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medenaywe
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Topic: Origins of language! Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 08:02 |
zd-rave - health=Tongue-like gift delivered!(rave=To It Hand make=shaking usual regard between 2 pople) zd-ravei - hello /literally "be heatly"/=Answer to(Tongue-like gift delivered),help me here Don,IF someone salutes you,you will re-salute?Word is needed here! zd-rav - healthy for a person; sturdy, hard, durable for a thing=Tongue-like gift arms obedience!
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medenaywe
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Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 08:03 |
Latin words you have?Post them!
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medenaywe
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Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 08:42 |
zve-zda - star=DzveZDa=Footed One,Tonger Agrees!(verb for agreement?)
In Czech the only "dz" I found is dze-m - jam=Djem=Defensive interior!
I found some "zd" though in Czech: br-zda - brake=Order-like sprout tongues agreement! ode-zd - departur=Nestable Deity tongues gift! pra-zd-ni - empty; in Bulgarian the same word became "pra-zen" - the "zd" going into "z" with one lenition=Liquid arm prays mother's!(prazen) ji-zd-ne - fare=(Dji=ji?) zde - here=Tongue-like Deity
I found this is Roma language: bu-tji- possession - "tj" is a one lenition step from "dz"=Lovely dream pluralizes! dzo-lana
and djo-lano, - both in use for "mule"; in this word can be see how
easy is for "dz" to pass into "dj". Maybe you can use "dj" words for
"dz"? mi-dj-lo-li- erection=Peaceful animal draws light! min-dj - female genitals=Peaceful mother's animal! su-man-dji - family heirloom=Hungry support mother's beasts!(beast verb?) thrushal o-dji - hungry soul=Dreaming arrow hands joking spark and nestable beast! Te shordjol muri godji sar shordjol kadi bera - May my brains flow out the way this beer flows out if Te shordjol muro rat - May my blood spill=Predictive riddle sprouts (animal nest word?!?)sparkand vaginal root dreams! djezbe - little conical coffee pot with long handle, the same word is used in Bulgarian=Defensive tongue promises!
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 12:57 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
Latin words you have?Post them!
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Latin words with what? There isn't "dz", "zd", "choi" and "cui" in Latin; I can get you only "ci" and "co", pronounced like si and co ot ki and ko. I have to run, I'll comment on your work later . Tell me what syllables you need from Latin and Italian, I hope to get more dict today form the other library.
Edited by Don Quixote - 08-Mar-2012 at 12:58
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medenaywe
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Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 15:33 |
Let us finish than "Nj" forms and will go to "KJ" forms that exist in Macedonian&Serbian.In Serbian is "Chj" soft ch!
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Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 17:50 |
I just got a bunch of dicts from the library - Hebrew, Tajik Turkish, Hungarian, Kurdish, Urdu, Amharic, Pashto, Slovak, Bosnian, Serbo-Croatian, and a separate small Serbian one, so before going to "nj" I'm gonna give one more shot for "dz", "choi and "chui".
Edited by Don Quixote - 08-Mar-2012 at 18:04
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Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 21:47 |
I'm going to start with the Hungarian one /because is a small dict/. I didn't find "choi' but I got "csoy" l/cs=ch, oy=oa in "goal" I think it's one linguistic step from "choi" - a fortition/: csoy-kolny - to kiss csoyk- kiss
With "o" with two dots on it/I have no way to represent the dots/, pronounced like "ai" in "waiter", so the syllable will read "chei": cso-kkenes - decrease cso-kkenteni - to reduce
With "chiu" /"u"with 2 dots on top/ one linguistic step from "chui" - metathesis: csu-to/ei/rtoei/k - Thursday csu-sni - ti slip
With "dz": dzse-m - jam
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 01:12 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
zd-rave - health=Tongue-like gift delivered!(rave=To It Hand make=shaking usual regard between 2 pople). Being healthy is really a gift, and a "gift" being "delivered", even though I don't know what a tongue has to do with it. zd-ravei - hello /literally "be heatly"/=Answer to(Tongue-like gift delivered),help me here Don,IF someone salutes you,you will re-salute?Word is needed here! Yes, you say "zdravey" the other person say "zdravei" or "zdrasti" which is the same - "be healthy". zd-rav - healthy for a person; sturdy, hard, durable for a thing=Tongue-like gift arms obedience!
