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Theseus and the Minotaur

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Theseus and the Minotaur
    Posted: 18-Jan-2012 at 20:11

According to legend, the Greeks were forced to send youths to the mad Cretan king for sacrifice. Deep in a labyrinth below the palace at Knossos dwelled a hideous monster: the Minotaur which was the offspring of a white bull that buggered the queen. While a bull-headed man may never have existed, bulls featured prominently in the worship of the Canaanite god Molech. Did a similar cult exist in Greece? Perhaps the bull-headed man Theseus killed was the high priest (probably one of Minos' younger sons)
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2012 at 19:32

Here are the remains of the palace at Knossos, discovered by a British archaeologist at the turn of the century
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2012 at 19:12

Bull mask worn by Minoan priests
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2012 at 20:09
The bull cult is a very ancient one, staring from Gobekli Tepe and Catal Huyuk, /he was connected with the Mother-Goddess cult, and the both placed he and the bull were well discerned/; Minoans worshiped primarily female goddesses, which were aspects of the Mother-Goddess, and had a ritual "bull-leaping"
http://www.travel-pictures-gallery.com/images/greece/heraklion-knossos/heraklion-knossos-0012.jpg

It is though that the Minoans practiced human sacrifice
http://www.ime.gr/chronos/02/crete/images/thriskia/anemospila.gif
"...Today there is clear evidence that human sacrifice took place in Minoan Crete. The most important piece of evidence comes from a relatively recent find from the peak sanctuary at Anemospilia near Archanes. In this building a skeleton of a young person killed by a knife was found. The person must have been sacrificed a little before the collapse of the building, in the Middle Minoan IIIA period (1750-1700 BC). At first this interpretation was rejected as it was judged incompatible with the character of Minoan society thitherto considered a peaceful, non-violent society...." http://www.ime.gr/chronos/02/crete/en/religion/ceremonies.html

Anyway, the Greek myth reflects the victory of Greek/Dorians over Minoans, in about 1150 BC, before which the Minoans were influential over the mainland Greeks. It's possible that the myth has only symbolic meaning - Theseus kills the Minotaur=Greeks/Dorians overwhelmed the Minoan culture. But I think it's quite possible that the Greeks were paying tribute to the Minoans at some point, and maybe some of this tribute was in slaves; if the Minoans practiced human sacrifuced, they would probably sacrifice slaves, not his own children; and that Theseus was a real person, later deified, who killed a priest. I'd keep the both scenarious as valid possibilities.

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2012 at 20:12
I loved Theseus and that story. I'll let others opine on the animal cults..never was that interested per se. But that story remains a classic.
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2012 at 11:11
Bulls played a large part in the mythology of the Cretan extended royal family;
Minos, King of Crete, was the son of Europa who was seduced by Zeus in the form of a bull. He was also descended from Io, the nymph whom Zeus turned into a cow to hide her from his jealous wife, Hera. Europa's brother was commanded by the Delphic oracle to follow a cow and where it lay down, to found a city. He did so, calling the city Thebes.
Pasiphae, the mother of the Minotaur, and wife of Minos, was the sister to Aeetes, King of Colchis, who had fire-breathing bulls amongst his cattle.
The conception of the Minotaur is as follows;
Minos, when he became king, prayed to Poseidon, god of the sea, to send a sign to the Cretans that he was the rightful king. A beautiful white bull emerged from the sea, and Minos, who should have sacrificed it to the god, put it with his own cattle and sacrificed another bull instead. Poseidon was angry at this, and caused Pasiphae to fall in love with the bull. She had a wooden cow made so she could lie in it and have sex with the bull. The result was a son, Asterion, who was born with a bull's head, was called the Minotaur, and was hidden away in the labyrinth.

