Is it worng to kill ones self as a theological and

Originally posted by Sidney I do not have a right to live unless I also have a right to die - otherwise my living is nothing more than a compunction, and something I have no choice over.

That's very well said. But this is exactly what is done in religion, taking one's freedom to live, since one cannot choose yo die if one want to, since Christianity in all shapes, AFAIK, considers it mortal sin. Hence, if a person is interested where he/she is going to spent eternity, he/she has no choice but to live, as a compunction.
 I know of several persons in the local jail that had been arrested because of trying to commit a suicide - so there is in US a legal control over it; AFAIK they are not to be put on trial, but spent some time there.

The practice of sutee wasn't really a suicide, but a remnant of human sacrifices, when wives were killed on the grave of their husband, the practice was very ancient and was mentioned by some Greek historian who traveled with Alexander to India, if I remember right. So I don't see it a suicide; now, the practice of harakiri was a real suicide, because even though it was expected, one wasn't obliged to do it - only had to live in shame if he/she didn't. Suicide was more or less valued by the Greko-Roman stoics, and it was done as a conscious choice /even though some emperors, like Caligula, I think came to the perverse practice to send a knife to people they wanted gone, which meant "commit suicide or I'm going to do it for you"/.



Edited by Don Quixote - 20-Apr-2012 at 21:12

Originally posted by Don Quixote Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis And I commend your ability to refrain from the usual normie. secularist attacks on beliefs and opinions of others. Traditional or non.   If I offended your or anyone else's views, I apologize, this was never my intention; nor was my intention to attack them. I don't remember saying "Christian did, Christians that", all I do is say my opinion. Since I cannot change it only to accommodate others, I apologise for all future insults and attacks on anyone beliefs in advance - this is the most I can do.

I  haven't research the perception of suicide among the  slaves and the plebs in Greece/Rome, so I'll take your word on it. Anyway, it seems that any given community anywhere in all times had to deal with the potential suicides, so they devised ways to keep people from doing it - moral, religious, citizenships, family, etc, obstacles so it not to be done. However, in those times the natural selection was allowed to weed who's body is able to live and produce, and whose's not - this is not valid anymore, due to the progress of the medical science, so many people end up having to live long and painful lives, with no hope of relief, or a sooner end. With the raising of life expectations people develop and have to live with diseases that weren't a problem before, because people died before they can get Alzhaimers, senility, etc. It's a very close to  sadism to require people how live in constant pain for different reasons, and who refuse to take specialized painkillers because the last make one unable to have a normal life, due to the dizziness and muscle suppressoin they cause.

This wasn't a problem before, because  such people wouldn't be born to start with, or would die as kids, because no one would have the resources to artificially prolong their lives. But now it's a legitimate problem, to which, AFAIK, there is no solution found; we messed up the natural selection, we learned to create artificially lives that not always are viable, and come at high cost.  It's easy to talk how suicide is a weakness, or whatever, for a person who doesn't have to endure pain on 7-8 out out 10 scale, 24/7, all the time. It's easy to require the others to live with that, when it's their back on the rack. After all society sees it's members as assets, what are there to provide, work, etc, and doesn't care at all about the cost on which such life is to be continued. The personal happiness of people was never an objective to any society, only the work it can get from a given person.

So I reject any attempts from any side on any grounds to forbid me, or anyone else, the right, if I/they want to, to end my their life/s, if I, or anyone else, chooses so. This is a personal decision, and no one has the right to make a person, any person, endure what he/she himself don't have to live with; no more than anyone has the right to take mine, or anyone else's life.

All this said, again, is another matter that in my opinion is not such a hot choice to cause something that will come anyway, and it's unavoidable to start with.


Edited by Don Quixote - 21-Apr-2012 at 15:18

I would like to propose the idea that the reason we think of suicide in the way that we currently do is because we have lost our honor system. In ancient Japan, China, and maybe medieval Europe(not really my specialty)it was a way of protecting ones honor and his families honor along with it. So what I' m thinking is that we judge suicide as bad because we no longer look at things through a system of hone but instead look at it as a religious ideal/social views.

I'm not saying that honor can't exist in a religion based system.What I'm saying is that we don't currently have an honor based system but one that looks at how gos and society with society usually having even more pull then the religious side.