To be healthy means to have your body obeying to your mind - "obedience of arms".
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I think it connects well
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 03:20 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
zve-zda - star=DzveZDa=Footed One,Tonger Agrees!(verb for agreement?) Agrees is OK..completes I think would go to, it has more of a feeling of "agreement by necessity", "fulfulling", I'm not sure this is what you need though. Stars can be said to be "footed", they "walk" on the sky. I don't get the "tonger" though, what do you mean with it, something with a tongue?
In Czech the only "dz" I found is dze-m - jam=Djem=Defensive interior! The jam one eats goes right in his/her interior.
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I'll do the rest tomorrow
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medenaywe
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 06:55 |
Chaharshanbe Suri=Flame-able destination sprouts comical mother's promise and hungry resurrection!
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 13:59 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
Chaharshanbe Suri=Flame-able destination sprouts comical mother's promise and hungry resurrection! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaharshanbe_Suri Jumping flames - very fitting for "flame-able destination sprouts"; and one needs mothers's promise that he will not get burned in it; "ressurection" through fire is a very ancient idea, in Zoroastrianism etc, - fire purification, only the pure can be ressurected. Very reminiscent of the Bulgarian "Nestinari". So, purification through "flame" as "destination" and "ressurection" as "promise" by "mother"-goddess - very loaded word. |
Edited by Don Quixote - 09-Mar-2012 at 14:06
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medenaywe
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 14:25 |
I am so sorry i am right Don! I need longer sentences for structure analysis here,they will come directly from my virtual stone maybe! We have a lot of job to do here.I am hungry for words.Big mouth starves big mouth needs food!(Strumpf's character replica!)
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 14:34 |
I'll write you more words tonight, I have to go now. Any news on the Hungarian words with "ch" and "dz"? Couple of more Hungarian ones, with "ZD": ke-dze-nt - beginning=Approved Footprint(Sun,God walks above on stone sky with stone foots and sparks we see as sun light)mother's dreams! ke-dzo-betik - initials=Approved Dzo promises innocent equality! ke-dzo-dni - to start=Approved Dzo gifts courage! Dzo=From Foot-like nest=Shoe or ground?
I scanned the Serbian dict for "dz", but didn't find any. The Bosnian one is my next to read. It takes time, but I'll get you words, I promise.
Edited by medenaywe - 11-Mar-2012 at 01:27
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medenaywe
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 14:40 |
I miss the order of answering here!Are those words you talk about? kara-kon-dzol - I think it's a Turkish word, it means something like a demon par-dzu-l, which I also heard as "parzul" - means human excrement, and it's likely a Turkish word It
there were some words with dz in Russian and Bulgarian they probably
passed into "z" or "dj". How about words with "zd"? From "dz" to "zd"
is only one metathesis, and there is a word with "zd" in Bulgarian: zve-zda - star
In Czech the only "dz" I found is dze-m - jam
I found some "zd" though in Czech: br-zda - brake ode-zd - departur pra-zd-ni - empty; in Bulgarian the same word became "pra-zen" - the "zd" going into "z" with one lenition ji-zd-ne - fare zde - here
I found this is Roma language: bu-tji- possession - "tj" is a one lenition step from "dz" dzo-lana
and djo-lano, - both in use for "mule"; in this word can be see how
easy is for "dz" to pass into "dj". Maybe you can use "dj" words for
"dz"? mi-dj-lo-li- erection min-dj - female genitals su-man-dji - family heirloom thrushal o-dji - hungry soul Te shordjol muri godji sar shordjol kadi bera - May my brains flow out the way this beer flows out if Te shordjol muro rat - May my blood spill djezbe - little conical coffee pot with long handle, the same word is used in Bulgarian Will fix it tomorrow.I am tired now!Bye!
