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Evolution cant be taught in Public School?

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  Quote Fula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Evolution cant be taught in Public School?
    Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 17:28
 
 
Humanity has always had a powerful desire to assign meaning and purpose to the universe and our lives. Indeed, this is a unique characteristic that has propelled our inquiry into the origins of species and mankind. This has been historically true, the words of Homer puts it quite nicely, "as young birds instinctively open their mouths for food, all men crave for gods".

This truth is the essence behind the creation vs evolution debate worldwide. Although the acceptance of evolution theory is overwhemingly agreed upon by most scientist, it is vehemently opposed within many religious circles. So strong is their opposition, a new theory was formed masked with a scientific approach, intelligent design. Alternate theories such as intervention theory has yet to break the fold.

Under the Establishment Clause the push for the teaching of creation theory in public school has been rightly shot down. The Supreme court ruled that the teaching of creation theory "advances religion" and cannot be taught in a public setting. Creation theory clearly advances religion but we seldom see how Evolution theory does as well.

A new era has emerged in which New Thought has catapulted ideas into mainstream thinking. These ideas have begun to form into religions such as New Age and Scientology. Unfortunately this has become problematic for evolution proponents as these new religions have incopoprated evolution theory into their theology.

That being said, due to the influx of new religions the teaching of evolution in public school clearly advances Scientology and New Age religion.

Scientology:
One cannot deny the fact that Scientology was clearly influenced by evolution theory. In A History of Man, Ron Hubbard claims to provide "a coldblooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years." It has become a key text for the Church of Scientology and is Ron Hubbards attempt to detail and explain evolution within a Scientology context. It gives an account of your life as a clam through a caveman and has been ridiculed by many critics. 1

New Age:
New Age religion is also grounded in evolution theory. It attempts to create "a worldview that includes both science and spirituality". 2 Although New Agers hold many diverse views of humanity its central precepts allude to the continued evolution of mankind from a physical being into a god-like spiritual being, beginning a New Age! This idea has even seeped into mainstream thinking by popularising the year 2012. The year in which humanity will begin its next stage of evolution.

Under the Establishment Clause of the US can we see how the incorporation and influence of evolution theory can violate this Law. Or is this an invalid comparison?

References:

1. Jon Atack, A Piece of Blue Sky, Lyle Stuart, (1990).

2. Neville Drury, The New Age: Searching for the Spiritual Self, pg. 10. London, England, UK: Thames and Hudson (2004)

Edited by Fula - 19-Jul-2012 at 17:30
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 18:35
I think the difference, Fula, is that creationism is a product of religious teachings in its origins, whereas with evolution these religious sects come about after the fact, so they are a product of it. 
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 19:18
Fula, I don't understand exactly what are trying to say, but I will say something which I consider useful, regarding the evolutionism.


I don't want to open a dispute, so don't expect to continue the discussion, excepting if I find something else useful to say.

Paradoxally, any theory is not a step futher but a limitation. When you believe you know something, you actually deprive yourself from seeking / searching more.


Atheism / evolutionism is as dogmatic and self-limiting as various religions, not to mention hilarious. I mean, how naive one can be to believe that mattery can have rational perceptions about itself? This is illogical and absurd as I wonder how nobody ironized it in some comedy sketch     !



There are some psychological and social factors that make people adopt atheist belief (yes, is a belief, that means a convinction) and kill their brain with it not much different than religionists do the same thing with their religious beliefs.

One of these factors is that few people can escape narcissism (not the one considered pathological but a more 'normal' one) and admit that they are stupid and limited. Is natural for someone to believe he's intelligent, superior bla-bla. I noticed the same narcissist tendencies at islamists and proselytist atheists, I mean under the masque of their belief, they actually try to feed their self-adoration and triumphalist delusions.

Other factor is that when something come to be considered 'normal', most people tend to conform in a hypocritical way, they don't have the courage to stand against the crowd because they fear for their social comfort. And many idiotic things are or were considered 'normal' in society, leading to more perversion of characters and social norms. The society is actually a nuthouse, both by absurdity of its 'values' and by the psychological disorders of individuals as result of this conformism.

This conformism is manifesting both in religious and 'scientifical' envinronments. People are so sick, that if one is not like them, they believe he is crazy.

