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China is the homeland of Sun/Serpen worship

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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: China is the homeland of Sun/Serpen worship
    Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 08:36
The sun and serpent worships were central to all ancient civilizations before Christ. In Egypt, Sumer, Mesoamerica, sun and serpent were consider to be the most sacred symbols. During the time of ancient Egypt and Sumer, China was in neolithic age, but not cultureless, very few people know that China also worshiped the sun and serpent at the time and even earlier than Sumer and Egypt.
 
The Eye symbol, you may be refer to as the Eye of Ra or Eye of Horus, represents the power over the sun and moon, it was originally the eye of Ra, the supreme serpent god and a sun god. The earliest Eye symbol was not discovered in Egypt, or Sumer, but in China. A turtle shell with an Eye symbol inscripted was found in Jiahu culture, dating from(7000BC), 5000 years before ancient Egypt. The earliest chinese dragon is made of jade, dating from 6000BC, the earliest Sun symbol is from Hemudu culture dating from 5200BC, 2000 years before Sumer and Egypt. The earliest serpent holding god is from Liangzhu culture, dating from 3300BC, 2000years before Viracocha of Incas.
 
China is the homeland of Sun gods that dominated all ancient world.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2011 at 20:09
Any pic of the turtle shell with the eye symbol?
 
 
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2011 at 21:13
 
 
It is seen on the left side of the shell, likely a Left Eye symbolism, in refering to the Left eye of Horus means the benevolent protector, wisdom god.


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 14-Jul-2011 at 21:18
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2011 at 03:06
 
Chinese sun/bird/swastika symbol 5200BC from Hemudu culture.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2011 at 20:06
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

 
......
The earliest serpent holding god is from Liangzhu culture, dating from 3300BC, 2000years before Viracocha of Incas.
 
.......
 
Snake-worship is attested earlier in some other regions.  For example: there were snake cults and snake-deities in the  Vinca culture (Balkan, Europe) and Crete around the 6th/5th millenium BC.
 
 
 
^Vinca and related cultures, Balkan, 6th millenium BC
 

Snake-goddess, Crete, Late Neolithic (ca 5300-4500 BC)

 
Images from: The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: Myths and Cult Images. Marija Gimbutas (2007)
 
 
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Edited by Sander - 16-Jul-2011 at 20:13
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2011 at 05:10
Originally posted by Sander

Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

 
......
The earliest serpent holding god is from Liangzhu culture, dating from 3300BC, 2000years before Viracocha of Incas.
 
.......
 
Snake-worship is attested earlier in some other regions.  For example: there were snake cults and snake-deities in the  Vinca culture (Balkan, Europe) and Crete around the 6th/5th millenium BC.
 
 
 
^Vinca and related cultures, Balkan, 6th millenium BC
 

Snake-goddess, Crete, Late Neolithic (ca 5300-4500 BC)

 
Images from: The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: Myths and Cult Images. Marija Gimbutas (2007)
 
 
Star
 
 
 
Sorry, those from Vinca are arguably not  snakes, no crest no head...
 
Snake god and snake holding god are two different matters.
 
And Vinca is not 6000BC, but 5500BC.
 
The earliest snake with a crest from China is dating from 6600BC:
 
 
 
Serpent gods are supposed to have crests, without crests they are not religious artefacts:
 
Real snake gods are Like this:
 
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2011 at 05:26
There was no white gods to the Americas:
 
Viracocha of the Incas, Southamerica.
 
Meet chinese viracocha, 3300BC:
 
 
Snake holding god: holding 2 snakes on both hands as a guesture of creation, the earliest
snake holding god is from China, 3300BC.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2011 at 19:33
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

 
 
Sorry, those from Vinca are arguably not  snakes, no crest no head...
 
Snake god and snake holding god are two different matters.
 
And Vinca is not 6000BC, but 5500BC.
.....
 
 
The Vinca snake has no head? I m  sure that most people can see the head.
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

The earliest snake with a crest from China is dating from 6600BC:
 
 
 
 
About the above artefact, I can't make a snake out of it. I m not sure what it is but a seahorse seems a better candidate ( see below).
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

 ...... 
 
Serpent gods are supposed to have crests, without crests they are not religious artefacts:
 
Real snake gods are Like this:
..........
 
 
 

I don't know of any law that states that snake-deities or venerated snake objects need to have crests.

Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

...
Snake god and snake holding god are two different matters.
...
Indeed they are different matters. I don't claim that  the Balkan has the earliest snake-holding deities but your overall claim was more or less that China is the homeland of serpent worship. I' m not convinced about that. If the claim is that China has the oldest snake-holding figures I might go along (untill I encounter earlier evidence from elsewhere.)

