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Habemus Papal

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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Habemus Papal
    Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 15:10

We have a Pope! 

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was recently elected Pope.  Choosing the name Benidict XVI he mad his way into St. Peters Square and gave his blessing.  Whether you are Chatholic or not, pray that he may lead as Pope John Paul II did!

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  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 04:39
it's "habemus Papam"
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  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 07:43

More to the topic substance, I found what I think is a very interesting article:

Vatican enforcer has soft side, too

But some dub him 'God's Rottweiler'

By HELEN KENNEDY
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Joseph Ratzinger in 1932
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger celebrates Mass in southern Germany in 1952.
The former Cardinal is now a bestselling author.
He has been dubbed "God's Rottweiler," "der Panzerkardinal," "the German Shepherd" and "Cardinal No."

He's widely seen the Vatican's enforcer, an authoritarian hardliner on church doctrine who excommunicates theologians with controversial ideas and opposes any modernization in the church.

But Joseph Ratzinger of Bavaria, now the new Pope, Benedict XVI, also is widely described by those who know him as a modest, gentle man with a shy smile, a large intellect and a ready handshake.

And the man who appeared on a balcony yesterday with a beam so bright it lit up the whole Square of St. Peter hardly looked like the Vatican's feared hatchet man.

"I think it would be wise for everyone to check their conceptions of Cardinal Ratzinger at the door because all bets are now off," said Vatican expert Rocco Palmo.

"In his job [as the Church's doctrinal watchdog] he became a controversial figure," Palmo added, "but the 'Panzer cardinal' is not going to become the 'Panzer Papa.'"

The two sides of Ratzinger were on display to the world this week.

First, he choked up during his elegant, eloquent eulogy for John Paul II. Then he delivered such a fire-and-brimstone fundamentalist rant to the cardinals that many thought he had killed his chances to ever don the papal mitre.

Ratzinger and John Paul shared the same conservative views, but their public styles couldn't be more different.

Ratzinger biographer John Allen has explained it this way: "John Paul II plays the part of Ronald Reagan to Ratzinger's Pat Buchanan."

Because of his thick German accent when speaking Italian, his severe enforcement of dogma and his onetime membership in the Hitler Youth, Ratzinger has often been unfairly lampooned as a Nazi.

But he has strong fans among Jewish leaders, who say he was behind John Paul's unprecedented efforts to reconcile with Jews.

"He is the architect of the ideological policy to recognize, to have full relations, with Israel," said Rabbi Israel Singer, chairman of the World Jewish Congress.

Born in 1927 in Marktl am Inn, Germany, Ratzinger's parents were named Joseph and Mary. He was a rural cop and she was a cook.

Ratzinger entered a seminary in the city of Traunstein at the age of 12, was conscripted into an anti-aircraft battery in the last months of the war and then returned to the seminary. He was ordained in 1951 and taught theology for years.

Ironically, Ratzinger was a liberal reformer when he served in 1962 as a consultant during Vatican II to Cardinal Frings of Cologne. The 1968 student revolutions turned him into a staunch conservative, and he has bemoaned Vatican II's changes in the liturgy.

In 1977, Ratzinger was appointed bishop of Munich and was elevated to cardinal three months later.

John Paul II named him head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1981, where he was responsible for enforcing Catholic orthodoxy as Catholics in Europe and America began calling for women priests, birth control, gay rights and other modernisms.

The new Pope plays piano daily, is devoted to Mozart, speaks six languages, including English, and is well-known to the Vatican press corps and church leaders around the world.

"It would be hard to find a Catholic controversy in the past 20 years that did not somehow involve Joseph Ratzinger," Allen wrote.

"He is very sweet - and very dangerous," Swiss theologian Hans Kung once said, after Ratzinger had Kung - his onetime mentor - forced out of a professorship for questioning the infallibility of the Pope.

Ratzinger has made headlines for ordering books destroyed and excommunicating theologians who strayed from what he considers the true faith.

But he also helped draft John Paul's extraordinary 1998 apology for the Catholic Church's historical failings and misdeeds.

Until his elevation to Pope, Ratzinger lived in a small apartment just outside one of the Vatican gates, walking to work unnoticed every day through the crowds of tourists milling in St. Peter's square.

Many who have met him remark on his humble demeanor. the Rev. Patrick Ryan of Blessed Sacrament Church in Paterson, N.J., was visiting the Vatican in 1999 when he asked what he thought was another priest for directions to a tomb.

The priest took Ryan there, and as he brushed away the dirt and vines, Ryan saw a flash of red beneath his long black overcoat - and realized it was no ordinary priest.

"You are Cardinal Ratzinger!," Ryan recalled saying yesterday. "He answered a simple, 'Yes.'

"He was a very humble priest who was helping someone who was lost."

With Alison Gendar

Hitler Youth dogged his career

By HELEN KENNEDY
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Joseph Ratzinger's past membership in the Hitler Youth has dogged his whole career.

It's a bad rap.

The son of a rural cop in Germany, Ratzinger was 6 when Hitler came to power in 1933. Ratzinger has said his father was a critic of the Nazis and the family had to move four times before he was 10.

