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How to refute Islamist, terrorist, apologists

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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to refute Islamist, terrorist, apologists
    Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 17:54
How do you refute Islamist terrorists and their apologists?
Thru factual and accurate reporting. Here's one example.


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 05-Dec-2012 at 17:54
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Baal Melqart View Drop Down
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 19:18

''Israel strives to minimize civilian casualties. Hamas tries to maximize Israeli civilian casualties and strike fear into the population. This is self-evident based on the fact that Israel strategically targets Hamas terrorists with accurate, pinpoint airstrikes. Hamas, on the other hand, indiscriminately fires deadly rockets at Israeli cities with the intent of killing or maiming Israeli civilians. Hamas purposefully fires from Palestinian population centers to elicit an Israeli response that occasionally results in civilian casualties that who it can use for strictly propaganda purposes. The terrorist group also uses Palestinians as human shields to protect military targets, which is considered a war crime under international law.''

This alone should be enough proof that hamas is a terrorist organisation, not a partisan resistance front. Also, Hamas does not accept Israel's legitimate right to exist as a state. If Hamas had the power to, they would kill all Israelis and throw them into the Mediterranean.

Israel also does not respect the right of Palestinians to have their own sovereignty which is clearly shown by the fact that they constantly uproot their centuries' old olive trees, steal water sources, land and build thousands of settlements in Palestinian territory. But one must be fair of course, Israel does respect Palestinians enough to give them the right to live in the land, especially if they live in Israeli territory and this is obvious since 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian all of whom have full rights as Israeli citizens.


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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2012 at 18:13
An interesting an illuminating piece by a Muslim secularist And while I can not subscribe to his secularism in totality, his view is an interesting one.....note the following:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
''When I studied Islamic history I realized that there have been many traditions of Islam. There was a time when Muslims were enlightened people and had Sufis like Rabia Basri and Mansoor Hallaj and philosophers like Avicenna, Razi and Kundi who studied and translated Greek philosophers. But gradually the enlightened Islam became a fundamentalist and militant Islam and Muslims started following the wahabi and salafi traditions. Pervez Hoodbhoy captures that change in his book Islam and Science in these words:

About 700 years ago, Islamic civilization almost completely lost the will and ability to do science. Since that time, apart from attempts during the Ottoman period and in Mohammad Ali's Egypt, there have been no significant efforts at recovery. Many Muslims acknowledge and express profound regret at this fact. Indeed this is the major preoccupation of the modernist faction in Islam. But most traditionalists feel no regret in fact many welcome this loss because, in their view, keeping a distance from science helps preserve Islam from corrupting secular influences.''

And:
 
 
 
"When we study the political dynamics of the contemporary world, we realize that humanity is at a cross-roads in the 21" century, and since the 9/11 tragedy, everyone has been closely watching the Muslim world. In my opinion one billion Muslims have to choose one of the following 3 roads.

1. They can choose to create theocratic Islamic states and follow the traditions of Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar of Afghanistan, Ayatullah Khomeni of Iran and Zia-ul-Haq of Pakistan, who hanged Zulflqar All Bhutto, a democratically elected prime minister. The Islamization of many Muslim countries has occurred partly because of the teachings of Muslim scholars like Abul Aala Maududi and Syed Qutb, an ideological leader of Al-Qaeda who wrote, "It is the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its laws on all nations, and to extend its power to the entire planet."

2. They can choose peaceful Islam by following the teachings of Muslim scholars like Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz who support studying modern science, psychology and philosophy and adopting the practices of reformers like Abdul Sattar Edhi who dreams of creating Muslim socialist welfare states.

3. They can choose to create secular states like Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Canada where there is a separation of church and state, mosque and the parliament. In those countries religion is considered a private matter and the state is run on a foundation of secular and humanistic laws that respect all citizens, especially women and minorities. In those states all citizens have equal rights and privileges.

Interesting.
 
Because the most successful propositions outlined in those three suggestions is found in either 2. 3. or a combination of both.
 
 
Not in that outlined in 1.
 
 
 
 
 
Which is the current positon of the Hamas terrorist group, the MB, Hezbullah, and the Islamist terrorist leaders of Iran and their various puppet states and agencies. Their apologists and supporters here and eleswhere will attempt to obsfucate that away with the same old anti-IG and genocidalist rhetoric. Doesn't matter.
 
 
 
Their known.
 
 
 
Can't hide.Wink
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 09-Dec-2012 at 18:44
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2012 at 23:56
The Lie That Broke Israel's Back
 
 
"The Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" appeared, in one form or another, some dozen times in the U.N. resolution. This whopper of an old lie, told so often and for so long as to merge fantasy with reality, made Israel's defeat at the U.N. a long time coming. One might say that it made Israel's defeat historically inevitable.


"Occupied Palestinian Territory" (OPT) is a thing of smoke and mirrors. Historically, it never happened; legally, there never was Palestinian territory for Israel to occupy. Israel took the territories from Egypt and Jordan in 1967, and there's no getting away from that. So today Israel has more right than Jordan to be occupying the West Bank, and more right than Egypt to be occupying Gaza (if Israel's blockade may be called occupation). "Palestine" never enters the equation. Turn Middle East wars and laws upside-down and any way you like, but if the territories belong to any U.N. member, or quasi-member, they belong to Israel.

