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Allied war crimes during World War II

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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Allied war crimes during World War II
    Posted: 09-Feb-2014 at 19:26
Originally posted by beorna

Originally posted by toyomotor

Originally posted by LeDogg

I don't see allies commiting any war crimes with the exeption of soviets (who i dont consider being ally at all)
 
Well......
 
1. You have a "head in the sand" attitude. Of course there were war crimes committed by the Allies during WWII, the Brits, Yanks, Aussies, who ever you like. But perhaps they weren't on the same scale of brutality as those committed by some others;
 
2. Sorry mate, the Soviets were allies during WWII, like it or not. That the Soviet troops were responsible for atrocities against the German Civilian population is undeniable.

good to see some rationality. The question here is simply, did the allies commit war crimes. The answer is, yes! The question is not, were the allies as bad as the Nazis or the Germans. Such question can only be answered with, no!
Precisely, and, not confining ourselves to WWII for a moment, one could imagine why we were so outraged by the My Lai Massacre-but apparently the US Judicial System didn't see it that way. What did Calley serve, three years wasn't it?

Edited by toyomotor - 09-Feb-2014 at 19:26
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  Quote LeDogg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2014 at 05:31
It feels like arguing with a brick wall here. Non the less, we live in democracy right now and everyone has right to their opinion.
I still claim however that allied dorces werent responcible for any war crimes at the highest level of government as Germans were. Only Germans got charged by bombing city was because that particular city (sorry cant recall name right now) had already surrendered, but Hitler ordered to bomb it to the ground as a show of force. Carpet bombing during that time was widely used tactic in war by either side since there wasnt any reliable accurate bombing available like we got today and even with modern bombs they do miss at times.
Why did Great Britain declare war  to Nazi Germany along side with France? Because they had to. Nazi Germany invaded Poland who was Allied with GB and France and they had treaties for these situations. You declare war to 1 of them means u declare war to all. Nazi's however ignored any treaties others or their own. Treaty with Soviet union for instance.
Now speaking of war crimes general on either side, then ofcource there were criminals in allied side as well. For instance executing POW's or looting, raping etc. These war crimes however were commited by individuals in the army and were punished. Most common punishment was execution.
Even at Red army. At the beginning yes, these crimes were not punished at all because hatred for Germans ran very deep. But at some point Order came from highest level to stop these crimes and any1 caught doing it was executed as punishment.
Nazi war crimes came from high up however and were government policy. There were actual laws that ordered to do harm to Jews or other minorities.
Anyway i guess if you really want to find flaws and looking through all that mess that WW2 was. (After all most allied antions hated Germans with a passion.) You are bound to find some, but nothing as big as Nazi crimes.
In the end we get to the point wer you ask yourself. Who was the bad guy, the agressor and who wasn't. Would you want to live in free world or under Nazi dictatorship.
In my opinion blaming the allies here only dishonors the heroes thanks to who we live in a free world today.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2014 at 07:04
Originally posted by LeDogg

It feels like arguing with a brick wall here. Non the less, we live in democracy right now and everyone has right to their opinion.

That is a sentence I would subscribe.Smile

Originally posted by LeDogg

I still claim however that allied dorces werent responcible for any war crimes at the highest level of government as Germans were.

On the government level you are widely correct. neither the US nor the UK had ever planned war crimes or crimes in the same style as the Nazis. But they committed war crimes as well, e.g. the London cages. And I continue my statement about the allied bombing. It was first of all directed against civilians. This is against the intention of the HC. And the last great crime against humanity was the decision to expell millions of germans from their lands.

Originally posted by LeDogg

Only Germans got charged by bombing city was because that particular city (sorry cant recall name right now) had already surrendered, but Hitler ordered to bomb it to the ground as a show of force.

You probably mix Rotterdam with Belgrade. Löhr was executed for the air raid against Belgrade. But it was Löhr who ordered that the raid should only be directed against industrial and military target and the governental areas. The city that was bombed after the surrender was Rotterdam. germans tried to stop the bombers, but one group could not get informed.

Originally posted by LeDogg

Carpet bombing during that time was widely used tactic in war by either side since there wasnt any reliable accurate bombing available like we got today and even with modern bombs they do miss at times.

