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No English Reformation
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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: No English Reformation
    Posted: 27-Nov-2011 at 19:26
In this alternative history Catherine of Aragon dies before Henry requests his divorce, leaving him free to remarry. As a result England remains Catholic. What would the consequences have been?
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Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2011 at 19:45
I don't really know much about the British renaissance period but would it have meant that there wouldn't have been Puritans which would have some major effect on when the pilgrims would settle in America. I could be mistaken.
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2011 at 20:04
my foresight
*add minumum 100 years to all english inventions' date of invent
*scotish culture could be less powerful in that time. with same religion, they could be assimilated easily in english society
*vatican and german catholics could be more powerful then today.
*catholic (and more submissive) American colonies could not or late prefer to be independent. 
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Posts: 1748 		  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2011 at 05:19
The reformation would have been delayed rather not happen. Cromwell and the Bolyns would still have been in power and pushing reformation along, and the prostetants in the country were numerous and powerful.
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2011 at 08:16
Pope will be Englishman!Wink
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2011 at 19:05
Originally posted by Toltec

The reformation would have been delayed rather not happen. Cromwell and the Bolyns would still have been in power and pushing reformation along, and the prostetants in the country were numerous and powerful.

Would they have succeeded if Henry remained bound to Rome? Without the schism there wouldn't have been a Church of England and many of the later reformers would probably have been burned as heretics. Perhaps it would be Cranmer, rather than Pole, who had to flee into exile?
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Posts: 1748 		  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2011 at 20:22
It happened in Scandinvia, Scotland and German States.
Even if Elizabeth was a catholic, could the protestant James be kept from the throne? In fact would a protestant rebellion aided by a Scots army have overthrown Mary or Elizabeth.
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2011 at 08:18
Originally posted by medenaywe

Pope will be Englishman!Wink

I'm not too sure where I heard this, but after, Pope Adrian IV, those choosing popes were put off the idea of having an English pope again. Something about insanity I think, or maybe even things being done in an insane way. 
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Posts: 1748 		  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2011 at 08:31
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by medenaywe

Pope will be Englishman!Wink

I'm not too sure where I heard this, but after, Pope Adrian IV, those choosing popes were put off the idea of having an English pope again. Something about insanity I think, or maybe even things being done in an insane way. 
 
Homosexuality, corruption, debauchery, treachury, perversion, incest, senility, heresy, greed, being married, murder, rape, buggery, being born a women, genocide, paedophilia and there already being another pope, has never stopped someone being chosen as pope, I would have thought an insane pope would come as a mild relief.


Edited by Toltec - 29-Nov-2011 at 08:34
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2011 at 09:15
No Anglo-Turkish piracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Turkish_piracy
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2011 at 09:25
Maradona captain of football team and Pele it's couch!
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2011 at 19:04
Originally posted by medenaywe

Pope will be Englishman!Wink

Cardinal Pole was a possibility. With the backing of Henry and Cardinal Fisher, it's possible he would one day become pope
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2011 at 19:33
Originally posted by Toltec

It happened in Scandinvia, Scotland and German States.
Even if Elizabeth was a catholic, could the protestant James be kept from the throne? In fact would a protestant rebellion aided by a Scots army have overthrown Mary or Elizabeth.

Even after the Marian Persecutions a lot of ordinary Englishmen were largely indifferent to religion before the Spanish Armada. Assuming this never happened, there would be deep divisions between the Catholic English and Protestant Scots which would worsen after James' death. Rather than a Civil War, the English might have enthusiastically supported Charles' invasion of Scotland to force Catholicism upon the Calvinists


Edited by Nick1986 - 30-Nov-2011 at 19:33
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2011 at 19:48
Less jewish people in Britain as in Spain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2011 at 19:17
During Henry's reign Jews were almost nonxistent. Most had been expelled under Edward I and those who stayed had long since converted to Christianity (or at least publicly proclaimed themselves Christian while continuing to practise their religion in secret)
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2011 at 19:47
Originally posted by Nick1986

During Henry's reign Jews were almost nonxistent. Most had been expelled under Edward I and those who stayed had long since converted to Christianity (or at least publicly proclaimed themselves Christian while continuing to practise their religion in secret)


ok, so  it doesn't relevant with reforms. I got it Big smile
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