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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boer War
    Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 02:50
JAJ - you are very kind, especially given your own obvious depth of knowledge on the subject. I look forward to getting your email and am very interested in discussing your project.  
 
Speaking of bells, the Ship's bell from HMS Terrible (which supplied many of the naval guns used in the Natal campaign) still hangs in a tree in Zululand on a farm fairly near Eshowe - I was taken to see it by a local historian, but have no idea why it was hung there.

Though the Long Toms gained the infamy, the Ladysmith inhabitants actually considered them to be 'gentlemanly monsters' as their slow muzzle velocity meant that the report was heard - and thus warning given - before the shell arrived in town. The 4.5" howitzers were a different matter altogether, sending shells plunging into the town without any sort of warning and these were greatly feared.
 
Joubert was certainly a gentleman, and was described thus by Sir George White on his death. But even still, his forces brought untold misery and death on the civilian inhabitants of Ladysmith. Indeed, the Boer invasion of Natal is one of the great untold stories of the war - Joubert seems to have had little or no control over his troops, and they looted and pillaged as they saw fit. Several villages and town were burned to the ground and many Boers arrived with extra horses or a cart in readiness to carry off their ill-gotten gains. And yet their modern day apologists only ever speak about the farm-burning done by the British.
 
Far from being the innocent victim of British aggression, it is worth noting that the part of Natal (including the coal fields around Newcastle) that the Boers had invaded was annexed to the Transvaal. If - as their latter day apologists bizarely claim - the invasion of Natal was only intended to sieze strategic defensive positions, why didn't they merely occupy the high ground around Majuba / Laing's Nek and blow up the railway tunnel thereabouts?
 
A sizeable minority in Natal favoured the Boers (being of Afrikaans stock themselves) and these traitors took full advantage of the invasion to plunder from their English-speaking neighbours. One such traitor was found to have stolen no less than five pianos from neighbouring farmers who had fled to safety. Another offered his English-speaking neighbour a mere GBP10 for his vast farm, pointing out that when the Boers won, it would be taken from him anyway.

Botha was another interesting and impressive man. It is also worth noting that at the end of the war - far from bleating on and on about the Concentration Camps like many modern day commentators - Botha thanked the British for taking care of the Boer women and children. The fate of the English-speaking refugees from Johannesburg and northern Natal is another untold story - many of these unfortunate wretches were housed in terrible conditions by authorities who struggled to cope with the numbers. There was actually an outcry over the 'good conditions' the Boer women and children were kept in, compared to those afforded to these loyalists.

Re. Churchill - yes, an amazing young man. There is no doubting his utter fearlessness and also his incredible ability to pop up in the right place at the right time. The bar at Spion Kop Lodge is dedicated to him, and there are many stunning contemporary photographs of him from the war. As my fiancee remarked: how did he manage to get himself photographed so often!?


Edited by Bulldog69 - 19-Oct-2011 at 03:08
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 18:12
Bulldog - re Churchill's photographs - you could suggest to your fiancee that Churchill was so keen to be seen that his valet Thomas Walden (on loan from his mother) was probably whirling around him like a dervish with a camera. His photograph also appears in the Durban Club.