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 14:47 |
No, you did most of those, I didn't comment on them yet. I'm talking about the Hungarian ones I posted yesterday, now I added 3 more. Those:
I'm going to start with the Hungarian one /because is a small dict/. I
didn't find "choi' but I got "csoy" l/cs=ch, oy=oa in "goal" I think
it's one linguistic step from "choi" - a fortition/: csoy-kolny - to kiss csoyk- kiss With
"o" with two dots on it/I have no way to represent the dots/,
pronounced like "ai" in "waiter", so the syllable will read "chei": cso-kkenes - decrease cso-kkenteni - to reduce With "chiu" /"u"with 2 dots on top/ one linguistic step from "chui" - metathesis: csu-to/ei/rtoei/k - Thursday csu-sni - ti slip With "dz": dzse-m - jam ke-zde-nt - beginning ke-zdo-betik - initials ke-zdo-dni - to start I hope they will keep you from starvation until I get you more tonight.
Edited by Don Quixote - 09-Mar-2012 at 14:50
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Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 16:34 |
Here several Hungarian words with the interesting syllable "dsz" - I think this is "dz" with a half lenition to it, not even a full linguistic step of change; it is supposed to be pronounced "dz", because the week "s" melts with the stronger sound of "z"; so it's "dz" IMHO for all practical purposes: ren-dsz-eresen - regularly ren-dsze-rind - as a rule ren-dsz-mtabla - number plate ren-dsze-r - system
With "ch" /written cs/ csu-klami - hiccups\csi-po - hip cse-cse-mo - infant csa-rda - inn tolma-cs - interpreter pa-csi-rta - lark ki-csi - little ala-cso-ni - low csi-nalni - make
csa-ladi alapota - marital status csa-lad - family - In Bulgarian 'cheliad' means 'children', dialectic csa-k - only csa-ladnev - famili name csa-lodas - dissapontment csapat - team csa-tlakotas - connection cse-kely - slight csekk - check
cse-nd - silence cse-ndes - quiet cse-ngetni - to ring the bell cse-pp - drop cse-relni - to change cse-resznye - cherry; in Bulgarian - "cheresha" cse-sze - cup csi-llag - star csi-nos - pretty csi-pke - lace csi-pos - hot
cso-da - miracle cso-dalamos - wonderful cso-dalkozni - to marvel lat-cs0 - opera glasses pala-csi-nta - crepe; the same in Bulgarian cso-mang - parcel csa-var - screw csu-szos - slippery
Hungarian is supposed to be a Uralic language, and as such connected with Estonian and Finish, and the little Republic of Mari El in Russia. The Uralic languages are loosely connected to the Indo-European family, and both Urasiatic and Nostratic hypotheses consider Indo-Europeans nd Uralic families to make one larger one Indo-Uralic language family. In any case it's good to have a representative on one more language family here, so far we have Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic /with Ancient Egypt/represented.
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Posted: 10-Mar-2012 at 01:55 |
I'm browsing the Bosnian dict now. So far I haven't found words with "dz", but there are quite a few with "ch" /it's written as "c" with a "hat" but I have way to present the hat, so I'll write it as "ch"/: chai - tea= smoke chai-nik - teapot= Smoking courage equals! cha-k - even= Flame-able equality! camak - boat= Announcing support equals! char - charm - the same in Bulgarian= Flame-able sprout/interiors!cha-rapa - sock in Bulgarian is "cho-rap"= Flame-able arm skies!(Look trough it) cha-robniak - wizard= Flame-able root orders courageous victim and equality! cha-rshav - sheet, same in Bulgarian= Flame-able sprout jokes obedience! chas - moment =Flame-able presence! cha-stan - honorable /che-sten in Bulg./= Flame-able presence beauties mother's! cha-so-pis - journal, magazine= Flame-able house drinks presence!cha-st - honor /che-st in Bulg/= Flame-able presence dreams! cha-vka - jackdaw= Flame-able obedience features! chasa - glass 'the same in Bulg/= Flame-able soldier!ce-znja - to long /the same in Bulg/= Flame-able tongue "nja"?(it is connected with adoption?)che-kaonica - waiting room= Eating feature nests courageous announcement!ce-kati - wait= Eating feature proves innocence!che-kich - hammer= Eating value voices!(Your OUCH=With Your hunger!)
