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Pyrrhus of Epirus

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Poll Question: Pyrrhus of Epirus
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d' artagnan View Drop Down
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  Quote d' artagnan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pyrrhus of Epirus
    Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:33
So yes definitely smarter then me because I feel like a idiot all the time on here.

In point though didn't he leave italy to fight in Sicily because he knew he couldn't possibly win in Italy but thought that by a victory in Sicily would increase the size of his kingdom.
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:52
He basically got bored in Italy and switched to Sicily got bored during siege operations and switched to Italy. A restless adventurer.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:54
Originally posted by d'artagnan

Oh, by the way being a HS student on here is fun but sucks because you always end up feeling like a idiot.

Then again you might be a lot smarter then me its not very hard.
 
 
 
Fear Not. I have sat on oral examination boards for candidates for the Master's Degree...whom often would have been put to shame by your average HS student. Consequently when and or if you feel that...remember we all have been there.Wink
 
As for Pyrrhus...a very able, borderline good tactician...poor strategist in certain diplomatic senses and tho affable at times was inconsistent in maintaining his focus on any necessary given objective to see it culminate in an overwhelming strategic advantage. I have not read Champion's work but I base my thoughts on Abbot.
 
And that's about 35 years ago.
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d' artagnan View Drop Down
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  Quote d' artagnan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:58
Thanks for the support Centrix. Love the Churchill quote by the way.

He basically got bored in Italy and switched to Sicily got bored during siege operations and switched to Italy. A restless adventurer.

Is bored really the beast way to put it I mean he was a king in charge of mercenaries who need to be paid. You can't exactly stand to be bogged down in siege works can.
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d' artagnan View Drop Down
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  Quote d' artagnan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:59
he. As for being restless aren't we all.
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:59
Abbot doesn't exactly have the best books more for the general reader. Though I do have an 1854 printing of his Hannibal bio :).
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:01
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Thanks for the support Centrix. Love the Churchill quote by the way.

He basically got bored in Italy and switched to Sicily got bored during siege operations and switched to Italy. A restless adventurer.

Is bored really the beast way to put it I mean he was a king in charge of mercenaries who need to be paid. You can't exactly stand to be bogged down in siege works can.

He literally got bored. Lilybaeum was the last Punic stronghold not taking it wasn't a smart move.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:03
He's complex in his style perhaps and a little dry for the reader of today; but his accuracy in the era for which he wrote is still credible enough...He was a major influence on many who have followed. And hang on to that copy.
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  Quote d' artagnan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:07
True.
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:10
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis



He's complex in his style perhaps and a little dry for the reader of today; but his accuracy in the era for which he wrote is still credible enough...He was a major influence on many who have followed. And hang on to that copy.

Its very old and quite well illustrated. Yet it has numerous errors. Most modern historians have far better work. Abbot leaves out and is mistaken in many of his points yet overall not a bad read.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:35
''Most modern historians have far better work.''
''but his accuracy in the era for which he wrote is still credible enough...''
 
Context and era..... always remember... is not merely reference the subject matter but includes those and especially those who write about it contemporaneously or .......later.
 
iow. You can not necessarily objectively judge Abbott in his entirety; when and if additional resources that were not available in his time become so later. Or because one dislikes his premise from the perspective of a much later time period because it does not concur with that which has been developed and being used or expressed now. Or the influence of multidisciplinary studies impacts (which is a rather recent phenom) on later writers.
 
You judge him against the contemporary of his day, in his veracity and use of the method (as it was understood and practiced in his day) versus theirs....first. And then from the perspective of comparison and contrast you have a firmer foundation to judge him against writers and scholars decades later.Wink
 
 
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:47
I do judge against his contemporaries namely Theodore Ayrault Dodge. He has written one of the biggest and best biographies on Hannibal. He witnessed the Civil War as a soldier and wrote a very very good series of bio.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 23:11
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

I do judge against his contemporaries namely Theodore Ayrault Dodge. He has written one of the biggest and best biographies on Hannibal. He witnessed the Civil War as a soldier and wrote a very very good series of bio.
 