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 19:30
Personally, i think both theories should be taught in schools: evolution in biology lessons and creationism in religious studies/philosophy

Edited by Nick1986 - 19-Jul-2012 at 19:31
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 20:23
I am neither afarid of it's inclusion nor will necessarily reject in the entirety it's precepts. It has value in it's original objectivity and enforcement of the scientific method. My personal faith does not require nor does it dismiss it. It simply is.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 21:08
Originally posted by Menumorut



Paradoxally, any theory is not a step futher but a limitation. When you believe you know something, you actually deprive yourself from seeking / searching more.
Knowing something or taking a step forward/further in an investigation may not be a paradox in the way you suggest, not in a logical sense that is, Menumorut. There have been many theories strived for which have gone on to be proven. A proven theory is a step forward to that which hasn't. A limitation would be the theory without evidence or proof. A limitation in that case is a question without an answer, whereas an answer takes away that limitation. An answer is not a limitation but an opportunity to collect knowledge based on evidence.  


Originally posted by Menumorut

 Atheism / evolutionism is as dogmatic and self-limiting as various religions, not to mention hilarious. I mean, how naive one can be to believe that mattery can have rational perceptions about itself? This is illogical and absurd as I wonder how nobody ironized it in some comedy sketch     !
I don't believe that evolutionism is self-limiting enough to insist on those who do believe in it have to be atheist, or any follower of anything else. As for its believers being dogmatic, this is probably par of the course for those considered to be a "believer". I would only say that in comparison to those who believe in creationism, those looking towards evolutionism have a little bit more to be dogmatic about.
I'm afraid I'm going to need to have an explanation from you on this, "I mean, how naive one can be to believe that mattery can have rational perceptions about itself? This is illogical and absurd as I wonder how nobody ironized it in some comedy sketch". I'm not saying it might not have some meaning, I'm only saying I'm in need for an explanation before I can properly comment on it. Sorry about that, Menumorut. 



Originally posted by Menumorut

 There are some psychological and social factors that make people adopt atheist belief (yes, is a belief, that means a convinction) and kill their brain with it not much different than religionists do the same thing with their religious beliefs.
I agree, Menumorut, there are psychological and social factors that make people adopt beliefs sometimes, but at least we are usually able to detect if their belief are based on the irrational or not.Confused   

Originally posted by Menumorut

 One of these factors is that few people can escape narcissism (not the one considered pathological but a more 'normal' one) and admit that they are stupid and limited. Is natural for someone to believe he's intelligent, superior bla-bla. I noticed the same narcissist tendencies at islamists and proselytist atheists, I mean under the masque of their belief, they actually try to feed their self-adoration and triumphalist delusions.
This is one of a group of similar types of statements which I tend to find myself asking, how do you know that few people can escape narcissism, in the way explained by your good self? I'm not saying there's not a possibility, I'm only asking what you are referencing your belief on believing most must be. 

Originally posted by Menumorut

 Other factor is that when something come to be considered 'normal', most people tend to conform in a hypocritical way, they don't have the courage to stand against the crowd because they fear for their social comfort. And many idiotic things are or were considered 'normal' in society, leading to more perversion of characters and social norms. The society is actually a nuthouse, both by absurdity of its 'values' and by the psychological disorders of individuals as result of this conformism.
I would agree with a great deal of that, Menumorut. Maybe this is me trying to conform in the way you have said, which would be, imo, in a more socially adhesive manner. If that is generally the sign of a nut house mentality, Menumorut, then maybe we should be asking, what come first the nut house mentality, or society itself? 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2012 at 01:29
Menu, you equate Evolutionists with Atheists.  Aside from being entirely false, your stepping over the line.  If someone believes in science that makes him a "Nutcase"?  Okay, then what does believeing in an ethereal, omnipotent supernatural being, that no one can see and can't be proven to exist, make you? 
 
And before this degenerates, having moderated many of these, I'll eliminate one problem right off.  Evolution, the process, isn't theory, it's established scientific fact.  The How, When and Why, are the theoretical subjects. 
 
 
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  Quote Fula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2012 at 10:25
I think some may have mis-understood my post a little. I am not trying to discredit evolution theory or creationism/intelligent design.
 
My theory:
due to the influx of new religions the teaching of evolution in public school clearly advances Scientology and New Age religion.

Some may say well these new religions came up after evolution theory and just hijacked its claim. My point is that, it doesnt matter becuase of the Establishment Clause. Evolution Theory is now advancing and alluding to the validity of Scientology and New Age religion.
 