Re the concentration camps: Various versions of concentration camps had been in use for years. In 1898 they had been used by Spain in the Cuban uprising. Since about 1894 Germany had been using concentration camps in German South West Africa, in the full meaning of these words, with inhuman flogging (the stomach and between the thighs - as reported by Chief Nama) and accusations of other torture too terrible to mention. The measles epidemic that swept through the South African camps was horrifying because the children were from isolated communities and had no resistance to the disease. Measles had been noted by an Australian nurse who said some New Zealand soldiers were arriving sick with measles. However during the Boer War measles never went out of control as the soldiery had no doubt built up resistance. World wide, measles epidemics have killed tens of thousands (haven't seen the stats but this could be as high as hundreds of thousands and are still occuring today.) The women in the camps must have built up some resistance because typhoid caused most of their deaths; it was the scourge of the war and killed far more than bullets. The British had horrifying typhoid statistics in the Siege of Ladysmith and the better known epidemic at Bloemfontein. Complaints about the food in the camps were often justified, but what wasn't realised, was that the Boer commandoes, so anxious to disrupt British organisation, often disrupted the very food chain intended for the camps.
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 18:39
Wow! You raise so many interesting points I hardly know what to comment on first. First of all, the damage done by the Boers in Natal. Apart from damage to private property, which was extensive, and the destruction of railways, bridges, culverts etc., furniture was packed into the Newcastle Town Hall and set alight. In Dundee, a wealthy town, the Boers packed furniture into trains ready to move when the coast was clear. Then from Ladysmith Botha and Joubert led a cattle Raid of about 4,000 Boers south to Mooi River, thoroughbred country, where thousands of head of cattle were rustled. (This was when Churchill was captured.) Natal cattle also continually 'disappeared' into Boer-run Swaziland. That's about all I can think of at the moment. Some years ago, the Curator of the Dundee Museum was a fund of knowledge but I don't know if she's still there.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 19:16
At one point the disease was so bad there weren't enough soldiers to man the defences. Baden-Powell came up with a solution of putting dummies on the ramparts and using boys behind the lines so more soldiers could be sent to the front. His experiences in the Boer War led to him inventing the Boy Scout movement
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2011 at 19:41
Hi Nick - so, Mafeking also had a typhoid epidemic. I hadn't realised that. Possibly it means that the third besieged town, Kimberley, had one as well. Baden-Powell's defence of Mafeking has of course become extremely controversial because of his ability to turn thousands of blacks outside Kimberley who were then attacked by the Boers - all to save their food for the whites. He was incredibly innovative but pretty ruthless really. He has published a lot about his days spying for the British and he used innovative ways to record information - e.g. he drew enemy military installations as the pattern in butterfly wings. He also became adept as acting, as a bit of a loopy butterfly collector, etc. But you're right, it would have been the use of the boys in Mafeking that started his thoughts on a movement to improve their survival skills.
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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2011 at 02:21
Baden-Powell was actually inspired to establish the Boy Scouts by the American explorer and frontiersman, Frederick Burnham. The two served together in the Matabele War and Burnham sparked an interest in survival and tracking etc in BP.
The modern view is that BP was 'wrong' to be so ruthless in his defence of Mafeking, but he did what he could to prevent the town being captured. He was saddled with large numbers of 'useless mouths' and took the tough decision of forcing them to leave - the alternative would have been the loss of Mafeking. Surely the besieging Boers - who were the ones who tried first to starve the blacks to death and then, when they were forced to leave Mafeking, shot them - should bear more than a little responsibilty?
 
There is also a 'revisionist' view that the Boer War was NOT a white man's war - but this is to vastly over-simplify matters. Compared to every other colonial war, the Boer War most certainly was fought as a white-man's war. In (eg) the Zulu War or Sudan Campaign, the British deployed a small number of British troops, with the majority of Imperial troops being 'natives'. Similarly, during his punative raid on Abyssinia, the better part of Napier's force were Indian, not British, and during the Matabele Wars, loyal 'native' forces outnumbered the white Rhodesian forces.
This is not to say that blacks did not serve the British in the Boer War, but their role was vastly smaller than in all other colonial wars. Of course, it is politically incorrect to point out this reality in these enlightened times. 