I already said, that there were technical problems to hit exact the target. On the other side germans used e.g. Knickebein to be as exact as possible, but the British invented an defense against it, so that Germans dropped there bombs on the wrong areas. But as i said above, I think carpet bombing is morally condemnable in any case. The difference is just, are fair targets the goal or civilians.

Originally posted by LeDogg

Why did Great Britain declare war  to Nazi Germany along side with France? Because they had to. Nazi Germany invaded Poland who was Allied with GB and France and they had treaties for these situations. You declare war to 1 of them means u declare war to all. Nazi's however ignored any treaties others or their own. Treaty with Soviet union for instance.

Are you American? How many treaties has your country broken? But I agree, that it was germany's fault that there was a WWII. my point was just your statement as seen above.

Originally posted by LeDogg

Now speaking of war crimes general on either side, then ofcource there were criminals in allied side as well. For instance executing POW's or looting, raping etc. These war crimes however were commited by individuals in the army and were punished. Most common punishment was execution.

The US army offered ice cream, if GI's would not murder Japanese POWs. GI's murdered in great style japanese solders, mutilated and pissed on them. They even took trophies. US soldiers in great style murdered German soldiers, especially if they were paratroopers or Waffen-SS, even boys. Nobody of it was sentenced or even prosecuted.

Originally posted by LeDogg

Even at Red army. At the beginning yes, these crimes were not punished at all because hatred for Germans ran very deep. But at some point Order came from highest level to stop these crimes and any1 caught doing it was executed as punishment.

It was punished theoretically at the end of the war, because the Soviets feared that the discipline of their troops will break down.

Originally posted by LeDogg

Nazi war crimes came from high up however and were government policy. There were actual laws that ordered to do harm to Jews or other minorities.

That is not disputed.

Originally posted by LeDogg

Anyway i guess if you really want to find flaws and looking through all that mess that WW2 was. (After all most allied antions hated Germans with a passion.) You are bound to find some, but nothing as big as Nazi crimes.

nothing as big is not nothing!

Originally posted by LeDogg

In the end we get to the point wer you ask yourself. Who was the bad guy, the agressor and who wasn't. Would you want to live in free world or under Nazi dictatorship.
In my opinion blaming the allies here only dishonors the heroes thanks to who we live in a free world today.

I said it already, there is no doubt, that the nazis were criminals and that germans committed under their rule huge crimes. But your black and white scheme is naive. The pacific war e.g. was a conflict about who rules Asia, the british, the French, the Americans or the Japanese. During the American-Philippin war about a million Philippinos died. The Americans committed a lot of massacres and other crimes. Are these your good colonial masters? After the japanese were defeated in WWII, the UK used japanese troops to squell down the Vietnamese liberation army, which fought against japan and Vichy-France during WWII. The US granted amnesty to most members of the unit 731 and the British gave asylum to an ss-division, which murdered jews and committed during the anti-partisan warfare great crimes, e.g. the massacre of Huta Pieniacka, were maybe up to 1200 people were murdered, just because they thought these men were good anti-communists.
That you freed the world from the Nazis is for sure a good thing, but it is no justification for war crimes and e.g. your ally Poland was left under Soviet rule and your politicians didn't care, that the soviets fought a war against the AK till the end of the 40th. As I mentioned above, countries who fought for their independence were forced again under european colonialism. And maybe another thing. You speak about heroes who fought for a free world. The US Army was racist and the apartheid in the USA lasted till the late 60th. So it seems your ideas of a free world are really naive.

Germans are happy and thankful, that the Nazi era is over. Germans have not a single feeling of revange against their former enemies. But that doesn't mean one has to close one's eyes concerning war crimes, not in WWII and as well not today.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2014 at 08:01
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-horror-of-d-day-a-new-openness-to-discussing-allied-war-crimes-in-wwii-a-692037.html

http://books.google.de/books?id=x1dQwuiEU3UC&pg=PA206&lpg=PA206&dq=%22japanese+pows%22+american+hands&source=web&ots=Jy7xIG7C1S&sig=J2I027gBjV9cqjD7t3h1-FiQW3o&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22japanese%20pows%22%20american%20hands&f=false

http://www.homeworkmarket.com/sites/default/files/q1/11/04/article.fergusonbattlefield_culture.pdf

http://personal.psu.edu/faculty/c/a/caw43/behrendwriting/Weingartner,%20James%20J..pdf

........
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2014 at 19:17
Well said General.
 
