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Zionism: racist ideology

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Zionism: racist ideology
    Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 19:03
Zionism was a response by Jewish nationalists to years of oppression in Europe. They believed having a homeland of their own would prevent future atrocities like the Holocaust, so began a campaign of bombing and killing in Palestine. After defeating an invasion by the Arab League, the Zionists seized control of the entire country (in violation of the UN two-state solution) and began a policy remarkably similar to the genocide the Jews endured in Germany and Russia. Palestinians are expropriated and beaten if they refuse to leave. Then they are concentrated in ghettos on the West Bank and Gaza and made to live in squalor and poverty. Naturally, this provokes much resentment, and ultimately violence (like the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland). The UN, rightly, recognised Zionism as a form of racism until President Bush pressured them into repealing the act:
http://middleeast.about.com/od/documents/qt/me081017a.htm
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  Quote Salah ad-Din Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 22:30
Oh dear.  I'm a Zionist, guess I must be a racist then :)
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 01:23
True, but which religion isn't racist and believes in superiority to others? 
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  Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 08:25
Originally posted by balochii

True, but which religion isn't racist and believes in superiority to others? 


Zionism is not a religion but a nationalist political creed, steeped in the racism of the late 19th early 20th century. It has little if anything to do with Judaism.
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  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 08:36
Originally posted by balochii

True, but which religion isn't racist and believes in superiority to others? 


Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 08:37
Originally posted by Salah ad-Din

Oh dear.  I'm a Zionist, guess I must be a racist then :)

Gerald Kaufman former chairman of the Labour party would certainly think so.


Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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  Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 10:34
Go Gerald!Clap ClapClap
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 13:20
He'd make a great prime minister.Thumbs Up If he ran instead of that pathetic drip Milliband i'd definitely vote Labour

Edited by Nick1986 - 23-Nov-2012 at 13:21
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  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 14:34
Milliband is actually Kaufman's protege and shares many of his views on Israel.



Edited by Toltec - 23-Nov-2012 at 14:39
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 14:49
Ed's right about gay marriage, raising the minimum wage, and stopping the Iraq War but he could do so much more: capping fuel prices at £1 (subsidised by taxing luxuries like booze or fags), abolishing tuition fees for UK students (or at least reducing them to the £3000 under Blair), distancing himself from the Lib Dems, standing up to unneccessary EU interference, only allowing highly qualified immigrants into the UK (like engineers or doctors), strengthening the currency with gold or silver, improving relations with China, reducing foreign aid, and charging the rich higher taxes (especially big foreign companies)
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  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 15:36
I agree with all those policies but one. If students want to do a degree in such useful subjects as women's studies, film criticism or art they should pay for themselves. We should subsidise medicine, engineering and anything else useful with a large bursary to cover fees and living expenses, the rest, bugger them. 

Edited by Toltec - 23-Nov-2012 at 15:43
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 20:19
Originally posted by Nick1986

He'd make a great prime minister.Thumbs Up If he ran instead of that pathetic drip Milliband i'd definitely vote Labour
 
 
Nah he's just an 'cover' only 'socialist, pretended Jew' who has fallen for the Islamist, terrorist apologist, position. And now likes to critize Israel under the guise of racism. When in reality like the American version he's merely a dupe.
 
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Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 23-Nov-2012 at 20:22
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 01:37
All nationalist ideas can be turn facisim when it becomes only thing in politics. Nationalisim should be stay in cultural area, not political one.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 11:31
Originally posted by Toltec

I agree with all those policies but one. If students want to do a degree in such useful subjects as women's studies, film criticism or art they should pay for themselves. We should subsidise medicine, engineering and anything else useful with a large bursary to cover fees and living expenses, the rest, bugger them. 

