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Monsters in Uniform
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Azita View Drop Down
Pretorian
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Posts: 162 		  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Monsters in Uniform
    Posted: 01-Nov-2012 at 05:26
using the Amristar/jallianwala analogy would US generals james conway and Richard Natonski  fall into the same category as monster in uniform after the huge civilian deaths in Fallujah?

even ordering the use of chemical weapons on civilians.

Or is it simply  c`est la guerre?

 
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Salah ad-Din View Drop Down
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Posts: 138 		  Quote Salah ad-Din Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2012 at 14:34
My cousin is an American soldier.  He must be a monster in uniform too!
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2012 at 14:43
Peace with you Salah ad-Din.Both of you just have different angle of view on actual events.SmileRegards.
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2012 at 14:50
Originally posted by Azita

using the Amritsar/jallianwala analogy would US generals james conway and Richard Natonski  fall into the same category as monster in uniform after the huge civilian deaths in Fallujah?

even ordering the use of chemical weapons on civilians.

Or is it simply  c`est la guerre?

 



 
 
Probably not...as this is a case of apples and oranges...tho controversy over the use of incendiaries in possible violation of Proto. 3, CWC 80 treaty, remains an issue.  Internal investigations were determinate that no violation occurred...viz the charges of indiscriminate use or targeting of civilians in general. Fallujah has been defined as a battle between two armed opponent forces not an indiscriminate-discriminate (depends on viewpoint) massacre of unarmed civilians protesting Raj policies. Interestingly, but whats not often reported, was that insurgents and foreign mujahideen forces involved were also in violation of the code in the use of civilians and civilian infrastructure as shields.
 
And to be absolutely correct this was not a US specific op...but a coalition. So an effort to broad brush paint it as such, by anyone, falls short. For in theory and in practice; had the UN convened a WC investigation, it would have been inclusive of all force commanders down to platoon level of all forces involved.


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 01-Nov-2012 at 14:56
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2012 at 08:42
Besides his official duties of photographing Auschwitz's prisoners, Wilhelm Brasse also recorded the sadistic Nazis who abused them. These were dug up after the war and used in the Nuremberg trials
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224026/The-photographer-Auschwitz-Man-forced-chilling-images-Jewish-prisoners-haunted-death-94.html
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 11:24
The Nazis took pride in killing and abusing prisoners. They were convinced such atrocities strengthened Germany
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2236916/Not-just-following-orders--Nazi-prison-camp-bosses-took-pride-doing-new-study-claimed.html


Edited by Nick1986 - 24-Nov-2012 at 11:25
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2012 at 07:41
Hans Breyer, an Auschwitz guard with US citizenship:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/23/germany-inquiry-ex-auschwitz-guard
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Azita View Drop Down
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Posts: 162 		  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2012 at 09:25
Well indeed Nick.

If we are going in that direction then how about.

Shiro-ishii



still i suppose better than Stalin having him.
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Rocky View Drop Down
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Posts: 46 		  Quote Rocky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2012 at 20:06
What of this man?

I was trying to post a picture of Idi Amin, but I am having technical difficulties.Cry


Edited by Rocky - 27-Nov-2012 at 20:31
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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 07:37
Originally posted by Rocky

What of this man?

I was trying to post a picture of Idi Amin, but I am having technical difficulties.Cry

Shiro Ishi was Japan's equivalent to Joseph Mengele: a sick, twisted monster who experimented on live victims for fun
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2012 at 07:53

Idi Amin: the Adolf Hitler of Africa
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2012 at 16:05
Good choice.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2013 at 18:06

Obama &amp; Gaddafi by LZ-128, on Flickr
Muammar Gadaffi - a brutal dictator who killed hundreds of his own people and supplied the IRA with weapons
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2013 at 19:01
Originally posted by Rocky

What of this man?

I was trying to post a picture of Idi Amin, but I am having technical difficulties.Cry
 
Yup he was a real corker eh.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 14-Jan-2013 at 19:04
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2013 at 08:44
OK Azita, tell us everything you know about Allied atrocities
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Azita View Drop Down
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Posts: 162 		  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2013 at 09:27
Originally posted by Nick1986

OK Azita, tell us everything you know about Allied atrocities


Oh! Nick.

