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Okay, Why Arizona?

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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Okay, Why Arizona?
    Posted: 05-Mar-2013 at 13:06
Originally posted by red clay

The Tucson Artifacts are an assembly of 32 lead artifacts.  They are also called the silver belle rd. artifacts.  They consist mainly of inscribed crosses.  The rub is, the inscriptions are Latin and Paleo Hebrew and have a date on them that reads 800 AD.
 
Okay, easy one, they are a hoax, right.  Ehhhh, I'm not so sure.  Not that I suscribe to Scott Wolter's ideas on all of the things he investigates, but in this case I think I have to agree with him.  The things were retrieved from a 6.5 ft. deep layer of desert caliche.  In some cases they had to use a jackhammer to get down to the artifact layer.  Most of this activity was observed by professors and professional archaeologists, some of whom actually participated in the diggs.  In S.NJ we have a similar aggregate formation.  Having worked in Landscape Const. for 40 years, I have more than a casual exp[erience with it.  It's usually a dark pink and is like cement.   
The formation process for a layer 6 ft deep is approx. 800 to 1,000 years.  There isn't anyway you could excavate this stuff, plant artifacts, then rebury them and have it look and behave as caliche.
 
This is a link to a site   http://www.mysteriousarizona.com/index.html
 
It covers this and a few other "Mysteries" of Arizona.  This isn't the only instance of anomalous artifacts found in Arizona or archaeo. sites of anomalous age. 
 
For this thread, skip all the alternative option crap.  Treat all of these as if they were iron clad proved genuine. 
The only question remaining is,     Why Arizona? 
 
 


In that case, the most reasonable response is "Why not?" Was Arizona off limits?

Arizona is close to South America and it's Indan/Mezo cultures, but more importantly it is close to ocean access via the gulf.  Where would we normally expect to find artifacts from elsewhere?  Wyoming orsome other landlocked region?

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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2013 at 13:30
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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2013 at 12:59
for your reading enjoyment -- the biography of Byron Cummings (archaeologist of Arizona). he had authenticated the "crosses" along with a host of other onsite VIP's

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0816524777/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A21I6SH8GPCODY
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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2013 at 16:15
"Thomas Bent’s 1964 book on the crosses being published for the first time that is an invaluable primary resource that removes all doubt"


from an email I received from a very close source to this issue. I've also been told that the research from the "America unearthed" series is moving forward and will be published. I think they are waiting for ALL of the engineering to be turned in. this includes independent testing for backup.

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2013 at 16:45

I wish Wolter would do more on the Megalithic sites in the Eastern US.  He investigated Mystery Hill, but that was it.  There are hundreds of other sites from Maine to Florida.  Burnt Hill, in Western Mass., is a much better example than Mystery Hill.  It was never occupied and is pretty much as found at time of contact.  It's isolated and a heck of a climb to get to.  I made the climb once, but pooped out before I reached the summit.  However, the entire hill has evidence of extreme antiquity.  But it's just one of many.

                              http://www.neara.org/
 
The above is a link to the New England Antiquity Research Association
 
 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2013 at 00:21
I need full text on one of them.The one with text with uprise arrow sign.
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  Quote Mhenkel66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2016 at 20:46
Two possible reasons for the artifacts. Christians trying to relate to natives. The other the is the French fighting with Mexicans. The Lorraine cross simple was used by others than just the temple knights. Just like the swastika. Ruins in Crete from 2000 years ago has same symbol. Muslims ran the Christians out of country, so they came to America's. The so called dinosaur was likely a desert reptile drawing. 
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2016 at 06:59

quote "The CoL was once a symbol of Papal authority, used in the early church"
(and quote "
Two possible reasons for the artifacts. Christians trying to relate to natives.")

Hope it is not another papal fake/fraud. The papal authority is similar to some other things in my ebook http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=104&ChapterID=1565 . Must check who was the pope/emperor in 800? (Leo 3, Charlemagne, Irene or Nicephorus 1, a Spanish one?).

quote "There are some who connect the Romans use of Lead to cook with,to the Fall of the Empire.
Negative effects of even small amounts of Lead in food were, reduced learning abilities, damage to the parts of the brain that control urges, compulsions.  In extreme cases, and especially where the mother was also consumming containated food, they were producing "Idiots".  This was only the elite who would have been effected.  The common folk couldn't afford Lead pots, so they weren't effected as much, if at all.
{It's been suggested that both Nero and Caligula were the products of Lead contamination in their food.}"

In present times its the other way around with all the less fortinate people being poisoned by bpa/bishphenol in linnings etc, & lead in water sitting in tap fittings (i was).