The "Establishment Clause" was intended to prevent any governmental endorsement or support of religion. The same reason why Creation theory cant be taught in public school has now become the same reason why we cant teach Evolution theory.
 
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2012 at 12:48
Originally posted by Menumorut






Atheism / evolutionism is as dogmatic and self-limiting as various religions


 


Atheism is not dogmatic, it's logical and scientific. Science does not accept any god, and so does atheism.
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2012 at 13:30
Originally posted by red clay

Menu, you equate Evolutionists with Atheists.  Aside from being entirely false, your stepping over the line.  If someone believes in science that makes him a "Nutcase"?  Okay, then what does believeing in an ethereal, omnipotent supernatural being, that no one can see and can't be proven to exist, make you? 


When I used the word nuthouse I didn't refer to Atheist beliefs but to social conformism. In my opinion, any form of hypocrisy leads to psychological disorders.


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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2012 at 13:42
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

Originally posted by TITAN_

[QUOTE=Menumorut]




Atheism / evolutionism is as dogmatic and self-limiting as various religions


 


Atheism is not dogmatic, it's logical and scientific. Science does not accept any god, and so does atheism.
 
 
 
Your subjective opinion does not make atheism not dogmatic nor logical or scientific necessarily other then for yourself. It does indeed have trappings of a dogma in it's generally rigid adherence by it's numerous mainstream followers and it's rejection of any objective counter arguments.
 
 
As for a rejection of a creator.... Mainstream Science using it's own method fails, because it is not even attempting to research necessarily to find a creator, using the method. Rather it merely avoids the issue by adopting the atheist or agnostic position. Which in part as noted by others is fed by evolutionary precepts. This unwillingness to objectively examine marks them at best as poor scientists at worst fellow practitioners of dogmatic atheism as it is academically defined, to include by themselves.
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 20-Jul-2012 at 13:49
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  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2012 at 14:18
Originally posted by Nick1986


Personally, i think both theories should be taught in schools: evolution in biology lessons and creationism in religious studies/philosophy




I agree creationism and evolution should both be taught in PE/French class.
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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  Quote hzcummi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2012 at 20:40

If pastors, priests. rabbis, and "so called" Christians would stop their false (old Earth) and foolish (young Earth) teachings, and start promoting the truth of Genesis (Observations of Moses), then there would hardly be any room for the ridiculous teaching of evolution. 

Collectively, Bible believers are so "blind", that their approach to Genesis is a joke.  Instead of seeking the truth, they continue to support the current lies and foolishness of Creationism.  Genesis does not have any "Creation accounts".  When you keep telling a person that their car is running out of gas, and they refuse to look at the fuel gauge and go to the gas station, you begin to wonder how "dumb" they are.  

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2012 at 20:46
Herman, what is the difference between Creationism and the "Truth of Genesis"?

Edited by Nick1986 - 25-Jul-2012 at 20:47
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  Quote hzcummi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2012 at 21:19

Creationism teaches false (old Earth, non literal), and foolish (young Earth, sometimes literal) doctrines.  There are no "creation accounts" in Genesis.  The reason that chapter one and chapter two are out of sequence, is because the mankind of chapter one was from 64 Million BC, and Adam was from 7200 BC.  The PowerPoint presentation of the "Observations of Moses" proves it to be true.  But both churches and academia are scared of the presentation, because it exposes both of them to be wrong.

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2012 at 21:43
Perhaps the "seven days" it took God to create the earth were actually billions of years as time must pass slowly for an immortal being? I seem to remember reading that God created other races of men before Adam, but destroyed them because of their wickedness
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  Quote KongMing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2012 at 01:56
Not in my Bible. :/
God created the Angels, then Humans. There is a theory that Angels inhabited the world before Humans though. (A possible explanation for the city of Tihaunaca and other places.)
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  Quote Fula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2012 at 08:39
So nobody is going to address the topic of how evolution advances Scientology and New age religion... which violates the establishment clause?
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  Quote KongMing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2012 at 17:08
I've heard the same thing. It might be true but it's probably not something alot of people know much about.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2012 at 17:40
Originally posted by Fula

So nobody is going to address the topic of how evolution advances Scientology and New age religion... which violates the establishment clause?
I wasn't aware that Scientology and New age religion were mainstream within the education system, Fula.
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