 

But first we have to check that artefact that is supposed to hold snakes (?) From which period/culture is it and what is a verifiable source to check it?

 
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Edited by Sander - 17-Jul-2011 at 19:45
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2011 at 20:20
Originally posted by Sander

Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

 
 
Sorry, those from Vinca are arguably not  snakes, no crest no head...
 
Snake god and snake holding god are two different matters.
 
And Vinca is not 6000BC, but 5500BC.
.....
 
 
The Vinca snake has no head? I m  sure that most people can see the head.
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

The earliest snake with a crest from China is dating from 6600BC:
 
 
 
 
About the above artefact, I can't make a snake out of it. I m not sure what it is but a seahorse seems a better candidate ( see below).
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

 ...... 
 
Serpent gods are supposed to have crests, without crests they are not religious artefacts:
 
Real snake gods are Like this:
..........
 
 
 

I don't know of any law that states that snake-deities or venerated snake objects need to have crests.

Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

...
Snake god and snake holding god are two different matters.
...
Indeed they are different matters. I don't claim that  the Balkan has the earliest snake-holding deities but your overall claim was more or less that China is the homeland of serpent worship. I' m not convinced about that. If the claim is that China has the oldest snake-holding figures I might go along (untill I encounter earlier evidence from elsewhere.)

 

But first we have to check that artefact that is supposed to hold snakes (?) From which period/culture is it and what is a verifiable source to check it?

 
Star
 
The site found with the serpent jade artefact is 3000KM away from the eastern Coastal area
in inner Mongolia, it is no way a sea horse. If it is a sea horse, it combined with the serpent symbol of the crested snake god.
 
If you take it this way the vinca coil is like
 
 
No head, no crest no snake god. Any culture can make a coiling artefacts but it does not mean they worship the snake. It just like some kinds of earth worm or rope. Yes, ALL snake gods have crest! It is you do not understand this tradition.  The crested serpent is the symbol of true serpent worship. A snake artfact with no crest is just a piece of earthly art with no religious purpose the crest is what makes a snake a god. Just like you make a figurine of a man, or making him crucified on a cross, one is a man, the other is a god.
 
Of course, the dating is correct, 3300BC from Liangzhu Culture, from the earliest layer.
 
The earliest Jade serpent is from Xinglongwa Cultures upper layer, inner Mongolia, 6600BC.
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 17-Jul-2011 at 20:55
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2011 at 20:50
That was definitely NOT a sea horse, the tradition of making crest serpent since 6000BC in China can prove that:
 
4000BC, Hongshan Culture:
 
 
 
Worlds earliest Ouroboros, 3300BC, Dawenkou Culture, middle layer:
 
 
 
They all have crests, having a crest or crown is a sign of being worshipped just like Christ being on a cross. Sea horsea do not have such crests.
 
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2011 at 21:15
Ouroboros symbols from Europe all have crest:
 
 
Egyptian serpent god Wadjet:
 
 
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2011 at 15:28
Well, I would agree that the symbols of the Middle Ages, fit better!

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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2011 at 21:34
 
I checked some things and I’m not happy with what I’ve found out.
 
These “snakes” of Wadjet Horus (WH) are not snakes; they are dragons. Dragons may contain elements of several animals like pigs, snakes, birds  etc. but they are not snakes.  Indeed , some are clearly of the socalled pig-boar dragon type with their pig-like faces.
Wadjet Horus knows they are not snakes. In fact, he called them “dragons” on Historum ( before he was banned there).  This is what he said there some time ago:
Wadjet Horus
The jade dragons of China: all the jade dragons of China are remarkable with their crests, the crested dragon also have been discovered in Olmec civilization. The earliest crested jade dragon dates from Inner Mongolia/
Crested jade dragon (3500 BC):
 
 
 
 
 ....
 
 
 

The above Langzhou dragon and other ones have been turned into snakes by WH on AE. Thumbs Down

The Langzhou dragon can also be found here:
 
Regarding the Liangzhu artefact, the figure that is claimed to hold snakes( something which can't be accepted now). He dated it 3300 BC. I had my doubts so I asked for a good source to check it. He did not supply a reference.  Interestingly, on the other forum, he gave the date 3000 BC, not 3300 BC for the same artefact. Making it 300 years older here on AE seems crucial to support his claim that its the oldest evidence of snakeholding figures.  
 
 
WH has not supplied sources when asked. There is also  deliberate misleading and distortion. Warned for trolling  Exclamation
 
 
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Edited by Sander - 20-Jul-2011 at 21:53
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2011 at 22:00
Originally posted by Sander

 
I checked some things and I’m not happy with what I’ve found out.
 