 
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2014 at 23:12
Toyomotor, First, Calley was pardoned, an act within the power of the executive, not the judiciary. Second, how many years did the perpetrators of the Hue Massacres serve? That's right, they weren't even tried. They were carrying out orders.

Also, one helicopter pilot received the Medal of Honor for trying to stop the My Lai massacre.

Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 00:24
Originally posted by lirelou

Toyomotor, First, Calley was pardoned, an act within the power of the executive, not the judiciary. Second, how many years did the perpetrators of the Hue Massacres serve? That's right, they weren't even tried. They were carrying out orders.

Also, one helicopter pilot received the Medal of Honor for trying to stop the My Lai massacre.

 
Firstly, Calley should never have been pardoned. In his case the Executive was wrong!
 
The Hue Massacre, carried out by the Viet Cong/NVA, was an atrocity which can not be excused by the fact that they were carrying out orders. Every soldier knows that, in the event of an order being patently unlawful, they have the right to refuse to carry out that order. They should have been tried for committing a War Crime.
 
I thought the Nuremburg Defence went out the window in 1946!
 
Yes, I know about the helicopter pilot getting the CMH, and it was well deserved. That man deserves to have his name in lights on every US Base.
 
 


Edited by toyomotor - 11-Feb-2014 at 00:25
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 08:59
Still trying to justify what your folks did in WWII, by saying "they did it too".  "Your troops murdered innocent prisoners of war" etc. etc. eh Beorna.
 
My Dad is living with us now, He's 93.  His amphib squadron was at Leyte and Sabu Island, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and a dozen small landings.  I read your post to him, I'll spare you his word for word response, needless it wasn't very flattering. 
 
In part-  "The Japs were told to fight and die, taking as many of us with them as possible.  They continued to do this even after it was apparent that they had no chance of winning, or even getting a truce.  It was blind hatred of the "white devils".  To them it was a racial war.  As far as our reactions, that's fine.  It played right into the hands of the Allies and they became the "Yellow menace".
The Japanese Garrison on Iwo was almost 30,000.  There were less than 200 prisoners taken.  Were some killed trying to surrender? Yes!  When you see men killed by an explosive charge strapped to the body of an enemy who is supposedly surrendering, your attitude changes and your own survival instincts kick in, "if it moves, kill it". That coupled with the fact that every dugout, tunnel and what have you had to be blasted clean, accounted for the low prisoner count.
Anger. Anger over having our lives disrupted, anger over being away from our wives and familys.  Anger over the enemy's refusal to quit when there was no hope.  Anger over the atrocities the Japanese committed against those whose lands they had captured, and the Allied prisoners they had taken".
"You who were not there, at that time, cannot judge.  You cannot judge on the values and principals held today".
" Some day I will be judged.  I have several hundred souls on my tab.  I feel no sorrow, no guilt, I sleep well".  Red Clay SR, PO. 1stC, USCG.  LST 758.
 
 
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 10:25
Originally posted by red clay

Still trying to justify what your folks did in WWII, by saying "they did it too".  "Your troops murdered innocent prisoners of war" etc. etc. eh Beorna.


I would expect such offense by a troll but not by a mod!Angry Where did I ever justify a single murder by germans? Where? Did you read my links, did you ever care about literature and sources, even presented by scientists from former allied countries? I do not expect, that you read German literature, but at least your own scientists?
Do I say german crimes were justified? Did I ever say allied crimes are greater or as great as Germans? Did I ever said allied soldiers are more evil than Germans? The answer is simple, NO, I did not. BUt you seem to close your eyes, just because you don't want to see.
 