che-lik - steel= Eating light equals!che-lo- forehead /same in Bulg/= Eating draw(line/cut)!che-mu - why= Eating vagina!che-shma - fountain= Eating stone supports! che-tica - fragment= Eating innocence announces!
che-stit - honest= Eating presence proves innocent dream!che-sto - frequently /same in Bulg/= Eating presence shelters!che-stitati - conglatulate= Eating presence proves innocent beauty and innocence!che-sali - comb= Eating soldier lights!(Fork?)(Eating=Feeding)che-sati - scratch= Eating soldier proves innocence!che-sniak - garlic /"che-sun" in Bulg/= Eating presence courages victim-like equality!che-s-che - pretty often= Eating stone feeds! che-titi - 4= Feeding innocence proves innocence!che-tka - brush= Feeding dream features!che-trdeset - 40= Feeding dream sprouts Divine load and dream!che-tvrti -4th= Feeding dream obediences sprouting innocence!che-tvrt - district= Feeding dream obediences sprouting dream!che-snuti - yearn, seek= Feeding tongue(S=Z)starts innocence!chjii, chija, chije - whose, like in Bulg.= Chii=Knowledge;ChiJe=Cognitive ancestor!;ChiJa=Cognitive mortality!
chi-n - fact= Cognitive mother's!(Cognition=singular!)
chi-nienica - fact= Cognitive courage answers courageous announcement!chi-pka - lace= Cognitive liquor(water) features!chi-st - pure= Cognitive presence dreams!chi-tak - readable= Cognitive beauty equals!chi-stka - purge= Cognitive presence dreams feature!chi-tati - read= Cognitive beauty proves innocence!chi-tav - whole= Cognitive beauty obediences!chi-zma - boot= Cognitive tongue supports!(You walk you learn,boots support you)I'll do "cho" and "chu" tomorrow .
Edited by medenaywe - 11-Mar-2012 at 12:09
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Posted: 10-Mar-2012 at 21:49 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
I found some "zd" though in Czech: br-zda - brake=Order-like sprout tongues agreement! This sounds strange that a verb that means destruction with have the word "agreement" in it. The word "order-like" - can you give it to me in some Slavic language? I have to think about that. ode-zd - departur=Nestable Deity tongues gift! To depart from somewhere can be seen as a "gift"; Hermes was the Greek god who watched over people who travel - hence, "deity"; tongues=announces. So, may the "deity" protect you /nesting/ I "announce" your this "gift" to you" - to travel was a very dangerous affair in ancient times, they needed lots of gifts from the divinities so they make it alive.