These “snakes” of Wadjet Horus (WH) are not snakes; they are dragons. Dragons may contain elements of several animals like pigs, snakes, birds  etc. but they are not snakes.  Indeed , some are clearly of the socalled pig-boar dragon type with their pig-like faces.
Wadjet Horus knows they are not snakes. In fact, he called them “dragons” on Historum ( before he was banned there).  This is what he said there some time ago:
Wadjet Horus
The jade dragons of China: all the jade dragons of China are remarkable with their crests, the crested dragon also have been discovered in Olmec civilization. The earliest crested jade dragon dates from Inner Mongolia/
Crested jade dragon (3500 BC):
 
 
 
 
 ....
 
 
 

The above Langzhou dragon and other ones have been turned into snakes by WH on AE. Thumbs Down

The Langzhou dragon can also be found here:
 
Regarding the Liangzhu artefact, the figure that is claimed to hold snakes( something which can't be accepted now). He dated it 3300 BC. I had my doubts so I asked for a good source to check it. He did not supply a reference.  Interestingly, on the other forum, he gave the date 3000 BC, not 3300 BC for the same artefact. Making it 300 years older here on AE seems crucial to support his claim that its the oldest evidence of snakeholding figures.  
 
 
WH has not supplied sources when asked. There is also  deliberate misleading and distortion. Warned for trolling  Exclamation
 
 
Star
 
 
Liangzhu culture is found to be started with a royal grave dating from 3300BC, the snake holding god is found among the sacrifices with other jade artefacts.  Chinese neolithic cultures are not thouroghly redicsovered it is why very few people know about them. 
 
And I have been warned for posting link here, I tought it is against the forum rules to post links, now you tell me.
 
Oh, do not make anymore excuses, dragon is an euphemism of snake, snake worship is NOT confined to realistic icons of snakes,,snake gods sometime are combined with head of other animals or humans there are frog-headed snake, pig, bull headed snakes, human headed snakes, but they are essentially snake gods. Dragon gods are snake gods, this is a basic knowledge of pagan cults.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 20-Jul-2011 at 22:16
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2011 at 22:14

Actually there are older snake holding figure from China, 4000BC from late Banpo culture:

 
 
The figures are seem stretching arms towards the curving snakes.
 
 
 
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 02:50

Back to that Xing Long Wa artefact,  called a crested snake by WH. He dates it 6300 BC but the culture is ca 6300-5500 BC. Without a good reference a narrow date of 6300 BC is without  value.

Moreover, WH's claim its a crested snake is rubbish. Its a pig-symbol, sometimes called a pig-"dragon" . What WH's presented as "a crest" is the porcine ear of the pig!   LOL
 
 
 The Xing Long Wa culture was pig-venerating.  Read more:
 

 

Neolithic Shamans and Pigs 

Extracts from: Nelson, S. M. (2008), Shamanism and the origin of states. California, West Coast Press.

 

 An unusual burial from the Early Neolithic Xinglongwa culture consisted of an adult male buried within a house with two whole, articulated adult pigs beside him. One of the pigs was male, the other female. These full-grown pigs together were nearly as long as the person they accompanied in death. It is possible that the buried person was a shaman accompanied by pigs representing spirit familiars. The pigs were unlikely to have been food for the afterlife in this context. Although they could have been buried as pets, this also seems an unlikely explanation for such a unique burial. The man was buried with 715 other grave offerings made of jade, bone, ceramic and shell.

The Hongshan culture, which succeeded Xinglongwa in the Late Neolithic, also was notable for pig ceremonialism which took several forms. The main burial at the site of Niuheliang had been plundered in antiquity, but it still contained pig and cattle bones. Pigs were sacrificed in Manchu rituals and are still important in Korean shamanism. A pig head or whole pig is often part of the rite. Animal bones were unusual as grave offerings in Hongshan sites. In fact, this is the only burial at Niuheliang from which animal bones are recorded. Sheep bones were found in a pit near the Goddess Temple, along with broken pots, suggesting a sheep feast dedicated to the spirits, making it necessary to dispose of the pots and bones in special pits.

Hongshan jades are the earliest figured jades in China, although jade earrings were found in the preceding Xinglongwa culture. They include many Zhulong, or pig-dragons, which feature a pig’s head attached to a curved body. The body is plain but the head has sculpted ears, large round eyes and tusks indicated by incising. These objects were perforated for suspension from a cord and were often found on the chest of the deceased. Another form also called Zhulong is larger than the typical one, has a thinner “body” and ends in the head of a horse with almond eyes and a long flowing mane. It is possible that both pigs and horses were spirit animals, or animal assistants to shamans. However Zhulong seem to be more generic than personal, since so many have been found. Each shaman has his or her own particular animal helper, while these “dragons” are made to a pattern that must have had a specific meaning. More likely they signalled rank, occupation, or other status – perhaps even different clans of Wu.........