Edited by Bulldog69 - 20-Oct-2011 at 02:21
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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2011 at 02:30
Re. German involvement in the Boer War.
It seems that people at the time were well aware of it - when Boer prisoners taken at Elandslaagte were marched into Ladysmith, the towns people shouted that they were 'German dogs'.
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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2011 at 02:45
JAJ
 
I received your emails and have replied - please let me know if you get it.
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  Quote Chookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2011 at 17:32
Originally posted by Bulldog69

Re. Sir Winston Churchill

Not only did he escape from Boer captivity after the Armoured Train incident,

It was my impression that he did not "escape" but broke his parole - OK that could technically be called "escape", but at the cost of an "English Gentleman's" word? One of Churchill's overweening ambitions was be one of them (English Gentlemen).
For money you did what guns could not do.........
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2011 at 19:12
Wasn't Churchill born a "gentleman"? I thought he was descended from the Duke of Marlborough. It was only the middle-class nouveau-rich who cared about pretentious manners and gestures to set themselves apart from the workers
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2011 at 22:20
There was some accusation of Churchill breaking parole and a good deal of acrimony between him and the two other men who had planned to escape with him. There is also the possibility that he bribed some guards. Whatever the circumstances, he leapt over a fence and without knowledge of language and only chocolate in his pocket he found his way across the Transvaal which is pretty amazing. He did use writer's licence, e.g. he swam the mighty Aarpe (sp) River, which is a stream apparently, and despite his say-so, he was not one of the first people to arrive with Ladysmith's Relief Force. His father was Lord Randolph Churchill, his grandfather the Duke of Marlborough. At one stage he was the heir and his grandmother, the Duchess of Marlborough, urged her eldest son (I'm paraphrasing): Hurry up and and have some children, otherwise that little wretch Winston will get the title.
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2011 at 19:47
Bulldog mentioned that General Joubert had lost control of the Boer forces surrounding Ladysmith, which explains a lot. Joubert would not have given permission for the British hospital at the Ladysmith Town Hall, clearly flying a huge Red Cross flag, to be bombarded for several days, causing death and devastation, which clearly defied the Hague Convention. There was a skilled artillery team in the Boer forces in the surrounding hills, German trained and German led; could they have been the culprits? After some hesitation, Perhaps because of the transgression, Joubert allowed a hospital to be established three miles out of town. The catch was, that it was placed directly underneath the Long Tom at the top of Umbulwana, a precarious position. If the return fire of the British naval guns fell short of their Long Tom target, they fell into the hospital. It was called Intombi, after the small nearby stream and became infamous for the typhoid epedemic that went out of control; a train arrived daily from Ladysmith with scores of new patients from town. It was here that great heroism was displayed by both doctors and nurses, almost all of whom suffered from the disease and all of whom were on starvation diets. There were two graphic accounts - one was by a Greys trained (Pietermaritzburg) nurse, Kate Driver, who recorded the horrors, another was by an Australian nurse, Rose Shapphere.
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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2011 at 03:28

At the start of the siege, General White asked Joubert to let the civilians leave Ladysmith. To his shame, Joubert refused this request - no doubt because he knew the more 'useless mouths' the British had to feed in Ladysmith, the sooner they would have to surrender. As JAJ rightly says, Joubert did, however, permit the British to establish the hospital camp at Intombi.

The towns people of Ladysmith were a formidible bunch though, and did their very best to maintain their standards throughout the hell of the seige. Ignoring the hunger and shelling, a deputation of Ladysmith's ladies complained to General White about Imperial troops bathing in the river - something these ladies found shockingly indecent.
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2011 at 00:31
I heard some funny stores when I was researching in Ladysmith once. One story concerned the Australian 'Karri' Davies, one of the founders of the ILH regiment raised from Uitlanders. In the long siege his uniform became faded and he tried to dye it khaki with Condes Crystals. It turned pink unfortunately. He may have been in his pink uniform at the battle of Platrand, when he had a strange claim to fame. He said he was the only man in the world who had four bullet holes from one bullet. He was a tubby lad and apparently his buttocks stuck up from the rock he was crouched behind. A Boer bullet went in and out of both cheeks!

Before the siege, the Boer farmers around Ladysmith challenged some officers of the British garrison to a test of their shooting skills. The Boers tethered ten goats and took shots from far away. When they walked up they discovered every goat was dead. They tethered another ten for the British. After the dust cleared they walked up and discovered eleven live goats. One of the nannies had birthed in fright.