Originally posted by red clay

My Dad is living with us now, He's 93.  His amphib squadron was at Leyte and Sabu Island, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and a dozen small landings.  I read your post to him, I'll spare you his word for word response, needless it wasn't very flattering.
I don't know your dad and therefor can't say anything about him. There is a lot of research which verifies allied war crimes in geat style. But maybe all other GI's in such interviews lie. Maybe a lot of war diaries simply lie.Confused
 
Originally posted by red clay

In part-  "The Japs were told to fight and die, taking as many of us with them as possible.  They continued to do this even after it was apparent that they had no chance of winning, or even getting a truce.  It was blind hatred of the "white devils".  To them it was a racial war.  As far as our reactions, that's fine.  It played right into the hands of the Allies and they became the "Yellow menace".
The Japanese Garrison on Iwo was almost 30,000.  There were less than 200 prisoners taken.  Were some killed trying to surrender? Yes!  When you see men killed by an explosive charge strapped to the body of an enemy who is supposedly surrendering, your attitude changes and your own survival instincts kick in, "if it moves, kill it". That coupled with the fact that every dugout, tunnel and what have you had to be blasted clean, accounted for the low prisoner count.
Anger. Anger over having our lives disrupted, anger over being away from our wives and familys.  Anger over the enemy's refusal to quit when there was no hope.  Anger over the atrocities the Japanese committed against those whose lands they had captured, and the Allied prisoners they had taken".

Read my link Fergusson and if you read with open eyes you can read exactly about it!

PS: Japs is a racist expression!

Originally posted by red clay

"You who were not there, at that time, cannot judge.  You cannot judge on the values and principals held today".
" Some day I will be judged.  I have several hundred souls on my tab.  I feel no sorrow, no guilt, I sleep well".  Red Clay SR, PO. 1stC, USCG.  LST 758.
 

That is nonsense. I cannot judge? It seems people like you have no problem to judge germans. But I can tell you I do not judge about these people. I am even more interested in the reasons why the commit crimes instead of blaming them just to blame them. I am interested why germans murdered, why Russians murdered, why Americans, britons and others murdered and if not, why not. If we ignore crimes like you, we are condemned to repeat these mistakes. The USA have never learned. That's why they committed war crimes in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and now in Afghanistan. That's why some still mutilate Taliban and still take trophies.

Originally posted by red clay

Red Clay SR, PO. 1stC, USCG.  LST 758.
And?
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 13:15
Can you hear the empty echo?  I can.
 
 
All of my post that's in quotations are a direct quote from my Dad, as spoken to me last eve.  I suggest you re read the entire post paying attention to the quotations.  And no, you can't judge him, he was there, you were not.
 
And as for him lieing, Dad says he forgives you.  "I've been hearing revisionist and apologist BS for years.  The truth began to be lost the day the surrenders were signed, and we all had to be "friends" again.  As those of us who were there got older, it may be that many had difficulty dealing with the reality of what we had been through.  I did not.  We didn't start the damn thing, but as overseas duty in the Coast Guard was all volunteer, we chose to be there, and all we wanted to do was finish the job and go home".
 
 
 
     


Edited by red clay - 11-Feb-2014 at 13:42
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 15:38
Originally posted by beorna


That is nonsense. I cannot judge? It seems people like you have no problem to judge germans. But I can tell you I do not judge about these people. I am even more interested in the reasons why the commit crimes instead of blaming them just to blame them. I am interested why germans murdered, why Russians murdered, why Americans, britons and others murdered and if not, why not. If we ignore crimes like you, we are condemned to repeat these mistakes. The USA have never learned. That's why they committed war crimes in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and now in Afghanistan. That's why some still mutilate Taliban and still take trophies.


You're rebuttal is to feel sorry for the Taliban?  Terrorists who murder women and children? 

What planet are you from?
  Ermm

THIS is why we don't have discussions on this forum.  Too many people who nothing about history but want to comment on it and criticize it.


Edited by Mountain Man - 11-Feb-2014 at 15:40
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 15:40
Originally posted by red clay

All of my post that's in quotations are a direct quote from my Dad, as spoken to me last eve.  I suggest you re read the entire post paying attention to the quotations.  And no, you can't judge him, he was there, you were not.

As I said, I have no intention to judge him. But if only those who were there can write the history, we would have a lot of wrong history. It would be at all the question, if we need historians, if only those who were there have the right to speak. But in this case your claim, that those who were there tell the truth, which is different to my quotes here. Historians have discovered war diaries, have made interviews and all those give a completely different picture than those of a good herois GI.
 
