cryptic If metal objects or forges were to be found in Australia, I could accept the theory.  I, however, cant imagine that extensive contacts occurred with out either transmitting metallurgy to the indigenous peoples, or the Indian colonists establishing metal producing capabilites in Australia.

While the discovery of such forges would have been a strong archaeological evidence, the absence of the same evidence does not disprove the stated.

What are the chances that a group of migrants( notably small in comparison to the native population) who end up down under , could discover copper deposits ?( Vedic India entered Iron age around 1800 BC, much before most of the world)

Just think about it ! They probably landed in Western Australia---mostly desert or Grassland region.
They had not come prepared for causing a revolution in Australia. They may very well have had little metal implements in their ships. To expect them to find Australia's metal deposits is fastidious.

Originally posted by Cryptic Then factor in that Indian languages were not transmitted either (usually the more technologicaly advanced culture imposes their language to varying degrees on the colonized area.

Is it that easy to spread languages? The spread of languages or major linguistic indications as you describe it can happen only as a consequence of prolonged and potent military conquest or intense religious diffusion.

The Roma Gypsies did not help in spreading Indian languages(though their speech remains commendably Romani Indo Aryan despite extraneous linguistic permeation to varying degrees). Compare the migrants to Australia with the Roma and not with conquerors. The Gypsies introduced Gun powder, Indian scientific/classical music, the Guitar and perhaps even perhaps wagon warfare(predecessor of tank warfare) under the Czech Jan Zikka ( as part of the Hussite war).

The Hittite and Mittani Vedic Aryans were more advanced than their middle eastern subjects in many respects. But despite this their language was wiped out of use ( The Assyrians between 1200 BCE and 900 BCE forcibly attacked the use of Hurrian leading to its extinction).

Mind you, they forcibly thrust themselves in their thousands into the middle East and yet their language survived only so far as their power survived.

How then can you expect a weak bunch of immigrants to introduce a new language on an entire indigenous population ?

Originally posted by Cryptic Also, lets look at what other technologies the Indians would have had, yet for some reason did not transmit to the indigenous Australians: -Agriculture -Bows -Pottery -early forms of writing

If you assume they should necessarily have started off from India with a view to colonize other lands and would have packed their bags with Indian seeds and plant specimens-- yes you have a point. But what if they had no seeds left at their arrival. What if they were half starved ? However the sudden change in food processing as comparable to Indian techniques is a related development as I have already quoted.

Bows? You mean bows and arrows? What in the world for would you carry bows in a boat? I dont think Indians practiced bow fishing.

Pottery. Sorry, I have nothing pertinent to add as regards Pottery. Point ceded.

Early forms of writing.  Ah my favorite. While no evidence of Vedic Saraswathy script ( commonly called as Indus script ) have been identified in Australia, there is undeniable evidence that Vedic people did reach Easter Islands.







It doesn't end there.

The ancient seafarers may have even reached North America. The similarities between the Vedic( mostly south Indian and Sri Lankan) and Mayan civilizations,-- astronomy,architecture, pantheon,linguistics mythology, artistic motifs and symbolism --are too bog to be dismissed as coincidences. I am particularly impressed that the Mayan calendar began with a date around 3112 B.C.,v ery close to the Hindu traditional beginning of the Kali age viz.,3102 B.C

I cannot elaborate on all the points . However I wish to share a most intriguing artistic motif in Mayan history



We all know there are no elephants in the Americas. Isn't it surprising in Mayan country, such as this one in Copan. It may be a reminder of the elephants in India.

Eminent scholar-writers like
Mackenzie, Hewitt, Tod, Pococke and
Mrs. Nuttal have collected plenty of data to show
that ancient American civilizations
were influenced by Old World civilizations. We have
to remember that the
post-Columbus history of America for 300 years was
the story of ruthless destruction
and fanatics like Bishop Diego da Landa burnt a huge
bonfire of valuable documents
and nothing but the three codices of 'Chilam Balam'
could survive the holocaust.

More serious efforts to connect the ancient American civilizations with
those of ancient India have to be made.
The Trans-Pacific contacts of the people of south-east Asia with the
people of ancient America have been
established beyond doubt. It is also a well-proven fact of history that
Indians of ancient times were great
sea-farers. In pre-Mahabharata era(3102  BCE)as well as in the subsequent period,
the kings of southern India possessed
large fleets used for trade with the Arabian and European countries
where Indian merchandise was much in
demand. India's links with south-east Asia and other far-off islands of
the Pacific Ocean are an established fact
of history. The conquest of Malaya by Rajendra Chola, the story of
Buddhagupta the Great Sailor
(Mahanavik), the religious expeditions of Indians to preach the gospel
of Buddhism in the distant lands of
Cambodia, Annam, Bali, Java, Sumatra, Borneo, Japan, Korea, Mongolia
and China are proofs of the impact
of Indian culture.


You may read the complete complete comparisons in these sites

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/hinduism-forum/183815-world-vedic-vedic-culture-maya-civilization-mexico.html

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.in/2011/05/more-connections-between-ancient-india.html


Edited by SuryaVajra - 11-Jun-2013 at 16:30

Being descended from a people who came from what today is India over four thousand years ago does not guarantee that they had any Indian culture. Do not the Andaman islanders inhabit 'India'.