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Iran has very limited amount of R1a1

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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iran has very limited amount of R1a1
    Posted: 08-Jan-2014 at 00:34
Pashtuns indeed have among the highest R1a1a, also recently at the Harrapa ancestry genetic project, some of the Pashtuns are showing up to 20% northern European component, which basically states that Aryans, did indeed have a lot of Northern European ancestry. Now the questions where did the Aryans comes from? logically looking at the genetics of people, so far it looks like perhaps some where in present day Russia
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2014 at 14:37
Originally posted by mojobadshah

Is tracing PIE people using only genetics will result in a very linear model of descent.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a lot of diversity within an ethnic group?  What ethnic group is pure?  The Pashtun's look like they have a very high percentage of R1a1a, but there are other Pashtun haplogroups like L and J.  There is no 1 haplogroup that designates the Parsis too.  So why would the PIE people have been composed of only 1 haplogroup.


because in ancient times race mixing was much less common due to difficulty in mobility. Also when people are speaking related languages and having common haplogroups, we then conclude that the shared haplogroup was the haplogroup of the common ancestor.

There were also DNA tests done on Tocharian mummies in China and similar results must have come out.


Is it possible that speakers from each one of these haplgroups R1a1a and J both contributed to the PIE language?

Lastly I have a genetics question.  If my Y-DNA is J does that mean that none of my ancestors have had haplogroup R1a1a?  Because my mom has Southern European DNA, but I don't.


You can't "contribute" to a language except for loanwords provided they don't grammatically conflict with the language borrowing it.

In response to your genetics question, if you're a male you're Y-chromosome is the same haplogroup passed from the father to the son and on it does not change regardless of race mixing. Only mutation change these haplogroups. If you're a female it's different but both males and females also have the same mtDNA passed from mother to off-spring, unless again a mutation changes it.
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2014 at 10:23
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by mojobadshah

Is tracing PIE people using only genetics will result in a very linear model of descent.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a lot of diversity within an ethnic group?  What ethnic group is pure?  The Pashtun's look like they have a very high percentage of R1a1a, but there are other Pashtun haplogroups like L and J.  There is no 1 haplogroup that designates the Parsis too.  So why would the PIE people have been composed of only 1 haplogroup.


because in ancient times race mixing was much less common due to difficulty in mobility. Also when people are speaking related languages and having common haplogroups, we then conclude that the shared haplogroup was the haplogroup of the common ancestor.


I can see less race mixing in places like China isolated by mountains, but Micheal Witzel thinks that the PIE people were a mixed race. 


Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by mojobadshah

Is it possible that speakers from each one of these haplgroups R1a1a and J both contributed to the PIE language?

Lastly I have a genetics question.  If my Y-DNA is J does that mean that none of my ancestors have had haplogroup R1a1a?  Because my mom has Southern European DNA, but I don't.


You can't "contribute" to a language except for loanwords provided they don't grammatically conflict with the language borrowing it.


Do we know that PIE is not a creole like language?

Originally posted by PakistaniShield


In response to your genetics question, if you're a male you're Y-chromosome is the same haplogroup passed from the father to the son and on it does not change regardless of race mixing. Only mutation change these haplogroups. If you're a female it's different but both males and females also have the same mtDNA passed from mother to off-spring, unless again a mutation changes it.



If DNA can't trace race mixing then don't you think DNA is kind of limited in identifying the PIE people?
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2014 at 18:04
Originally posted by mojobadshah



If DNA can't trace race mixing then don't you think DNA is kind of limited in identifying the PIE people?

That's not what I stated. I stated the Y-chromosome can't change no matter how mixed you are. If you go deeper into DNA then you can find the different ancestries of an ethnicity, however the Y-chromosome in males is still unchanged.

So when you have males having the same Y-chromosomes in different parts of the world or both genders sharing common mtDNA , speaking languages of the same origin, it's fair to assume they have common ancestors who spoke a language ancestral to the ones spoken by the modern speakers.