Originally posted by red clay

And as for him lieing, Dad says he forgives you. 
I can*t see that there is something one has to forgive me.

Originally posted by red clay

"I've been hearing revisionist and apologist BS for years.

The same platitudes, if one has no arguments and does not want to accept fact. Revisionist, apologist and at least nazi. Is that your only argument. I can see that you mention one of my links. I can post some more literature about it.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 15:54
Originally posted by Mountain Man

Originally posted by beorna


That is nonsense. I cannot judge? It seems people like you have no problem to judge germans. But I can tell you I do not judge about these people. I am even more interested in the reasons why the commit crimes instead of blaming them just to blame them. I am interested why germans murdered, why Russians murdered, why Americans, britons and others murdered and if not, why not. If we ignore crimes like you, we are condemned to repeat these mistakes. The USA have never learned. That's why they committed war crimes in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and now in Afghanistan. That's why some still mutilate Taliban and still take trophies.


You're rebuttal is to feel sorry for the Taliban?  Terrorists who murder women and children? 

What planet are you from?
  Ermm

THIS is why we don't have discussions on this forum.  Too many people who nothing about history but want to comment on it and criticize it.

Do you know what made the nazis so terrible? They thought they are the chosen race, their enemies bugs and that is was not bad to destroy these bugs. The dehumanisation of the enemy caused so many crimes.
I neither like the taliban nor do I like Al Qaeda. But it seems you not even know the difference. It were the Mujjahedin you supported during the Soviet-Afghan war, who are today the Taliban. At those days they were called freedom fighters. But now you love to call them terrorist, just because they are on the other side. Your state has as well no problem to work together with states who support terrorism, you even sended supposed taliban or Al Qaeda members to Syria to get tortured.
The taliban are a bunch of islamistic fanatics, the Al Qaeda members are cowards. But that doesn't give the USA or other states the right to humiliate their bodys, that doesn't give the USA the right to treat them like they do it in Guantanamo, to torture them or if we look to Abu Ghraid in Iraq to mistreat them sexually. The same racist attitude Americans had against the japanese, do they seem to have as well against Muslims.
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 22:45
Haven't we gone way off thread here, again?
 
The title of the thread is
 

Allied war crimes during World War II

Nothing to do with Taliban, Japanese or Germans.

We must accept that War Crimes were committed by all participants in WWII, but that in the case of the allies, Russians excepted, the level of atrocities was much much less.
 
Even the Russians did not compete with the level of atrocities committed by Germany.
 
Unless anyone can realistically dispute that, I think the thread is finished.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2014 at 06:57
Originally posted by toyomotor

Haven't we gone way off thread here, again?
 
The title of the thread is
 

Allied war crimes during World War II

Nothing to do with Taliban, Japanese or Germans.


You are boath, right and wrong. Of course you're right, that this is about WWII. But you are wrong if you see no connection. In all those wars the crimes are based on a dehumanisation of the enemy, based on a shift of the frame of refenrence

Originally posted by toyomotor

We must accept that War Crimes were committed by all participants in WWII, but that in the case of the allies, Russians excepted, the level of atrocities was much much less.

I would widely agree here.
 
Originally posted by toyomotor

Even the Russians did not compete with the level of atrocities committed by Germany.

The numbers are different, not so much the kind of brutality and of course the industrialisation of genocide was something new and unique german in WWII.

Originally posted by toyomotor


Unless anyone can realistically dispute that, I think the thread is finished.

This is not my first discussion about it and even not the first with red clay or mountain man. I had it in some other fora too, we all once joined and some do even today. In all those threads it was the same. Soon me and others who talked about allied war crimes became  the revisionists, apologists and at least those who support the nazi crimes. No one ever tried to discuss the points I offered as allied war crimes, about all those historians and their evidence. And the end usually was, that some even stated, they should have killed more. The only real dispute went usually around the allied bombing campaign. I had there hot discussions with redcoat and our dead mate viking about it and we usually disagreed. But that was due to a lack of explicite laws against bombing warfare. So it is not necessary to see aerial bombing of WWII as war crime. I just pointed out my position and they there's.
I just was reading the guidelines for a discussion within these section. So I would support you, toyomotor, let us discuss the facts.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2014 at 07:44
I withdraw from this thread.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2014 at 19:31
Originally posted by red clay

I withdraw from this thread.
 