When he was 14, his school signed him up in the Hitler Youth when membership became compulsory but he soon managed to bow out because of his enrollment in seminary.

"Ratzinger was only briefly a member of the Hitler Youth and not an enthusiastic one," biographer John Allen wrote.

At 16, he was drafted into a Nazi anti-aircraft unit, along with many other boys who were too young to be sent to the front.

He went to Munich where he defended a BMW plant that used workers sent from the Dachau concentration camp.

Ratzinger deserted as the war was ending in April 1945 and went home to Traunstein. After avoiding being shot by the Germans, he was then taken captive by the Americans, spending several weeks as a POW before being reunited with his parents and brothers.

American Jewish leaders largely praised Ratzinger yesterday as a key figure in improved Catholic-Jewish relations and said there is no Nazi taint.

"The new Pope, like his predecessor, was deeply influenced by the events of World War II," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder and dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. "He grew up in an anti-Nazi family. Nonetheless he was forced to join the Hitler Youth movement."

And "all his life Cardinal Ratzinger has atoned for the fact," said Anti-Defamation League President Abe Foxman.

With Celeste Katz

Oh, and he's a best-selling author

He's not just the new leader of the world's 1 billion Catholics - he's also suddenly a best-selling author.

Demand for former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger's many books skyrocketed yesterday after he became Pope Benedict XVI.

"We're being overwhelmed with orders," said Anthony Ryan, director of marketing for his English-language publisher, Ignatius Press.

The new pontiff has written more than 30 books, and a translation of the second volume of his memoirs is currently in the works.

Several of the titles hit Amazon's best seller list within hours of the announcement yesterday, and some volumes were sold out by afternoon.

  • "Pilgrim Fellowship of Faith: The Church as Communion" (not released yet)

  • "Truth and Tolerance: Christian Belief and World Religion"

  • "The End of Time?: The Provocation of Talking about God"

  • "God is Near Us: The Eucharist, the Heart of Life"

  • "Many Religions, One Covenant: Israel, the Church, and the World"

  • "The Spirit of the Liturgy"

  • "Milestones: Memoirs 1927-1977"

  • "Call to Communion: Understanding the Church Today"

  • "In the Beginning ...' A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall"

  • "Introduction to Christianity"

    Sheryl Connelly and Paul D. Colford

    Bet you didn't know

  • He was born on a holy Saturday and notes he was baptized with the newly blessed Easter holy water.

  • He has excommunicated dozens of people, including seven women who took part in a simulated ordination, a Vietnamese archbishop and theologians who questioned church teachings.

  • He has an online fan club (Motto: "Putting the smackdown on heresy since 1981.")

  • He has called rock 'n' roll evil, saying it is full of "diabolical and satanic messages." He singled out the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Queen and the Eagles as especially evil.

  • He can be funny. Asked once whether the Vatican would operate better in Germany, he responded, "What a disaster! The church would be too organized."

    Originally published on April 20, 2005
  • Source:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/301720p-258307c.html

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      Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 17:48
    Ratzinger will be a total disaster for the Catholic Church in Latin America.
    He closed the seminar in Puebla, Mexico due " theological deviations " and removed a large number of parish and bishops symaptetic with the Ideology of Liberation.

    I would say that the Catholic Church will lose 10% of believers in Latin America over the next decade. Ratzinger is a backward , right wing , pro-Opus Dei.

    I'm a Catholic, but I do not believe on the Pope's infability. I hope this guy may quit in the next 3 or 5 years. The Catholic Church needs to reinvent herself and even call to another Vatican Council.
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      Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 19:16

    The Church does not need to re work itself.  When we do that, that is when the Pope loses infaliblity.

    He is going to do many new things that are going to seem bad to some but in the long run it will be for the better.  He is just going to be a more harsh extention of Pope John Paul the Great!

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      Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 23:12


    General: you have no idea what are you talking about.

    When the Council Vatican reformed the mass by allowing the national language instead of latin was a reinvention.

    The Church needs to recognize her needs of reinvention and adaptation otherwise it will become anachronic and will not be a reflect of today's societity.

    Back in 16, 17 and 18 centuries no blacks or indians were alowed to become parish. The Church changed that.

    Plus, the Pope's infability dogma has to be removed. No way someone goes all over the world stating that because he was elected by a Conclave his the Holder of all the Truth.

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      Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 10:13
    Besides, the pope is only infallible on matters of faith and morals when he speaks ex-cathedra. This means that the pope is not infallible most of the time.

    The church can change many things without coming in conflict with the revealed truths. The Roman Church gave up having services in Greek. The mass in Latin was the Church adapting to the social realities of the time. The Vulgata Bible was another example of the Church adapting. The Council of Trent brought major changes to the Church too. In none of these cases was orthdoxy ever challanged. It can be done.
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      Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 15:20

    Originally posted by Jalisco Lancer


    I would say that the Catholic Church will lose 10% of believers in Latin America over the next decade. Ratzinger is a backward , right wing , pro-Opus Dei.