Edited by PakistaniShield - 09-Jan-2014 at 18:05
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  Quote Vispaiti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2014 at 07:38
Originally posted by MediaWarLord

Only 19% of Iranic people in the capital of Tajikistan, Dushanbe, belong to hg R1a. Tajikistan is in Central Asia. It seems that true Iranic people don't have that much of R1a. And Slavic people that have that much R1a is because of the Turks from Central Asia. Turks, Tatars, Huns and Mongols brought more of hg R1a to Russia.
Russia had already more than 20% of R1a, but because of the Mongol and Tatar invasions into Russia their percentage of hg R1a jumped to above 50%.
 

Iranian people (Ossetians (Alans), Iranians (Persians) and Kurds (Medes)) in the Middle East don't have that much R1a.


sorry but most tajiks have 50% R1a :High frequencies of R1a1a (R-M17 or R-M198; 50 to 70%) are found among the Ishkashimis, Khujand Tajiks, Panjakent Tajiks.Eastern afghan tajiks(parwan,panjshir,badakshan) have also very much r1a but farswiwan of ghor,herat,farah are similar to persians

Persians are just iranized elamites and it is very ironic that Persia is today called land of aryans

Edited by Vispaiti - 14-Aug-2014 at 08:04
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  Quote Aryavartta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2016 at 16:35
Wrong, Indians did use the word Aryan to relate to themselves, they called themselves Aryan people, that is the reason for the whole caste system, the Brahmin, Kshtriya, and the Banias were Aryan stock, the Shudras and Untouchables were Dravidian stock, till this day the caste system is there, the Aryan people of India came on war chariots from the Kurgan 50,000 years ago and established Rig Veda Hinduism which is an Aryan religion, the Swastika that Hitler used was a Indo Aryan symbol, the land of northern India was called Aryavartta which means abode of the Aryans, 85% of India is lactose intolerant, whereas the northern 15% are lactose tolerant because Aryans were milk drinkers, you still have groups like Arya Samaj in India, R1a1 is a Aryan haplogroup and India's R1a1 is much older than Europe, not only that Bengali Brahmins have 72% of it, the most R1a1 is found in south asia among Brahmins at 72%, Mohanna tribes at 70%, and Punjabi groups at 60%, the Afghan Pashtuns are 52%, Persians are J, which isn't anywhere near the Kurgan where Aryans originated from, all Aryan traditions food clothing genetics religion are in India, the Persians neither have the genes, traditions, clothing that relates them to Aryan people.
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  Quote Aryavartta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2016 at 16:43
Originally posted by mojobadshah

Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by mojobadshah

Is tracing PIE people using only genetics will result in a very linear model of descent.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a lot of diversity within an ethnic group?  What ethnic group is pure?  The Pashtun's look like they have a very high percentage of R1a1a, but there are other Pashtun haplogroups like L and J.  There is no 1 haplogroup that designates the Parsis too.  So why would the PIE people have been composed of only 1 haplogroup.


because in ancient times race mixing was much less common due to difficulty in mobility. Also when people are speaking related languages and having common haplogroups, we then conclude that the shared haplogroup was the haplogroup of the common ancestor.


I can see less race mixing in places like China isolated by mountains, but Micheal Witzel thinks that the PIE people were a mixed race. 


Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by mojobadshah

Is it possible that speakers from each one of these haplgroups R1a1a and J both contributed to the PIE language?

Lastly I have a genetics question.  If my Y-DNA is J does that mean that none of my ancestors have had haplogroup R1a1a?  Because my mom has Southern European DNA, but I don't.


You can't "contribute" to a language except for loanwords provided they don't grammatically conflict with the language borrowing it.


Do we know that PIE is not a creole like language?

Originally posted by PakistaniShield


In response to your genetics question, if you're a male you're Y-chromosome is the same haplogroup passed from the father to the son and on it does not change regardless of race mixing. Only mutation change these haplogroups. If you're a female it's different but both males and females also have the same mtDNA passed from mother to off-spring, unless again a mutation changes it.



