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Gunpowder Plot succeeds
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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gunpowder Plot succeeds
    Posted: 05-Nov-2011 at 11:12

In this alternative history the watchmen fail to stop Guy Fawkes in time and he blows up the king and parliament. Would the popular teenaged Henry IX become king, what policies would he implement, and who would be regent until he came of age? Or would he and Cha-Cha-Charles be assassinated and a foreign ruler or Plantagenet nobleman invited to take power?
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Posts: 12 		  Quote Starsucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2011 at 14:29

How would history be different if the plot had worked?

I certainly think that England would have been devastated to the point that they wouldn't have been able to become a major force in the New World-- leaving either the French or Spanish to have it all. I'm not sure which one of those two would have won out.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2011 at 20:16

Henry Frederick, the boy who would have been king had he not predeceased his father. Assuming Henry IX lived into adulthood, who would he marry, what religious views would he hold, and what would happen to his father's killers?
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Posts: 13 		  Quote Bill Cobbett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2011 at 15:07
Originally posted by Nick1986


In this alternative history the watchmen fail to stop Guy Fawkes in time and he blows up the king and parliament. Would the popular teenaged Henry IX become king, what policies would he implement, and who would be regent until he came of age? Or would he and Cha-Cha-Charles be assassinated and a foreign ruler or Plantagenet nobleman invited to take power?
Is the poster ironic?
 
The thought of GF being some uber libertarian is laughable; one thing he was not interested in was democracy; he set out to destroy democracy and as many innocent lives as possible.
GF had spent most of his life fighting for Spain to destroy the Dutch and the aim of GF, the Wintours, the Wrights, Catesby, Percy &c was the utter destruction of English democracy and the imposition of the yoke of Spain. How this was achieved did not matter to them; neither did their choice of puppet. Whether Henry Frederick, Arbella Stuart or the Spanish Infanta, they didn't care, just as long as England was catholic again.
One thing none of them had was an honest intention!
 
[With regard to 'Plantagenet noblemen'. Were there any left? Smile]
 
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2011 at 20:49
Naturally the poster is ironic: it mocks our politicians as liars who seek to ruin the country but don't have the integrity to tell the voters. I believe the Plantagenet line survived in several ancient aristocratic families who married illegitimate children of Henry's predecessors (and offspring of Henry himself). With a strong army, a popular-uprising, the support of the church and a foreign power a pretender could potentially legitimise his ancestor and claim the throne
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Posts: 1748 		  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2011 at 04:33
I think the main loss had the plot succeeded would not have been anything to do with James or the governemnt, but to world civilisation as Francis Bacon would have been present when the blast took place.
 
The blast has been reconstructed by the british army here,
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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Posts: 13 		  Quote Bill Cobbett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2011 at 12:52
Originally posted by Nick1986

Naturally the poster is ironic: it mocks our politicians as liars who seek to ruin the country but don't have the integrity to tell the voters. I believe the Plantagenet line survived in several ancient aristocratic families who married illegitimate children of Henry's predecessors (and offspring of Henry himself). With a strong army, a popular-uprising, the support of the church and a foreign power a pretender could potentially legitimise his ancestor and claim the throne
I know it is mocking our politicians; that is obv. that is not the fail.
The fail is the lack of depth of historical knowledge that holds GF up as a man with honest intentions; as a man with sufficient integrity that he might look down upon the current incumbants of the house. Neither of which is true.
The irony I was looking for would involve your knowing this but using GF as a model democrat anyway. As a recent delurked newbie I wondered if I had missed a running in-joke.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2011 at 19:13
Originally posted by Toltec

I think the main loss had the plot succeeded would not have been anything to do with James or the governemnt, but to world civilisation as Francis Bacon would have been present when the blast took place.
 
The blast has been reconstructed by the british army here,

Which other leading scholars would have perished in the explosion and how would their demise affect modern science?
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2012 at 10:29
And how would Catholics have been treated under Henry IX?
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2012 at 10:39
Originally posted by Nick1986

And how would Catholics have been treated under Henry IX?
 
Ya talking Fitzroy or Henry Carey from Mary B?
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2012 at 11:51
Henry Stuart, son of the late King James
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2012 at 18:53
In that case probably not much.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2012 at 12:36
Would Henry persecute the wider Catholic community in revenge for his father's death?
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2012 at 20:14
Doubtful.
The King was not a victim of assassination or regicide as his son Charles would be.The Prince was a true blue Port no doubt....but there's little to assume he would have done that. Unless he was seeking to confirm the execution of his own grandmother...Mary. And there doesn't appear to have been a need. ER saw to the very complete adoption of the faith. He remained staunchly an adherent until his death. His independence from his father was enough to show his own probable designs as monarch. 
 
A popular and well received young man....He would have been better then his brother if no other reason then he would have sought a prot queen. No 'closet' catholic was he.
 
Hold him dear because thru his Mother...he brought the Danish Viking heritage back into the blood line.Wink


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 05-Nov-2012 at 20:17
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2014 at 22:28
Originally posted by Nick1986

Henry Frederick, the boy who would have been king had he not predeceased his father. Assuming Henry IX lived into adulthood, who would he marry, what religious views would he hold, and what would happen to his father's killers?


What an amazing painting! He looks a lot more like a she here!!!

And upon just whose standard or plaque is he/she standing upon?

Can anyone read it?

I am always amazed that what is revealed in front of you eyes is mostly ignored via your concentration on only the words!
Ron

Edited by opuslola - 26-Jan-2014 at 22:32
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 690 		  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2014 at 18:33
Two more paintings of Prince Henry, by the same artist (Robert Peake)





Edited by Sidney - 27-Jan-2014 at 18:34
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2014 at 22:47
A cute little beauty, with good legs and a big-ass!

This has to be a fe-male impersonating a male?

No guy could pull of these paintings, but perhaps she
did "pull off" a few of the artists? Smile!

Mini-skirt, any one? Smile

Ron

Edited by opuslola - 08-Mar-2014 at 22:49
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 690 		  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2014 at 16:20
If you are suggesting that you consider this boy, aged 16 or even under in these paintings, as a sexual object, you should think carefully before declaring it on a public forum.





Edited by Sidney - 09-Mar-2014 at 16:21
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