 
I believe the word is "ditto"!
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2014 at 03:32
It seems to me, that after insults did not work, some retreat to avoid discussions they don't like!

Another US author
https://digital.library.txstate.edu/handle/10877/3836

https://digital.library.txstate.edu/bitstream/handle/10877/3836/fulltext.pdf?sequence=1

"This study contends that American soldiers killed large numbers of Axis POWs during the war in Europe. Although the established rules of war did not completely break down as in the Pacific theater, the killing of POWs was an integral part of the American combat ethos because the desensitizing effects of total warfare produced a mental state conducive to the abandonment of the established rules of war. Any enemy soldier who knowingly, or unknowingly, violated the American perception of proper battlefield behavior often met with a fatal response. Moreover, American soldiers whose mental state had been significantly distorted by the brutality of their combat experience often had little compunction about killing enemy prisoner who did not violate these unwritten rules."

That is the standard claim:
 "―It is probable,‖ acting Deputy Theater Judge Advocate Colonel Charles L.
Decker concluded, - that the rumors of shooting PWs were grossly exaggerated, part of
the folklore of the war - isolated incidents having been enormously magnified and
multiplied in the retailing [sic]"

But the truth is "Obviously, Mickelwait and Decker were wrong to assume that such incidents
were rare."
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2014 at 05:08
from Seidler/de zayas, a list of some known war crimes by US units


(1) Charantan, Normandy (14 Jun 1944) A captured NCO named Fanja was killed by a neck shot. (CharantanlNormandie (14. 6. 1944): Der Unteroffizier Fanja wurde nach der Gefangennahme durch Genick schuß getötet.)

(2) Culot, Normandy (Jul 1944): Out of control shooting of captured German soldiers, or shooting out of control German PoWs. (Culot/Normandie (Juli 1944): Erschießung in Gefangenschaft geratener deutscher Soldaten.)

(3) Le Mans (7 Aug 1944): Multiple shootings of captured SS men from Combat Group Fick of the 17th SS PanzerGrenadier Division "Goetz von Berlichingen." (Le Mans (7. B. 1944): Aus der Kampfgruppe Fick der 17. SS-Pz.-Gren.-Division. „Götz von Berlichingen” wurden mehrere gefangene SS-Männer erschossen.)

(4) Klein Punach near Metz (20 Sept 1944): Prisoners were called out of a main group and shot in the back. (Klein Punach bei Metz (20. 9. 1944): Gefangene wurden zum Weggehen aufgefordert und in den
Rücken geschossen.
)

(5) Waldhausen: On 11 Jan 1945 10 captured SS soldiers were shot by the Americans. (Waldhausen (11. 1. 1945): 10 gefangene SS-Soldaten werden von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(6) Tiefenbach (Easter Sunday 1945): Three captured Waffen-SS men were shot by Americans. (Tiefenbach (Osterdienstag 1945): Drei Kriegsgefangene der Waffen-SS werden von US-Amerikanern er-schossen.)

(7) Willenbacherhof (10 Apr 1945): Between 10 and 20 wounded German PoWs were shot by the Americans. (Willenbacherhof (10. 4. 1945): 10 bis 20 verwundete und gefangene deutsche Soldaten von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(8) Hermersberg: On 11 Apr 1945 a German soldier was strangled to death by an American with a wire garotte and a spade. (Hermersberg (11. 4. 1945): Landser mit Drahtschlingen erdrosselt und mit Spaten von US-Amerikanern totgeschlagen.)

(9) Lampoldshausen (Gemeindefriedhof/ Waldstück Fuchsberg): On 13 Apr 1945 six German POWs were shot by Americans. (Lampoldshausen (Gemeindefriedhof/ Waldstück Fuchsberg): 13. 4. 1945: Sechs gefangene deutsche Soldaten von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(10) Hermersberg: On 15 Apr 1945 captured SS soldiers were machine-gunned by Americans. (Hermersberg (15. 4. 1945): Gefangene SS-Soldaten werden von hinten mit Maschinengewehren von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(11) Harkerode (15 Apr 1945): 16 captured Hitler Youths were shot by Americans in a quarry. (Harkerode (15. April 1945): 16 gefangene Hitlerjungen in einem Steinbruch von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(12) Treseburg (18 Apr 1945): 14 hostages, including 11 Hitler Youth, were killed by American neck shots. (Treseburg (18. 4. 1945): 14 Geiseln, darunter 11 Hitlerjungen, durch Genickschüsse durch Amerikaner er-mordet (in Richtung Allrode).)