pra-zd-ni - empty; in Bulgarian the same word became "pra-zen" - the "zd" going into "z" with one lenition=Liquid arm prays mother's!(prazen). When one has nothing /is empty' one pray a lot to all kinds of mother-goddess /since mother-goddess gives fruition/ to give him/her something to fill the emptiness with - whether one talks about material wealth, or children. In Bulgaria "prazna jena" /empty woman/ used to mean woman that have no children - archaic use - her womb is empty. ji-zd-ne - fare=(Dji=ji?) I suppose it can be seen like that "dji" is on one fortition step from "ji"; one step change is very easy to make in one language, let alone when passing from one language to another. Now "prazen chovek" means a person with no real ideas and aims in life, one who roams around like "ant without head" and has no value. zde - here=Tongue-like Deity
I found this is Roma language: bu-tji- possession - "tj" is a one lenition step from "dz"=Lovely dream pluralizes! Very fitting - people have lovely dreams about wealth, and plural stands for "more, much" wealth. dzo-lana
and djo-lano, - both in use for "mule"; in this word can be see how
easy is for "dz" to pass into "dj". Maybe you can use "dj" words for
"dz"? mi-dj-lo-li- erection=Peaceful animal draws light! I like the "draws light" phrase - it goes well with "between two people there is only light"; animal - OK, sex is animalistic, it's supposed to be like that; peace is one that creates, war only destroys; hence a creative organ has to be "peaceful". min-dj - female genitals=Peaceful mother's animal! If genitals are seen as "peaceful animal" then the female one would be "peaceful mother's animal" - since the mothers have in. I had used some animals as metaphors for sexually important bodily parts in poems.
su-man-dji - family heirloom=Hungry support mother's beasts!(beast verb?) Verb for beast - "beasting; beasting out" /but this one is my poetic creation, I don't know how gramatically correct it is. In many African cultures women had been bought with cows; "beast" was used for domesticated animals in up to 20 century English. One was hungry in ancient times if one doesn't have any family heirlooms. thrushal o-dji - hungry soul=Dreaming arrow hands joking spark and nestable beast! In Bulgaria they say "Hungry hen dreams about wheat" - we dream about what we don't have /Jung actually considered the dreams being a compensatory mechanism, that restore our psychological balance - like all my dreams happen in Bulgaria/; so what one needs and don't have, and is hungry for, oen dreams about, and has the feeling of spark/energy, and feels contented/"nested".
Te shordjol muri godji sar shordjol kadi bera - May my brains flow out the way this beer flows out if Te shordjol muro rat - May my blood spill=Predictive riddle sprouts (animal nest word?!?)sparkand vaginal root dreams! Animal nest=lair. This is some kind of swearing, /like - may by blood spill if I lie/; so the result of the lying would be "predictable"one would spill his/her blood; the vaginal root thing may refer to the female monthly, which is a good reference to blood-spilling; in ancient societies women were considered polluted when in it and were isolated in a special hut - so I suppose this would be a threat any men would be terrified of. djezbe - little conical coffee pot with long handle, the same word is used in Bulgarian=Defensive tongue promises! The long handle of the pot look juts like a tongue, it's defensive because it stays cool while the coffee is brewing and one can hold it without burning one's hand; the promis eis on delicious fresh coffee. My favorite grandma in Shumen used to make what she called "Turksih coffee" - the freshly ground coffee is mixed with teh same amount of baked and ground garbanzo bean, then it's heated slowly until think foam forms on the top and starts growing up - when the foam reaches the rim of the "djezbe" one removes the pot from the fire, places some foam in the coffee cups, then pours the coffee on - it was so delicious, and aromatic! then one drinks it with a glass of cold water. I miss that coffee so much.
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Good fitting images, Master of Meaning . Picture of "djezbe" with it's hadle-tongue
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 10-Mar-2012 at 23:43 |
Originally posted by Don Quixote
I'm browsing the Bosnian dict now. So far I haven't found words with "dz", but there are quite a few with "ch" /it's written as "c" with a "hat" but I have way to present the hat, so I'll write it as "ch"/: chai - tea=smoke Hot tea is "smoking". chai-nik - teapot=Smoking courage equals! It requires courage to lift a jot teapot full of hot steaming tea. cha-k - even=Flame-able equality! All 'equality' has to be fought out, hence it's flame-able. camak - boat=Announcing support equals! A boat would turn over of it's not supported equally from the both sides. char - charm - the same in Bulgarian=Flame-able interior! A charming person is called charming because he/she make others to "flame" from their "interior". cha-rapa - sock in Bulgarian is "cho-rap"=Flame-able arm skies!(Look trough it) A sock kinda looks like an arm. cha-robniak - wizard=Flame-able root orders courageous victim and equality! Wizards were knwing all kinds of "roots", to be a good wizard one has to sacrifice one's life to it, and be courageous - there are all kinds of stories about Celtic wizards that can testify to it.