If DNA can't trace race mixing then don't you think DNA is kind of limited in identifying the PIE people?
the land of north india was called Aryavartta means abode of the Aryans, the land of north india has the highest amounts of R1a1 on the planet and the most diversity of it too, not to mention the older subclade of it, Bengali Brahmins are 72% R1a1, the highest in the world, then is the Mohanna tribes who are 70%, the Afghan Pashtuns are 52%, lets not forget that the swastika symbol that Hitler used is found most in the Indus than anywhere else in the world, the caste system of today is an Aryan invention, the first three caste are of Aryan stock, it is known that 85% of India was not even allowed to study any of the Rig Vedas, and also 15% of India is lactose tolerant while 85% is lactose intolerant, the Aryans were milk drinkers and just northern India is lactose tolerant. The Persians neither have the genes, traditions, clothing that Aryans use to have, nor are there stories so in-depth like the Rig Veda that they talk about their journey from the Kurgan to Iran, the Aryans were apart of the Yamaya people. A more warlike branch went to south asia.
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  Quote Aryavartta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2016 at 16:46
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by mojobadshah



If DNA can't trace race mixing then don't you think DNA is kind of limited in identifying the PIE people?

That's not what I stated. I stated the Y-chromosome can't change no matter how mixed you are. If you go deeper into DNA then you can find the different ancestries of an ethnicity, however the Y-chromosome in males is still unchanged.

So when you have males having the same Y-chromosomes in different parts of the world or both genders sharing common mtDNA , speaking languages of the same origin, it's fair to assume they have common ancestors who spoke a language ancestral to the ones spoken by the modern speakers.



North India is Aryavartta while Persia is elamite land, the Persians are just Aryanized elamites, the Aryans were nomad milk drinkers from the Kurgan who move to south asia way back in time, R1a1 in Bengali Brahmins is 72%, Mohanna tribes is 70%, and Afghan Pashtuns only have 52%. Read the Rig Vedas which are the oldest Aryan manuscripts just like the Swastika that Hitler uses is found mostly in the Indus Valley and no where else.
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  Quote Aryavartta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2016 at 16:49
Originally posted by balochii

Pashtuns indeed have among the highest R1a1a, also recently at the Harrapa ancestry genetic project, some of the Pashtuns are showing up to 20% northern European component, which basically states that Aryans, did indeed have a lot of Northern European ancestry. Now the questions where did the Aryans comes from? logically looking at the genetics of people, so far it looks like perhaps some where in present day Russia
No Pashtuns are just 52% in Afghanistan, please show me the report that says they have the highest, the report says Bengali Brahmins have the highest R1a1 at 72%, then the Mohanna tribes have 70%, the Swastika is a symbol of the Arya Samaj, which those Pashtuns never used. 
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  Quote Aryavartta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2016 at 16:52
Originally posted by Vispaiti

Originally posted by MediaWarLord

Only 19% of Iranic people in the capital of Tajikistan, Dushanbe, belong to hg R1a. Tajikistan is in Central Asia. It seems that true Iranic people don't have that much of R1a. And Slavic people that have that much R1a is because of the Turks from Central Asia. Turks, Tatars, Huns and Mongols brought more of hg R1a to Russia.
Russia had already more than 20% of R1a, but because of the Mongol and Tatar invasions into Russia their percentage of hg R1a jumped to above 50%.
 

Iranian people (Ossetians (Alans), Iranians (Persians) and Kurds (Medes)) in the Middle East don't have that much R1a.


sorry but most tajiks have 50% R1a :High frequencies of R1a1a (R-M17 or R-M198; 50 to 70%) are found among the Ishkashimis, Khujand Tajiks, Panjakent Tajiks.Eastern afghan tajiks(parwan,panjshir,badakshan) have also very much r1a but farswiwan of ghor,herat,farah are similar to persians

Persians are just iranized elamites and it is very ironic that Persia is today called land of aryans
Tajiks have 50% the Bengali Brahmins have 72%, the Mohanna tribes have 70%.
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