(13) Lippach near Lauchheim: On 22 Apr 1945 36 German soldiers who had been captured by the Americans were killed by neck shots or by having their heads smashed in ("brained"); about 20 women were raped. (Lippach bei Lauchheim (22. 4. 1945): 36 deutsche Soldaten wurden nach Gefangennahme von US-Amerikanern durch Genickschuß oder Einschlagen der Schädel umgebracht; etwa 20 Frauen vergewaltigt.)

(14) Eberstätten in the provincial district of Pfaffenhofen on the Ilm River: On 28 Apr 1945 German PoWs were placed about 50 meters away and then shot "while attempting to escape." (Eberstätten im Landkreis Pfaffenhofen a. d. Ilm (28. 4. 1945): Deutsche Kriegsgefangene wurden aus etwa 50 Meter Entfernung „auf der Flucht erschossen”.)

(15) Tittling (29 Apr 1945) The mayor was arrested and shot. (Tittling (29. 4. 1945): Festnahme und Erschießung des Bürgermeisters.)

(16) Dachau concentration camp: On 29 Apr 1945 134 members of the guard battalion were executed by American machine-gun fire and 40 others were killed by prisoners. (KL-Dachau (29. 4. 1945): 134 Angehörige des Wachsturmbannes durch amerikanisches MG-Feuer und 40 weitere durch Häftlinge ermordet.)

(17) Dachau concentration camp: On 29 Apr 1945 346 severely injured patients at the Dachau military hospital, along with nurses, doctors, kitchen personnel and others were killed by American machine-gun fire. The SS personnel were not part of the concentration camp cadre, but belonged to the 5th Training Battalion of the "Wiking" Division. (KL-Dachau (29. 4. 1945): 346 Schwer- und Schwerstverwundete des Dachauer Kriegslazarettes, sowie Schwestern, Arzte, Küchenpersonal u.a. durch amerikanische MG-Salven ermordet. Die SS-Leute gehörten nicht zu der Stammannschaft, sondern zum Ausbildungs-Btl. 5 der Division „Wiking”.)

(18) Mauerkirchen-Altheim near Braunau on the Inn River: On 30 Apr 1945 there was (Ausplünderung -- plunder, pillage, spoliation, looting, sacking, rape, despoilment, pilferage, scavenging) of German soldiers. (Mauerkirchen-Altheim bei Braunau/ Inn (30. 4. 1945): Ausplünderung deutscher Soldaten.)

(19) Kleinweil (Großweil postal service): On 30 Apr 1945 two captured German soldiers were shot by the Americans. (Kleinweil (Post Großweil) – 30. 4. 1945: Erschießung von zwei deutschen gefangenen Soldaten durch US-Amerikaner.)

(20) Trassheim near Ruderfing (1 May 1945): US soldiers shot two civilians. (Trassheim bei Ruderfing (1. 5. 1945): US-Soldaten erschießen zwei Zivilisten.)

(21) Oberframmern (1 May 1945): Seven German PoWs were driven to the Dorfstrasse (Dorf Street or perhaps the main road through the town) and shot by the Americans. (Oberframmern (1. 5. 1945): Sieben deutsche Kriegsgefangene wurden von US-Amerikanern durch die Dorfstraße getrieben und erschossen.)

(22) On the way to Altheim, at the beginning of May 1945, Americans shot German PoWs who were too tired to keep up with the column of prisoners. (Verlegung nach Altheim (Anfang Mai 1945): US-Amerikaner erschießen deutsche Gefangene, die aus der Kolonne liefen oder wegen Erschöpfung nicht mehr weiter konnten.)

B. Undated events:

(1) Erching (at the customs house): A captured German NCO was shot by an American. (Erching (Zollhaus): Gefangener deutscher Unteroffizier wurde von Amerikanern erschossen.)