 

***/*****
The lessons of the lie and how to defeat Islamist, fascist, terrorists propogandists and supporters will continue.Wink


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 10-Dec-2012 at 00:00
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2013 at 10:44
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2013 at 11:17
It is very strange partnership.But You have had lot of them:Saddam,Bin Laden,...I think you have always chosen less from two evils.SmileWhat does it means "normal" in this world CV?I saw movie Devil's double and
my impressions are still on it.How many monsters do rule our world soldier?Thanks God you did it Saddam.
Hope will find a way for it without people's suffering.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2013 at 13:32
Originally posted by Baal Melqart


This alone should be enough proof that hamas is a terrorist organisation, not a partisan resistance front. Also, Hamas does not accept Israel's legitimate right to exist as a state. If Hamas had the power to, they would kill all Israelis and throw them into the Mediterranean.

Israel also does not respect the right of Palestinians to have their own sovereignty which is clearly shown by the fact that they constantly uproot their centuries' old olive trees, steal water sources, land and build thousands of settlements in Palestinian territory. But one must be fair of course, Israel does respect Palestinians enough to give them the right to live in the land, especially if they live in Israeli territory and this is obvious since 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian all of whom have full rights as Israeli citizens.

Clap

Secular muslim people have always advantages than secular christians/others. Because they know themselves and also have more opinion about opposite site than secular christians/others have.
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In my culture, if two brothers fight each other, you should firstly beat the older one. Because, he is the one who have to behave mature. Who can teach his little brother the truth? In this case, the older one is Israel who is proud of being only democracy in Middle East(?) But we know how is the conflict managed by Israel goverments.
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CV, do you think that IRA, ETA, HAMAS, PKK and the others just came out beacuse of their evil terrorist structure or they became as a result of a reaction, a reaction of past oppressive behaviours of sovereign states?
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Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis


if the territories belong to any U.N. member, or quasi-member, they belong to Israel.


I am totally in shock. How can you see yourself different than Hamas? You have same mind with jihadist. Ignoring of Israel is Hamasic way as you did for Palestine which is a recognize state by UN



Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2013 at 02:49
Not my statement but one I cited from the article.
Contrary to what you might believe I do not necessarily support that statement in toto. I understand the necessity for it from an Israeli perspective...based on the numerous times Arabs and in particular religious extremists ala Hamas the PLO etc.... brought war to their state....also recognized by the UN. 
Ntl, it is factual correct when read in context with and to the preceding lines on the para. But what I also don't support is a Hamas terrorist organization led Gaza attempting to pop their genocide. Until that obstacle is eradicated. No Territories identification let alone Gaza statehood creation is a feasible option for peace.
 
Therefor while Abbas might be a consideration in the peace process.....like his old master Arafat....he for his agendas; is not yet that which is being bandied about by Hamas adherents and Israeli peace advocates alike. Iow. he is not the critical bridge. 
 
Yet.
 
But as you are entitled to your position and we appear to be doing it a civil fashion....as a member I say: carry on.
 
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 03-Jan-2013 at 02:51
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2013 at 07:09
Originally posted by Baal Melqart


''Israel strives to minimize civilian casualties. Hamas tries to maximize Israeli civilian casualties and strike fear into the population. This is self-evident based on the fact that Israel strategically targets Hamas terrorists with accurate, pinpoint airstrikes. Hamas, on the other hand, indiscriminately fires deadly rockets at Israeli cities with the intent of killing or maiming Israeli civilians. Hamas purposefully fires from Palestinian population centers to elicit an Israeli response that occasionally results in civilian casualties that who it can use for strictly propaganda purposes. The terrorist group also uses Palestinians as human shields to protect military targets, which is considered a war crime under international law.''

This alone should be enough proof that hamas is a terrorist organisation, not a partisan resistance front. Also, Hamas does not accept Israel's legitimate right to exist as a state. If Hamas had the power to, they would kill all Israelis and throw them into the Mediterranean.

Israel also does not respect the right of Palestinians to have their own sovereignty which is clearly shown by the fact that they constantly uproot their centuries' old olive trees, steal water sources, land and build thousands of settlements in Palestinian territory. But one must be fair of course, Israel does respect Palestinians enough to give them the right to live in the land, especially if they live in Israeli territory and this is obvious since 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian all of whom have full rights as Israeli citizens.

 
You are right but these are two different things, everyonw knows that Israel is much more powerful than Hamas, and sometimes Israelis abuse their superiority, but it can never be a pretext for the terrorists attacks of Hamas.
 
You say hamas is a terrorist organisation but we see almost all Islamic countries support these terrorists, many years ago, Iran's former Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini said “If each Muslim pours one pail of water, Israel will be flooded with water”
 
It is interesting for me that Israelis have attacked or threatened some Islamic countries far from their land, like Somalia and Iraq, and of course Iran, but these Islamic leaders don't dare to do anything except supporting some Palestinian suicide bombers!!
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