Then you have learned early a valuable lesson.Clap Remember to adhere to it and defend it when you see others that do not and or attempt revisionism.
 
And yet I must chide you a bit..Wink because Dodge, as you note, a superb military historian, of his era, and well know for his varying military figure bios during the contemporary era in which Abbot wrote....Is ntl, not exactly a contemporary of Abbot in that respect.
 
Review their bios. Dodge was a historian and professional soldier. Abbot an educator and preacher and in the main writer of juvenile fiction with occasional forays in historical bios etc.....Consequently what was his target audience versus Dodge's. What superior or inferior qualifications or intent was behind their respective efforts. You quite correctly point out for example that Abbot is considered a generalist...even so Dodge the specific.
 
This does not detract however from one not being a specific in being able to write about any particular topic and with credibility...done all the time. Such was Abbot. If you wish to compare and contrast Abbot vs. Dodge...perfectly acceptable and quite right....but when doing so remember my advice above.
 
 
Then long after I'm dead and gone...you can continue to instill in them what I am want to do here on occasion. Whether you accept it as viable remains your choice.LOL
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 23:29
I judg them by their work. If someone around the same time wrote better he gets the kudos.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 08:04
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Oh, by the way being a HS student on here is fun but sucks because you always end up feeling like a idiot.

Then again you might be a lot smarter then me its not very hard.

No one should be feeling here like an idiot, and age means nothing when it comes to knowledge an interests. Opinions are just opinions, and one's opinion shouldn't be source of shagrin if its not shared by others - everyone has the right to have his/her own opinions, and the subject of the opinion is by no means result of lack of knowledge on the matter - on the opposite in many cases it;s a matter of differently chosen values of the one who has the opinion.

My botton line is that we are here to share knowledge and opinions, not to make others feel  like idiots. If you felt like that you can turn to a mod, so to be seen if you sustained some kind of willingly applied insult.
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  Quote d' artagnan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 18:52
I think my problem is I'm slightly narcissistic so any time I don't think I'm as smart or smarter then them I fell like an idiot. Thats a personal problem though so best to ignore it.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 08:12
How could anyone possibly shower praise onto this poor excuse of a ruler, who time after time squanders what he has been given on a plate, and like his father, finds it so easy to get up the noses of those he is meant to be ruling. He was a spoilt rich kid, who carried on being spoiled by those giving him shelter. Any victories gained by him had very little to do with much military prowess, but the huge amount of assistance given by other kingdoms. He was a ruler by name alone, and not by any great ability. I found it to be a very fitting ending of such a man, being hit on the head by a tile thrown by an old woman, and then beheaded, although my guess is it might be a metaphor on his abilities and the way of his demise. 
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 12:00
Actually he was quite brilliant tactically and very brave personally.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 12:25
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Actually he was quite brilliant tactically and very brave personally.

Which tactics, Delenda est Roma, have you knowledge of that mark him out of the ordinary? Personally, because of his privileged background and being heavily backed up by other forces, I see such bravery like that of the bully, only there when his pals are around home. What personal feats of bravery are you aware of which would question that analogy?
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 12:51
Unable to make any significant gains in action, Pyrrhus deployed his elephants, held in reserve until now. The Roman cavalry was threatening his flank too strongly. Aghast at the sight of these strange and brooding creatures which none had seen before, the horses galloped away and threw the Roman legion into rout. Pyrrhus then launched his Thessalian cavalry among the disorganized legions, which completed the Romans' defeat. The Romans fell back across the river and Pyrrhus held the field.
This was one of his brilliant tactical moves and use of a reserve.

His force began to waver, and the Romans gave a thunderous cheer at the turn of events. Grasping the magnitude of the situation, Pyrrhus rode forward, bare-headed, along the lines of his men to show he was still living. This show of bravery strengthened their resolve, and the battle raged on

This is an example of his bravery. He usually fought in the front helping his men fight,


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Heraclea#section_3
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