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The pope resigns

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The pope resigns
    Posted: 12-Feb-2013 at 17:54

Looks like somebody up there doesn't approve of old Pope Palpatine resigning. The Vatican was struck by lightning not once, but twice:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-bolt-hit-vatican-not-1705156
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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2013 at 20:38
Didn't "Gods" appointed on Earth cover up crimes of child abuse by his fellow christian clergy?


I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2013 at 21:17
maybe god just wants charge ahmadinejad halo of light !!! :D:D:D
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2013 at 11:11
Personally, I think the Catholic Church needs serious modernisation: if priests were allowed to marry there would be fewer cases of choirboys being molested. A priest or minister cannot provide meaningful counsel to parishioners with family problems unless he also has a wife


Edited by Nick1986 - 13-Feb-2013 at 11:11
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2013 at 20:47
Originally posted by Nick1986

Personally, I think the Catholic Church needs serious modernisation: if priests were allowed to marry there would be fewer cases of choirboys being molested. A priest or minister cannot provide meaningful counsel to parishioners with family problems unless he also has a wife



I agree with you 100%. Restricting someone into lifetime celibacy is definitely not healthy and the catholic church needs to follow the example of other churches such as the Lutherans and Protestants concerning this matter.


Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the papacy go away. I don't think it has ''on average'' brought much good to the world and the money spent on their lavish ceremonies and pure gold scepters could definitely be invested somewhere else. Even from a christological point of view, Jesus taught that people should have very little possessions and work on fulfilling the needs of others so I don't see how the opulence of the Vatican fits within this teaching. This goes without mentioning that papacy in itself is not exactly supported by the gospels to begin with...



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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 09:13
You're right Baal. The church's wealth would be put to much better use if it was used to help the poor instead of buying gold shoes and silk robes for the bishops
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  Quote Salah ad-Din Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 15:22
I'm not even Catholic, but I find the tone of this thread's title very offensive.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 18:36
Where's your sense of humor Salah? Nevertheless I have changed the title just to please you
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  Quote Salah ad-Din Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 19:56
Originally posted by Nick1986

Where's your sense of humor Salah?
 
I have a very well developed sense of humor, but I don't believe in mocking, even in the most light-hearted of jests, a figure of importance in someone else's religion.
 
Originally posted by Nick1986

Nevertheless I have changed the title just to please you
 
It looks much better now, thank you:)
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 22:10
Actually, Catholic priests in the Eastern Rite churches are allowed to be married. Here I speak of the Maronite, Coptic, Syrian Christians, etc. The trick is that if they are already married when they attend the seminary, then they are not required to take a vow of celibacy.

The Eastern churches prefer married clergy. The normal way of selecting priests is that when a priest in a certain parish dies, the parish council meets to consider candidates to replace him. These candidates are generall married men of position and respect. The council then approaches the candidates to see which ones would be willing to attend seminary and become priests, and in the end they make their choice. The parish itself pay for the training of the priest.

That per my 9th year religion teacher, Brother George, a Christian Brother who despite his Scottish burr was a Syrian Catholic whose brother was a bishop.  

Those single men who attend seminary are expected to take vows of celibacy. 
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 05:35
Originally posted by lirelou

 a Syrian Catholic whose brother was a bishop.  

Much as i despise religion, i cant help but respect this mans faith, how hard must it be for him to be Christian in Syria.

Anyway, thank you for that snippet (genuinely) I had no idea.

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 09:41
Originally posted by Salah ad-Din

I'm not even Catholic, but I find the tone of this thread's title very offensive.
 
 
Was raised that way courtesy of the ma and nana. But am used to the catholic haters.....lots of resemblance there to anti-semites in my opinion. Btw.... Humor ain't got a damn thing to do with the 1.196 billion who might not like the analogy.
 
Just imagine...substitute the Pope with Obama...only in this case the caption would read:
 
 ''And now, my beauties, something with poison in it, I think. With poison in it, but attractive to the eye, and soothing to the smell. ''
 
 
''Auntie Em! Auntie Em! Come back! I'll give you Auntie Em, my pretty! Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh!''

 

 
 
Holy shit.....the hue and cry would be enormous eh.LOL No humor there for his sycophants eh.LOLLOL
 
 
quotes cc: The Wizard Of OZ
FL Baum
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 09:59
Originally posted by Nick1986

Where's your sense of humor Salah? Nevertheless I have changed the title just to please you
 
 
"We are leaking humor at an alarming rate".  Akoluthos.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 14:01
That's all right.  The influx of hypocrisy more than makes up for it.
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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 14:11
Is it suggested than that the Catholic church is not guilty of a few incidents  of naughtiness?
And as such are above criticism?

I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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  Quote Salah ad-Din Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 15:05
Originally posted by red clay

Originally posted by Nick1986

Where's your sense of humor Salah? Nevertheless I have changed the title just to please you
 
 
"We are leaking humor at an alarming rate".  Akoluthos.
 
 
 
If the initial title of this thread is humor, then I should truly hope I'm leaking itSmile
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2013 at 23:00
Originally posted by Azita

Is it suggested than that the Catholic church is not guilty of a few incidents  of naughtiness?
And as such are above criticism?

 
 
Oh it's both more then just suggested in the historical record past and present. The allegations and facts are there for analysis. And even moral judgement not to mention legal. And as such....subject to criticism.
 