(2) Herbolzheim: Seven SS soldiers who were captured by the Americans were shot. (Herbolzheim: Sieben SS-Soldaten werden nach Gefangennahme von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(3) Kressbach: Six captured SS men were killed by neck shots. (Kressbach: Sechs gefangene SS-Männer durch Genickschuß getötet.)

(4) Neuenbeken field hospital: Two wounded SS soldiers were taken out of their beds and then executed by neck shots. (Feldlazarett Neuenbeken: Zwei verwundete SS-Soldaten wurden aus den Betten geholt und durch Genickschüsse erschossen.)

(5) Nordborchen: A number of captured SS soldiers were shot. (Nordborchen: Erschießung von mehreren gefangenen SS-Soldaten.)

(6) Friedhof von Etteln: 27 captured SS soldiers were killed by neck shots. (Friedhof von Etteln: 27 gefangene SS-Soldaten durch Genickschuß getötet.)

(7) Henglan: Four German prisoners were shot. (Henglan: Erschießung von vier deutschen Gefangenen.)

(8) Paderborn area: Approximately 30 German soldiers and Hitler Youth were shot through the head; a couple of them were tied up. (Raum Paderborn: etwa 30 deutsche Soldaten und Hitlerjungen wurden durch Kopfschüsse getötet (einige starben gefesselt).)

(9) Northwest Upper Harz in the Paderborn area: Approximately 100 captured German soldiers were murdered. (Nordwestlicher Oberharz/Raum Paderborn: Etwa 100 gefangene deutsche Soldaten ermordet.)

(10) Northwest Upper Harz around Osnabrueck: 17 SS soldiers were executed by neck shots. Five dedicated Hitler Youths were hanged by Americans from a tree. (Nordwestlicher Oberharz/Osnabrück: 17 SS-Soldaten durch Genickschuß umgebracht. Fünf Hitlerjungen wer-den, nachdem sie sich ergaben, von den US-Amerikanern an einen Baum gehängt und totgeprügelt.)

(11) Offenhausen near Hersbruck: Three young Waffen-SS PoWs were shot by Americans. (Offenhausen bei Hersbruck: Drei gefangene junge Soldaten der Waffen-SS wurden von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(12) Waschbach near Bad Mergentheim: Drunken Americans raped women and young girls. (Waschbach bei Bad Mergentheim: Betrunkene US-Amerikaner vergewaltigen Frauen und Mädchen.)

(13) Pfaffenhofen: Americans shot 17 captured German soldiers. (Pfaffenhofen: US-Amerikaner erschießen 17 gefangene deutsche Soldaten.)

(14) North of Dachau – Webling: A number of captured German soldiers from Battle Group Truchsess were shot. (Nördlich von Dachau – Webling: mehrere gefangene deutsche Soldaten der Kampfgruppe von Truchseß wurden erschossen.)

(15) Eggstätt near Endorf: Americans shot two German soldiers, after making them dig their own graves. (Eggstätt bei Endorf: US-Amerikaner erschießen zwei Soldaten, die vorher ihre Grablöcher schaufeln mußten.)

(16) Atenau: American troops shot all German soldiers who were trying to surrender. (Atenau: US-Amerikaner erschießen alle Soldaten, die sich vorher ergeben hatten.)

(17) Hengersberg(?): Americans shot the mayor, his wife, two schoolchildren and a "Zufallszeugen." (Hengersberg(?): Erschießung des Bürgermeisters, seiner Frau, zwei schulpflichtigen Kindern und eines Zufallszeugen durch die Amis.)

(18) In the hamlet of Zell, 18 captured anti-aircraft troops were murdered by neck shots. (Ortschaft Zell: 18 Flaksoldaten wurden nach Gefangennahme durch Genickschuß ermordet.)
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2014 at 04:01
red clay, maybe you don't participate, but perhaps you are still reading. If you would take a look into Beevor's D-Day, you can find an story, when on an LST the wounded allied soldiers tried to kill german POWs. Only medic corpsmen could avoid a massacre. But there are meanwhile a lot of stories known, where it happened. So even members of LST's could have known, what had happened.
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