The last story involves a British officer who was determined to enjoy a cup of tea on the verandah despite a Boer barrage during the siege. As he lifted the cup to his lips a bullet shot the cup away. He looked at the handle, laid it down in the saucer and went in to clean up, all without a word.
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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2011 at 02:11
I enjoyed the story about the goats, but I must say it strikes me as somewhat apocryphal! The Boers were masters of propaganda - their efforts put those of Goebals to shame - and a consistant theme running through all their stories is how great they were at shooting, and how dreadful the British were.
As early as the aftermath of the Jameson Raid, the Boer propaganda machine went into overdrive - despite their forces having fought a 2 day running battle with the Raiders (and them having been driven off various positions, their forces having been scattered by cavalry charges on a couple of occasions and their snipers having been silenced by the Raiders' 7-lbers), somewhat improbably, the Boers reported just 4 men killed. This was completely at odds with eye-witness accounts from the Raiders (some officers reported wagon loads of dead Boers trundling away after the surrender) and a loose-lipped remark from one Boer commander (who admitted the Raiders' artillery had given his men a hammering).
Interestingly, after the surrender, the Boers challenged the Rhodesians to a shooting competition - which the Rhodesians won.
 
This general theme carried on through the Boer War - the Boers reported tiny casuality figures in all encounters (whether or not they were driven from the positions) and outrageously exaggerated British losses. Just a few months into the War, President Steyn of the Free State assured his men that the British had lost 160,000 men KIA - more than the British actually had in South Africa at that time.
Similarly, in one battle of the Guerilla War / Terrorist Campaign (I forget the name now and cannot check my books because I am work, but will edit this later) a force of 1200 Boers attacked British positions held by 550 men. Various attempts to take the British positions were driven off and broken up with machine gun fire and artillery, in a battle that started at 0300 hours and ended in the evening. Their attacks all having been thwarted, the Boers retired - claiming they had lost just 2 (!!!) men KIA during the 18 hour battle.


Edited by Bulldog69 - 25-Oct-2011 at 06:39
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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2011 at 07:03
Not the most 'PC' of anecdotes, but interesting nonetheless:
 
‘Among the marvelous escapes recorded, and these were not a few, was one of a negro who was shot through the brain by a bullet. The projectile passed through one temple and lodged into the other, yet the man still survived, and showed a decided intention to recover. There is an old story of a Jamaica negro who fell from a tree without injury, and when asked how he had escaped, he explained his good fortune by saying: ‘Tank God, me fall on me head!’. The invulnerability of the nigger cranium has its advantages’
South Africa and the Transvaal War, Vol.3, p.19

While accurate, the newly adopted, smaller .303 (or roughly equivilant 7mm round for the Mauser) rounds travelled much faster than those fired by the Martini-Henry style weapons the Lee Metfords and Mausers replaced and thus generally didn't tumble on impact. If these smaller round didn't strike bone, therefore, the bullet usually passed straight through the victim's body without doing too much harm. There are numerous remarkable takes of Tommies getting riddled with bullets but emerging relatively unscathed.

It is also noteworthy that Buller's field hospital contained an X-Ray unit which undoubtedly helped a great many wounded soldiers.


Edited by Bulldog69 - 25-Oct-2011 at 07:18
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2011 at 16:27
Hi Bulldog. Yes the Boer War was one where many 'firsts' were seen, including the newly invented X-ray machine. I'm pretty sure it was the first war where Listerene was used - hygiene was becoming increasingly important in surgery. A cinematograph team which had only been briefly trialled, took footage of the war. It was the first time telegraphists were used, who tapped into telephone lines to convey information. I'm pretty sure I've missed a few here.
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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2011 at 04:23

Another interesting modern 'myth' is the PC-inspired push to claim that the Boer War was not the 'white man's war' that everyone at the time accepted it was.