Sorry if they are slightly off-topic. I can't offer any much of value yet without knowing more, and unless research/study.
Initial thoughts included Los Lunas Decalogue stone. Area 51. Othere (Alfred the Great). Fomenko. Vikings in Mexican pictures (SC Compton 'Exodus Lost').


"25000"yrs humanfootprintsMexico?,
19000yo flintknife Virginia from france, monteVerde15kya,
"11xxx"bc 4calendars coincide
"9000/8000"yrs atlantis
2250bc Chinese
"1739-1728/1701-1690" Hesperus / 1700bc Woden-lithi;
[1400s bc Atlantis]
"1040-999" Votan / 1000/900bc solomon,
jehu, Homer 900/ca800bc,
(607bc Necho ~) "600bc Nephi"
hecataeus (500), Hellanicus ca470bc, herodotus(450/ca440bc),
"58/55 bc Nephite Hagoth"
151ad Ptolemy map,
before500ce/"500"/5thcent ad Chinese/HuiShen (fusang) ; (Barinthus)
(484-577 Brendan(7yrs, 40days, 12isls))
(15-yrs-after-Brendan Maeldune(3yrs,33isls))
"800 ad Tucson artefacts"
(870 Gunnbjorn)
(871-901 Othere)
 982 Eric Thorvaldson the Red
1003 Leif Ericson
1007 Thorvald Ericson
1010/1016 Thorfinn Karlseffni
1121 Eric Gnupson "=Quetzalcoatl"
1171 Madoc
{1310/1311ad : mandingo
1311ad Abu-Bakari II fleet of Mali?}
1355 Paul Knutson
1382 Kensington runic
1395 Henry Sinclair / Zeno, 1421 Chinese ZhengHe
1462:portuguese
1473/6 {didrikPining, hanspothorst, cortreal, scolvus, alvaroMartins}
1477 Cortereal
1480 Túpac Inca Yupanqui (9mo,2isls)?
1481 Bristol
, benicasa(1482), 1492 Columbus
Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494
1497 Cabot
1497-1503 Vespucci
(the so-called Vinland Map of the 15th century
Map of Cantino dated of 1502, piri reis(1511),
Hadji Ahmed Portolan Map 1519,
1519 Cortez
1528 Pizarro
1534 French Cartier, ortelius/typusorbisterrarum(1592), 1584-1618 / 1615 Sir Walter Raleigh, buache(1737),
1947/1969/1970 Heyerdahl.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 17-May-2016 at 07:08
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2016 at 13:11
The trick is, they aren't a hoax. Many debunkers ignore the fact that the items were excavated by professionals from the Uni of Arizona and other science based folks.
Which is probably why they have been ignored. To address it would be "uncomfortable".
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2016 at 19:13

Arizona was certainly not off limits.

The socalled Ruskamp signs  (ancient Chinese signs )may have been brought up before ( by Red Clay?). Anyway, they are to be  found in Arizona ( and in New Mexico and California).  

Its another topic of course . The best info comes from Ruskamp' s own papers ( to be found on the net) but for a first read this link will do:




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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2016 at 00:14
someone deleted my post?

It  seems Calalus is combination of Hebrew word for "wasteland" and California (which Arizona was once part of).

repost of missing post:

Haven't been able to research this properly yet, but had a quick re-/read of the wikipedia page on Tucson artefacts and from the info there it seems fairly/pretty likely to me that they were made by the young man/boy Odohui mentioned at the end (which also may agree with the comment that made by a mentally incompetent person).
(I am not debunking them, any one that knows me knows how i investigate things pretty openly and try to objectively see/find the truth. I like investigaing mysteries esp ones orthodox seem to be unfairly/suspiciously against.)
The date is actually 780/790/800/Charlemagne to 900/Alfred not just 800.
The Toltec bit is interesting.
I've no idea yet where Calalus was got from ("wasteland"? California? Aztlan? Coelus/Caelus? Halal? Carib? Canaan? Alalu(s)? Calaus? Claus? Calculus? Chalcis? Chalyb? chalc? halleluyah? Kala?); but at least now i know where Superman came from (joke).
The nearby site Picture Rocks sounds more interesting to find out more about.
Tucson sounds like Tuscan but i assume not related (i haven't checked where Tucson name came from).

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2016 at 10:02
I live an hour east of Tucson so when I have time I'll read all of these posts. Are these artifacts on display in Tucson? Seems out of the way to find European artifacts in our Southwest from 800 AD, but I'm open. Sara Winmemuca in History of the Paiutes talks about a race of white people her ancestors encountered many generations ago. Spanish or pre columbian, who knows????
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2016 at 11:49
I don't believe the artifacts are on public display, however since Wolters investigation they might be.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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