Some Mickey Mouse subjects are useless, but at least the people who study them end up with a degree. Maybe they should pay, but even after working during the gap year, most struggled to pay the £3000 fees, never mind the current extortionate rates
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  Quote Rocky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 08:11
Originally posted by Nick1986

Zionism was a response by Jewish nationalists to years of oppression in Europe. They believed having a homeland of their own would prevent future atrocities like the Holocaust, so began a campaign of bombing and killing in Palestine. After defeating an invasion by the Arab League, the Zionists seized control of the entire country (in violation of the UN two-state solution) and began a policy remarkably similar to the genocide the Jews endured in Germany and Russia. Palestinians are expropriated and beaten if they refuse to leave. Then they are concentrated in ghettos on the West Bank and Gaza and made to live in squalor and poverty. Naturally, this provokes much resentment, and ultimately violence (like the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland). The UN, rightly, recognised Zionism as a form of racism until President Bush pressured them into repealing the act:
http://middleeast.about.com/od/documents/qt/me081017a.htm

I strongly disagree with you on that. Last time I checked, the Palestinians were still alive.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 08:23
The Irgun terrorists were founded in 1937 and committed many atrocities against Palestinians, most notably the King David Hotel bombing. Due to their success, is it surprising Palestinian insurgents use similar tactics?
http://middleeast.about.com/od/arabisraeliconflict/f/me090412a.htm
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  Quote Rocky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 08:39
I agree with you that the Zionists carried out terror attacks during the time that the British were in charge of Palestine. I would also admit that the original seizure of Palestinian land would probably be called ethnic cleansing today. Nothing about today's situation reminds me of Nazi Germany. The Israelis are in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation now. They are surrounded by enemies, and they are under attack from within. As an American, I somehow matured into a very pro-Israel position, I am not sure exactly why. I do support the Israelis, I think they are in between a rock and a hard place.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 08:48
Originally posted by Rocky

I agree with you that the Zionists carried out terror attacks during the time that the British were in charge of Palestine. I would also admit that the original seizure of Palestinian land would probably be called ethnic cleansing today. Nothing about today's situation reminds me of Nazi Germany. The Israelis are in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation now. They are surrounded by enemies, and they are under attack from within. As an American, I somehow matured into a very pro-Israel position, I am not sure exactly why. I do support the Israelis, I think they are in between a rock and a hard place.

Just because ethnic cleansing hasn't yet happened on a large scale doesn't mean it's not serious: settlers often murder Palestinians without provocation and seize land they have no right to own. Palestinians are assaulted in the street, homes are demolished, and families are walled up in a concrete ghetto. The Israelis only have enemies because they oppress the Palestinians and respond disproportionately to provocations by an angry and desperate people (like the blacks in Apartheid-era South Africa). The missile defence might provide a short-term solution, but there will only be peace when the Palestinians are given land of their own. Even an independent Palestinian state in Gaza is better than nothing
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  Quote Rocky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 09:12
I find it difficult to believe that all would be peaches and cream if the Israelis show weakness. I believe the Arabs will not stop until Israel no longer exists, and the Israeli people are massacred. I believe the hatred of Jews by many Arabs is very racist. I know that is no excuse for racism, but it certainly is an excuse to defend Israel against Palestinians and others, not to mention suicide bombers.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 10:39
Originally posted by Nick1986

Originally posted by Rocky

I agree with you that the Zionists carried out terror attacks during the time that the British were in charge of Palestine. I would also admit that the original seizure of Palestinian land would probably be called ethnic cleansing today. Nothing about today's situation reminds me of Nazi Germany. The Israelis are in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation now. They are surrounded by enemies, and they are under attack from within. As an American, I somehow matured into a very pro-Israel position, I am not sure exactly why. I do support the Israelis, I think they are in between a rock and a hard place.

Just because ethnic cleansing hasn't yet happened on a large scale doesn't mean it's not serious: settlers often murder Palestinians without provocation and seize land they have no right to own. Palestinians are assaulted in the street, homes are demolished, and families are walled up in a concrete ghetto. The Israelis only have enemies because they oppress the Palestinians and respond disproportionately to provocations by an angry and desperate people (like the blacks in Apartheid-era South Africa). The missile defence might provide a short-term solution, but there will only be peace when the Palestinians are given land of their own. Even an independent Palestinian state in Gaza is better than nothing
 
 
Nick, I'm surprised.  Your knowledge of the history of the area should tell you  that the only thing that would bring peace is the destruction of Israel.  I don't believe that Hamas or Hezbollah give a monkey's nose about the Palestinians.  They use them as an excuse as it gives them some credibility, and an excuse for being there.  They are still Islamic fundy extremists, and as such the destruction of Israel is their only goal.
The Israelis have enemies because they are Jews, simple as that. A thousand years of history doesn't change because there is a Jewish state.   Any idea that a Palestinian State would change anything is naive at best.
 
 
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