The bull of Poseidon still caused havoc on the island of Crete with its fierce nature, and one of Heracles' tasks was to capture it and take it alive to King Eurytheus. He did so and then released it onto the mainland, where it ran wild, frightening the countryside until Theseus killed it near Marathon, who later killed the Minotaur.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2012 at 20:13
It's been suggested Minoan bull-worship and human sacrifice were introduced by Babylonian traders:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-OwRuSQQYi0C&lpg=PA373&dq=minoan%20minotaur&pg=PA372#v=onepage&q&f=false
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2012 at 20:54
Click on the image to zoom in
Click of the words above to see the image
Sacrificial Minoan vessel, from "The Art of Crete and Early Greece: The Prelude to Greek Art" by Friedrich Matz , 1962, I read on Questia, pg. 130

"...
Let us consider first a piece that is relatively large in size: the bull's head of black steatite shown in the Plate on p. 130. Characteristically enough, it is a vessel. The neck has at the rear a closely fitting lid. Liquid is introduced through an aperture at the top and is poured out between the lips. Only the right-hand half of the head, or a little more than this, can claim to be of real antiquity. The ears were made of steatite and the horns of gold plate; the latter were affixed subsequently. The nostrils are framed by a shell inlay. Another inlay of rock-crystal served for the eye, which has a pupil painted red, a black iris and a red border. This type of vessel, known as a rhyton, originates from the Orient. In Crete it was used to contain ritual offerings. This example was in fact also found at Knossos, in a chamber in the 'Little Palace' where rites were performed. It was made in the 16th century (LM I). Oriental.bulls' heads tend to be more stylized. Those from Greece are more tectonic in character, great importance being attached to representation of the skeleton, although this may also be merely implicit. The bull's head from Knossos has a spontaneous naturalism in which the sense of the animal's vitality is blended with an element of myth and mystery. This is brought about by the absolutely confident three-dimensional plasticity, which has neither the rectangular system found in Egyptian art nor the Greek concept of organic wholeness. It will help us to gain a better understanding of the work if we recall that in Minoan pictorial representation the bull symbolizes a sacrificial animal and sacrifice as such. The view of some scholars that the Minoans worshipped a bull-god seems untenable. The underlying idea is rather that of an antithetic manifestation of divine force that triumphs in overcoming this symbol of power and fertility. The bull's head on the stucco relief of the North Propylon shown in the Plate on p. 108 is more austere and expressive, and is hampered to a greater extent by the decoration. It is older, and a comparison between the two affords an insight into artistic development during the Late Palace period. With this rhyton Minoan 'naturalism' reached its apogee. .." pg, 124-125, Ibid

This is the picture from pg.108

Click on the image to zoom in


So, the very idea of sacrifice was embodied in the presentation of the bull - sacrifice of the bull or to the bull, or maybe both?


Edited by Don Quixote - 04-Apr-2012 at 20:56
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2012 at 19:24
Other civilisations also had myths of a hero defeating the Molech cult, including Cacus in Italy and Talos in Sardinia
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rZJMAAAAcAAJ&dq=minotaur%20molech&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q&f=false
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2012 at 10:16
Originally posted by Nick1986


Here are the remains of the palace at Knossos, discovered by a British archaeologist at the turn of the century


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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2012 at 13:03
Human sacriface was in Hittite and Phryg culture, so why not for greece. Especially you should focus on Dionysos
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2012 at 13:46
Excellent point. The Greek mythology has a number of examples. Agamemnon's sacrifice of Iphigenia.
Atigone....Pyramus and Thisbe....Baucis and Philemon etc etc.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2012 at 05:48
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

Excellent point. The Greek mythology has a number of examples. Agamemnon's sacrifice of Iphigenia.
Atigone....Pyramus and Thisbe....Baucis and Philemon etc etc.


These myths indicate that human sacrifice was more likely a pre-hellenic or proto-hellenic custom that was abandoned before the Geometric Period.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2012 at 19:24
Memories, no doubt, of a more violent and irrational past which the Greeks sought to distance themselves from
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