cha-rshav - sheet, same in Bulgarian=Flame-able sprout jokes obedience! I guess this can be seen as reference to sexual activity - "flame-able sprout" is self explanatory, and the obedience may be connected with the missionary position, but only in a joke because it's not really obedience, just a pretended one. chas - moment=Flame-able presence! The presence of time - it's always with us and it's flame-able because it eats everything, as you referenced in a riddle recently. cha-stan - honorable /che-sten in Bulg./=Flame-able presence beauties mother's! Honor is something one gets hot very fast over and fights to defend; especially when someone insults his/her mother /like in Bulgaria the most common curse/insult is referencing sexual activity with the mother of whoever is cursed/, so then there is a fight, a hot one, for the "presence" of one's "mother" to be always "beautiful", not polluted. cha-so-pis - journal, magazine=Flame-able house drinks presence! Magazines are read in home, and many of them feature homes, so they are "present" in "houses". cha-st - honor /che-st in Bulg/=Flame-able presence dreams! Honor is a "flame"-able issue, and a "dream", and has to be existing in the "present". cha-vka - jackdaw=Flame-able obedience features! I'm not sure about that, a jackdaw is a type pf crow, I don't know how to connect it, give me an idea.
chasa - glass 'the same in Bulg/=Flame-able soldier! Glass is made with flame, and a good soldier can withstand the heat/flame of a battle/
ce-znja - to long /the same in Bulg/=Flame-able tongue "nja"?(it is connected with adoption?) I don't know about adoption, in Bulgarian "to adopt" it "osi-no-via". To long for a child, and to adopt one - this may be a connection. Otherwise, one can feel hi mouth burning from longing in certain ways of longing.
che-kaonica - waiting room=Eating feature nests courageous announcement! When one is waiting in a doctor's waiting room and waits to be called, to be "announced" so to speak, one can feel anxious and hence needs courage. ce-kati - wait=Eating feature proves innocence! In fairy tales and legends when one has to prove his/her worth, patience /the ability to wait/ is one of the character traits that is most frequantly testes; when one proves it, he/she is considered worthy="innocent", in many cultures. che-kich - hammer=Eating value voices!(Your OUCH=With Your hunger!) When one hit's his/her funger, and gets vocal about it - OK; but where is the "eating" in all of that? che-lik - steel=Eating light equals! Well worked steel blade reflect light like a mirror, and eats living creatures' lives by killing them. che-lo- forehead /same in Bulg/=Eating draw(line/cut)! The hair-line on my forehead = "bangs" have to be cut like every other week, otherwise it gets in my eyes. che-mu - why=Eating vagina! Why, oh why? /this is what one is asking herself after some wild abandon after one had fallen heel-over-feet for someone and preformed the abovementioned act; the taking part on the female organ can be described as "eating", particularly in it's convulsive part/. che-shma - fountain=Eating stone supports! Fountains are usually made of stone, and support the water coming from. che-tica - fragment=Eating innocence announces! A fragment of the whole is announcing" the whole; but what the eating innocence has to do with anything? Maybe that when one part is taken off the whole it;s not a whole anymore, and hence not innocent.
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I'll comment on the rest tomorrow. I'm with lavender now I hope it's easy enough to read, if it's not, tell me so I change it.
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medenaywe
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Posted: 11-Mar-2012 at 01:47 |
There is a story for kids about jackdaw nest full with glittering objects:Jewelery of all kinds!Chavka is thief that likes "Flame-able obedience" and features itself with it at home! Languages as we know today were changed not so far from today:middle ages or in 16-17 century.Books&Newspapers made the rest.
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