Like most revisionist history, this is based more on modern attitudes and efforts to appease certain political groups than any sort of historical reality. Those who claim it was not fought as a 'white man's war' use a couple of photos showing Africans in uniform, wearing bandoliers and holding rifles and seem to think this is enough. No one has ever denied that Africans served as scouts and such like throughout the war and on both sides, but the fact is that the two Boer Wars were fought very differently to every other colonial war. In the Zulu War and the Sudan Campaign, for example, the Imperial forces were largely locally raised regiments with just a core of British units - at Omdurman, eg, only a third of the 'British' forces were indeed 'British'. In the Boer War, no such large scale raising of non-white troops happened and no battle saw non-white regiments play a leading role.
If one looks at the British ORBATs at any of the major battles of the Second Boer War (Colenso, Spion Kop, Paardeberg, Belmont, Talana Hill, Elandslaagte, Wagon Hill etc etc), one will not see a single non-white regiment there. Compare this to the ORBATs at other British colonial battles such as Magdala, Omdurman, Isandlwana, Khartoum or whatever.
 
Also, the British turned down repeated offers of assistance from both the Basutho and the Zulus.
 
Similarly, General Napier's raid on Abyssinia saw large numbers of (non-white) Indian Army troops deployed. Indeed, the majority of Napier's forces were Indian, not British. This quite simply didn't happen during the Boer War and the Indian units of the Indian Army (it had British units too) were not deployed to South Africa. One imagines the magnificent Sikh and Gurkha regiments would have been splendidly suited to serve in the Boer War, but this did not occur.

Equally, during the dozens of wars the Boers fought prior to the Boer War, the Boers made lots of use of Swazi and other African warriors, with these black allied units often outnumbering the Boers themselves.

So even though thousands of Africans played an important role during the war, there was certainly a determined and consistant effort by both sides to fight the war in a very different way from other colonial conflicts.


Edited by Bulldog69 - 15-Nov-2011 at 04:35
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2011 at 20:17
Originally posted by Bulldog69

Another interesting modern 'myth' is the PC-inspired push to claim that the Boer War was not the 'white man's war' that everyone at the time accepted it was.

Like most revisionist history, this is based more on modern attitudes and efforts to appease certain political groups than any sort of historical reality. Those who claim it was not fought as a 'white man's war' use a couple of photos showing Africans in uniform, wearing bandoliers and holding rifles and seem to think this is enough. No one has ever denied that Africans served as scouts and such like throughout the war and on both sides, but the fact is that the two Boer Wars were fought very differently to every other colonial war. In the Zulu War and the Sudan Campaign, for example, the Imperial forces were largely locally raised regiments with just a core of British units - at Omdurman, eg, only a third of the 'British' forces were indeed 'British'. In the Boer War, no such large scale raising of non-white troops happened and no battle saw non-white regiments play a leading role.
If one looks at the British ORBATs at any of the major battles of the Second Boer War (Colenso, Spion Kop, Paardeberg, Belmont, Talana Hill, Elandslaagte, Wagon Hill etc etc), one will not see a single non-white regiment there. Compare this to the ORBATs at other British colonial battles such as Magdala, Omdurman, Isandlwana, Khartoum or whatever.
 
Also, the British turned down repeated offers of assistance from both the Basutho and the Zulus.
 
Similarly, General Napier's raid on Abyssinia saw large numbers of (non-white) Indian Army troops deployed. Indeed, the majority of Napier's forces were Indian, not British. This quite simply didn't happen during the Boer War and the Indian units of the Indian Army (it had British units too) were not deployed to South Africa. One imagines the magnificent Sikh and Gurkha regiments would have been splendidly suited to serve in the Boer War, but this did not occur.

Equally, during the dozens of wars the Boers fought prior to the Boer War, the Boers made lots of use of Swazi and other African warriors, with these black allied units often outnumbering the Boers themselves.

So even though thousands of Africans played an important role during the war, there was certainly a determined and consistant effort by both sides to fight the war in a very different way from other colonial conflicts.

Welcome back Bulldog.Smile As a South African, maybe you can help me with this topic. I'd like to find out more about the Boers' ancestors, the Voortrekkers:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30519
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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2011 at 08:00
Have commented on the Voortrekker thread.
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