 
 
The author has not mentioned that the wild boar ( wild pig) with tusks and spiked hairs in the neck was also used.
 
 
 
Star
 
 
 

 



Edited by Sander - 26-Jul-2011 at 03:56
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 08:39
Liangzhu culture is found to be started with a royal grave dating from 3300BC, the snake holding god is found among the sacrifices with other jade artefacts.  Chinese neolithic cultures are not thouroghly redicsovered it is why very few people know about them. 
 
And I have been warned for posting link here, I tought it is against the forum rules to post links, now you tell me.
 
 
Today, the Chinese Neolithic cultures are among the most studied of any.  The Ceramics from that period have been studied intensely for the last 40 or so years.
 
Posting legitimate links to provide additional evidence or to source a particular claim is not only allowed, it's almost required.  Esp if it's one of those "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" events.
What isn't allowed are links to commercial sites selling something.  That's spam, and will be deleted.
 
 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 08:53
Serpentine images are among the earliest forms of decorative art.  They were used to depict certain gods yes, but they were also used to depict nature based spirits.  They were also used because the shapes lent themselves well to handles and other aspects of the utilitarian side of ceramics.  Form Follows Function is a concept far older than the 20th cent.
 
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 18:16
Snake, Pig's, Cat's, Snake!

I believe the "Ayes" have it! Chuckle!

A lot of very interesting information folks!

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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 19:54
Originally posted by Sander

Back to that Xing Long Wa artefact,  called a crested snake by WH. He dates it 6300 BC but the culture is ca 6300-5500 BC. Without a good reference a narrow date of 6300 BC is without  value.

Moreover, WH's claim its a crested snake is rubbish. Its a pig-symbol, sometimes called a pig-"dragon" . What WH's presented as "a crest" is the porcine ear of the pig!   LOL
 
 
 The Xing Long Wa culture was pig-venerating.  Read more:
 

 

Neolithic Shamans and Pigs 

Extracts from: Nelson, S. M. (2008), Shamanism and the origin of states. California, West Coast Press.

 

 An unusual burial from the Early Neolithic Xinglongwa culture consisted of an adult male buried within a house with two whole, articulated adult pigs beside him. One of the pigs was male, the other female. These full-grown pigs together were nearly as long as the person they accompanied in death. It is possible that the buried person was a shaman accompanied by pigs representing spirit familiars. The pigs were unlikely to have been food for the afterlife in this context. Although they could have been buried as pets, this also seems an unlikely explanation for such a unique burial. The man was buried with 715 other grave offerings made of jade, bone, ceramic and shell.

The Hongshan culture, which succeeded Xinglongwa in the Late Neolithic, also was notable for pig ceremonialism which took several forms. The main burial at the site of Niuheliang had been plundered in antiquity, but it still contained pig and cattle bones. Pigs were sacrificed in Manchu rituals and are still important in Korean shamanism. A pig head or whole pig is often part of the rite. Animal bones were unusual as grave offerings in Hongshan sites. In fact, this is the only burial at Niuheliang from which animal bones are recorded. Sheep bones were found in a pit near the Goddess Temple, along with broken pots, suggesting a sheep feast dedicated to the spirits, making it necessary to dispose of the pots and bones in special pits.

Hongshan jades are the earliest figured jades in China, although jade earrings were found in the preceding Xinglongwa culture. They include many Zhulong, or pig-dragons, which feature a pig’s head attached to a curved body. The body is plain but the head has sculpted ears, large round eyes and tusks indicated by incising. These objects were perforated for suspension from a cord and were often found on the chest of the deceased. Another form also called Zhulong is larger than the typical one, has a thinner “body” and ends in the head of a horse with almond eyes and a long flowing mane. It is possible that both pigs and horses were spirit animals, or animal assistants to shamans. However Zhulong seem to be more generic than personal, since so many have been found. Each shaman has his or her own particular animal helper, while these “dragons” are made to a pattern that must have had a specific meaning. More likely they signalled rank, occupation, or other status – perhaps even different clans of Wu.........

 
 
The author has not mentioned that the wild boar ( wild pig) with tusks and spiked hairs in the neck was also used.
 
 
 
Star
 
 
 

 

 
Pig was domesticated so it was worshipped along with the snake, you cropped the picture to ignore the crest which continued down at the back. Pigs do not have such crest, nor have legless bodies get it real and respect the artefact. Man.
 
Also, you cited an american source to prove chinese neolithic? What kind mentality is this? The earliest jade figure is NOT from Hongshan culture, but from Xinglongwa Culture.
 
A figure of merged twins 6000BC:
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 26-Jul-2011 at 19:58
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