    I thought Opus Dei isnt bad organisation. They sponsor good schools all over the wolrd and Mexicans are very influential in Opus Dei.

    Why you dislike them?

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      Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 16:28
    Opus Dei has a strong association with right-wing fascism in Mexico. The fact that the movement flourished in Spain with Franco's blessing does not make it any better.

    The organization is popularly believed to be one too closely associated with rich and powerful individuals.

    All of the above are the common beliefs about this organization in Mexico. I don't know if they are true, but people there believe it to be true.
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      Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 16:57
    Originally posted by Mosquito

    Originally posted by Jalisco Lancer

    I would say that the Catholic Church will lose 10% of believers in Latin America over the next decade. Ratzinger is a backward , right wing , pro-Opus Dei.


    I thought Opus Dei isnt bad organisation. They sponsor good schools all over the wolrd and Mexicans are very influential in Opus Dei.


    Why you dislike them?



    Legionarios de Cristo, Opus Dei, Caballeros de Colon are all the same. Rich people trying to buy the heaven.
    Plus, they descredit completelly to the original message of the Church.

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      Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 18:13
    well, such intensive world wide activity requires a lot of monay. But to say the truth i dont know how they really are. One of my friends who is very familliar with the local catholic church (he is the lawyer who also represents local archbishop and diecesia) says that they are going to make new class of people, well educated (in schools sponsored by Opus Dei), rich and potentially influential in the future, who will be big politics and buissnesmen of the future, helping the church and trying to make moral rules of catholicism part of the state law. Altough i dont know if he was saying somthing he really knew or just repeating rumours (he always pretends to be very well informed and is trying to impress me so i use to divide everything he says by 10).
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      Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 19:21
    Those are some of the rumors that circulate in Mexico too. That they pick someone to polish with education and push them into politics. Again all rumors. I guess one of us can research the subject.
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      Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 20:32

    The Curch needs to make some changes but if we completly rework the Chruch then it would not be the same Catholic faith.  Chanhes in the centuries such as blacks and Indians are different than reworking the Church.  What needs to be changed anyways?  I bet most of it will go against Cathioic faith.

    As for the Popes infalibility, he is not always infalibal.  But when he speaks the word of God he is.  If he speaks his opinion he is not.  He was not just elected by the Conlcave but by the Holy Spirt.

    Enter the Athiests....

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      Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 21:57
    Our arguments so far about infalability are within the Catholic Church. I do not understand your comment about the Athiets. It is strange.

    Yes, the Holy Spirit helped the cardinals elect Ratzinger, but who are we to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't use Vatican politics as its tool? The Lord works in mysterious ways...

    Here is a short list of changes that has nothing to do with the faith, but would be welcomed by the faithful

    1)Stopping the cover up about priests who sexually abuse children. This has been a big turn off for me. Not that there are perverts in the Church. No organization has perfect screening. But the fact that they have systematically covered it up is very repulsive to most Catholics.

    2) Allow priest to marry or allow female ordination. This would help to ease the priest shortage. I know at least three ex-seminarians who gave up on becoming priests at the last minute because they decided that they liked girls and wanted to form families. Women seem to be really into religion, and many would make wonderful priests. There is no dogmatic doctrine that says they cannot be priests. It is just a custom.

    Any of these two changes would be fine with me. Either one would solved the shortage problem.

    3)Allow for more open expression of Catholicism as long as they are consistent with Orthodoxy. The condemnation of Liberation Theology was one of the most shameful acts of intellectual persecution that the modern Church has done. This was a movement that kept or brought back many leftist Catholics. In most of its versions, it never went against dogmatic principals, unless you want to argue that blessing bloody dictators is an intrinsical part of Catholicism.

    These are just a few. None of these are "radical" changes. All of these would attract more luke-warm Catholics back to the church. I am sure that other Catholic members have special wishes that they feel could increase the number of faithful.

    Edited by hugoestr
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      Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 16:42

    On the other hand if you consider the fact that right now the spanish are enacting new law which will make gay marraiges legal and allow adoption of children by such "couples" maybe Opus Dei is right.

    O tempora, o mores !

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      Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 17:27
    Oh, mosquito!

    Gay people were created that way by god. Rejecting them is rejecting god's creation.

    Besides, I am sure that the gay marriage that Spain will grant is just a civil marriage. No one is forcing the Catholic Church to accept them. Hey, they don't recognize ANY marriage outside of the Church.

    But this is a topic for another thread. You are welcome to start it if you want to further discuss this issue.

    Maybe this means that the power that Opus Dei allegedly has is nonsense.
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      Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 22:02
    I found the site for Opus Dei.

    www.opusdei.org

    It is not the super-secret, leader-makers that we imagined I was afraid this was the case

    It is just a prosaic group of Catholics who want to live their religion in their daily lives. I didn't find anything wrong with it. I actually liked what I found.
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      Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2005 at 06:56
    when you were checking it Hugo, in what language was the site?
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      Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2005 at 11:10
    it was in English. It is the American site for the organization. They may have links to other languages, but I didn't look for them.
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      Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2005 at 11:58
    interesting. Im in Poland and when used your link everything was in polish. They must have smart site.
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