 
However the fact also remains that in keeping with the Coc. That same criticism is expected to be objective and in avoidance of rudeness and deliberate attempts at offending the sensibilities of not only the subject in question. But the membership, who might be offended at large, as well.
 
 
 
Why.... should be obvious.
 
 
 
 
There is a great deal of difference between honest attempts to analyze and criticism reference performance versus attempted characterization that's offensive; which often occurs as a result of attempts at what's termed sardonic or cynical humor. What makes it complex, is the inborn desire, or lack thereof, and legal acknowledgement and recognition of the actual purpose of the 1st Amendment or equivalent expressions of free speech. Versus deliberate or even possibly bigoted mis-representations, that can cause harm. And hence can be objected to as libel or slander and or offensive to a portion of the body at large no matter the minority-majority status. Even on a history forum.
Hate speech, while defendable under free speech, is still hate speech..... for example. And the associated consequences recognisable.
 
 
 
 
Iowa. in the case of a forum it's left to the staff to determine this. Assuming their attempting an honest effort to consistently enforce it. There will be always differences in how they arrive at that due to the subjective nature of their enforcement authority and their backgrounds and experience and even inherent bigotries involved. Ntl. it's expected.... that they remain as consistently objective, as possible, on the good ones. And avoid those expressions of inherent bigotries and postures and or needless attempts at characterizations that might be deliberately offensive and might or possibly be recognised by others. Staff and member at large alike. Not to say we all dont 'slip' because we do. But that's a desired exception not a pattern.
 
 
Why?
 
 
Makes for good order and a consistent non contentious environment.
 
 
And that provides for not just a objective environment but a historically accurate one as well. Not to mention one that promotes civility in discourse.
 
 
 
 
 
In the case above, I view the original intent of the thread as cynical humor. Because frankly I cant prove otherwise. If I could...I would then comment appropriately. But.... if I accept the proposition I have just announced then I also have accepted the acknowledgement of the 1st Amd which protects cynical humor. And that no violation of our Coc occurred at this point.
 
 
 
When and where and how, I might have found it in violation of the coc, is another matter.
 
 
 
 
But lets take you and I for a final example. Lets presume, in a hypothetical sense, there has been an undercurrent of expressed or even verbalized propositions you and I are anti-Semites or anti-religious. Ie. Jew haters and Catholic bashers etc....iow. pick you complaint. Doesn't matter. Tho those will suffice. Lets even say that complaints have been made; that not only are we anti-Semites etc. but that a preponderance of our posts have been identified by others, as being anti-nationalistic and covertly or overtly bombastic and inflammatory in nature, as well.
 
 
What is our redress?
 
 
The answer?
 
 
Again.
 
 
Obvious.
 
 
Individually, first and foremost; having been advised of the complaints (presumably by staff or other members), in house or out, we would probably have toned down that which has proven offensive to others and avoided doing it again. Or at least not deliberately doing it again. Or we would have learned how to better express ourselves in such a manner to avoid interpretations and potential conflict.
 
 
 
If not?
 
 
 
Then presuming the standard actions of a history blog-forum...... the staff would be required (Assuming their not supporters of the same behavior and capable of  what's recognized as consistent enforcement on that blog-forum) to intervene.
 
 
The BL?
 
Up top.
 
I've told you before...criticise all you like. But remain wary of the verbalization and the effect it might have on those who would disagree. And do it as per the Coc. More importantly when they ask and or expect it, avoid the verbalizations that are offensive. We would hope that you or I do this out of respect for the other's experience or personal convictions that you or I might in turn would desire. Not because we endorse censorship. If you or anyone else is capable..there is indeed a way to do this.
If you want the opposite...an environment where consideration of others is of no importance and flaming and bashing and un-necessary ridicule is in vogue. And or constant rudeness and hyperbolic ranting in defense of an agenda is expected and encouraged...go elsewhere.
 
 
The only requirement here, as far as I'm concerned as a Mod and member, is..... that you and I etc. think...before engaging mouth or key stroke.Wink
 
 
Because like it or not there is no totality of democracy in representation on a history blog-forum.
 
 
And if you or anyone else needs a refresher on that then see this:
 
 
 
Because while it addressed a different issuse...it also inherently addresses the actions of individual members that required it in the first place. Which is to say.....remember the Coc.
 
 
And....again.....think...before engaging mouth or key stroke. I have to do this often myself.LOL
 
It will not only enhance the aforementioned civility in discourse and debate but it will also enhance the aforementioned objectivty of the accurate historical analysis and reporting as well.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 15-Feb-2013 at 23:10
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2013 at 10:19
Originally posted by Azita

Is it suggested than that the Catholic church is not guilty of a few incidents  of naughtiness?
And as such are above criticism?


Azita, it's only a few perverts who are responsible for the abuse, but the problem lies with later rules introduced by Pope Gregory. If celibacy was abolished (or made optional), the modern church would no longer suffer from a shortage of clergymen (and would be able to perform stricter background checks) as the sons of current priests could be sent to Rome for training
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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2013 at 12:20
Nick,
I must not get started on Religion, especially Catholicism.
Will just say that, the multiple world wide cases of child abuse by priests,  is far from the only misery the Church has brought the world.

Azita
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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2013 at 14:03
I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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