It seems that this would inflame some of the members here, mentioning these atrocities seems to be a greater sin than the crimes themselves.

I already feel bad about Salah a din, i should not have responded to his challenge.

I don't want to be flippant and just cut and paste the comment i left on the "Japanese crimes" thread.
i was in fact going to delete it, in response to your reproach, but as you had quoted it in its entirety there didn't seem much point. Ouch

Azita
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2013 at 12:14
Originally posted by Azita

Originally posted by Nick1986

OK Azita, tell us everything you know about Allied atrocities


Oh! Nick.

It seems that this would inflame some of the members here, mentioning these atrocities seems to be a greater sin than the crimes themselves.

I already feel bad about Salah a din, i should not have responded to his challenge.

I don't want to be flippant and just cut and paste the comment i left on the "Japanese crimes" thread.
i was in fact going to delete it, in response to your reproach, but as you had quoted it in its entirety there didn't seem much point. Ouch

Azita


 
 
Correct. You should not have. But it's done.
 
Consequently....Salah's infraction or the consequences of it... is not yours to concern yourself with. Other then to report  the original concern by PM, as per the CoC.
 
Iow. It was my action. Not yours.
 
So if you have a problem with that, want to discuss it further or even legitimately bemoan the action, take it PM to another staff member also as per the Co. Don't attempt to get into the business of moderating this forum. That's not your prerogative. And don't attempt to suggest through innuendo or other to include honest regret that it should not have occurred. Because that also is not yours to determine. Nor is it yours to display in open forum..as that would suggest your now attempting to discredit my authority and the individual who gave it to me. And you don't want to do that.
 
But carry on with a response to Nick's query if it's your wish. But I suggest you provide more then accusations of incidents. If there is veracity then cite sources. Then the discussion can be logically analyzed and debated..rejected or accepted..but more importantly, will demonstrate your capable of analytic discussion and not what might be discerned by others as inflammatory rhetoric.
 
CV
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 19-Jan-2013 at 12:20
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2013 at 11:28
Mengele's diary up for auction:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2834578/Nazi-monster-Josef-Mengeles-evil-diary-jottings-to-go-to-auction.html
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Posts: 121 		  Quote Marlin47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2013 at 03:44
I have made a lifelong study of both "The Troubles " and Civil War of Ireland . I have painstakingly built up a significant library of many books on these subjects, and I can tell you categorically and without equivocation , that absolutely NOTHING ever done by the "Black and Tans " remotely resembles the actions of even the most restrained and disciplined SS unit, let alone that commanded by Dirlewanger.

Your comparison of the "Tans " with any SS unit is misguided at best or malicious at worst.  I must ask you, please, to cite any actions of the " Tans " that you believe supports your assertions.  Failing that, if you are a contributor with any integrity at all, you really should remove your scurrilous comment to that effect.  Please take into account that there are millions of people who are impressionable and who will otherwise  believe what you say to be correct.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2013 at 08:10
Originally posted by Marlin47

I have made a lifelong study of both "The Troubles " and Civil War of Ireland . I have painstakingly built up a significant library of many books on these subjects, and I can tell you categorically and without equivocation , that absolutely NOTHING ever done by the "Black and Tans " remotely resembles the actions of even the most restrained and disciplined SS unit, let alone that commanded by Dirlewanger.

Your comparison of the "Tans " with any SS unit is misguided at best or malicious at worst.  I must ask you, please, to cite any actions of the " Tans " that you believe supports your assertions.  Failing that, if you are a contributor with any integrity at all, you really should remove your scurrilous comment to that effect.  Please take into account that there are millions of people who are impressionable and who will otherwise  believe what you say to be correct.

Users like Michael Collins might disagree with you. The Tans' revenge killings of IRA sympathisers (though on a smaller scale than German atrocities in Poland) were intended to terrorise the population into submission. There are reports of Tans torturing prisoners, mistreating defenceless civilians, and shooting indiscriminately. They were nowhere near as bad as the Germans in WWII, but they were still monsters for their brutality:
http://theirishwar.com/organizations/black-tans/
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