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Just where was Babylon?

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Just where was Babylon?
    Posted: 17-Jan-2011 at 15:06
Perhaps most of you are knowledgeable about the existance of only one place named "Babylon!", so you are not even aware that there reportedly existed another one?

The "other Babylon" is reported to have been a "Roman" city/fortress etc., and it existed within Egypt, and has in the intervening centuries become a part of Cairo!

Before I post again, I would like any of you to find out as much as you can about this specific place, and any other names it might well have been known as, and any other little clues that could have made our past historians make mistakes?

For example the word "Fustat!"

Regards,
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2011 at 15:14
Famous textile company that produce baby clothes with lon contracting,I suppose?
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2011 at 15:21
Babylon (Akkadian Babilli) means "Gate of God", in the Arabic language Babellah means the same, in fact "Bab" is a very Semitic word which means "Gate/Door", and, as we all know, "illi/allah" means "God", it seems to be possible that there were some other cities with the same name.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2011 at 19:04
Dear Cyrus, thanks for your alert and pertinent response! "Gate/Door", is very appropriate, as is "God", thus maybe we have "God's Gate?" or some other alternative? We will see if this description means anything?

In the interium, I will post parts of a little paper I have written just for this entry! It begins thusly!

Just where was Babylon? Does it really mean “Babble? of voices”, etc.?

For the readers enlightenment, we are not now speaking of the Babylon of reknowned fame and importance, but of another place, in another nation/state, that was known to have the same name! I would hope that now that you understand my premise, that you would read all of the below sites in their entirety!

http://www.ask-aladdin.com/hangingchurch.html

I don't know, but I could easily suggest that "hanging gardens" could be another version of the area where this church existed, which was Egypt! The next few sites only provide further support for this idea!

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/egypt/cairo-hanging-church

http://archnet.org/library/images/one-image.jsp?location_id=1393&image_id=54163

http://fishears.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-07-22T14%3A53%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7   Scroll down to the photo of the aqueduct!

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Aqueducts_in_Egypt

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/727523.stm

"The Egyptian authorities are to restore a twelfth-century aqueduct in the capital, Cairo.
It was built to supply water to the citadel which fortified the city against the Crusaders, and provided Cairo's main water supply until the nineteenth century.
Huge water wheels were used to raise water from the Nile and channel it along a groove into a giant arched wall.
The government says previous restoration attempts were inadequate; and that the aqueduct now is threatened by road construction and encroaching shanty towns. In one section of the wall, metal poles have been driven into the stone to hang washing lines on, and rubbish collects in the arches. People living and working beside the aqueduct will be moved away.
The work is expected to last for two years, and will cost about eleven-million dollars.
From the newsroom of the BBC World Service"

http://archnet.org/library/images/thumbnails.jsp?location_id=9735

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/itulun.htm          
A story worth reading!

Also, a must read is this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qatta'i

As well the following!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Tulun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarra

http://books.google.com/books?id=INsmT6zjAl8C&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=Ibn+Tulun+Aqueduct&source=bl&ots=MzoSiTZqt0&sig=B9AHxERj5ru9_O2stZeZio-axBc&hl=en&ei=Jrg0TYXVFcKC8gaEyejJCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Ibn%20Tulun%20Aqueduct&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=FWAL8L-a7CwC&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=Ibn+Tulun+Aqueduct&source=bl&ots=LDCeFr-sYJ&sig=74bBJRHnHNEE0jK7khN47RA8u7M&hl=en&ei=YLw0TaTWI8P88Abg7bj7CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=Ibn%20Tulun%20Aqueduct&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=rpUuqLPPKK4C&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=Ibn+Tulun+Aqueduct&source=bl&ots=QYzTpJAxza&sig=tPHqyLTjUXIoW7aa_v5w-T7eP8Y&hl=en&ei=YLw0TaTWI8P88Abg7bj7CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/africa/sights/architecture

http://www.eternalegypt.org/EternalEgyptWebsiteWeb/HomeServlet?ee_website_action_key=action.display.module&story_id=&language_id=1&module_id=134

http://books.google.com/books?id=p83Dlo30_OIC&pg=PA350&lpg=PA350&dq=Ibn+Tulun+Aqueduct&source=bl&ots=OBDnXlzNzT&sig=CswmQXFuTaozozZh1AEbPP4hnuI&hl=en&ei=YLw0TaTWI8P88Abg7bj7CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEYQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=Ibn%20Tulun%20Aqueduct&f=false

http://is-is.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=32536516637&topic=6773 “The Dome of the Air!”

http://www.h-net.org/~fisher/hst372/readings/stewart1.html

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/alnasir.htm

So, was it an aqueduct of water from a spring or water from the Nile? And also notice the mention of a place called “Bab el-Luk!” It was reportedly razed by a mob!

Just a little bit of little known knowledge!

Regards,

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2011 at 17:32
As yet no response?

Is my form of posting not simple enough? Or, is it merely that this site, just has too few educated posters?

But, education, is most often found within the "eyes" of the respondent!
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2011 at 15:04
So, just what do any of you know about "Babylon" in Egypt?

Do you know that there was supposedly built in Egypt, a "Spiral Prayer Tower?", and, if indeed one was built, then it really can be the object of so many of the paintings of the "Tower of Babel" which we can today observe from numerous sources! Of course there was another one supposedly built near the Tigris and Euphrates, area!

I just hope some of you will persue this line of thought?
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2011 at 10:02
Sleepyzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2011 at 10:44
Thanks for your show of support!

Giving my posts the famous "Mark of Zorro!", is a wonderful symbol of your continuing support! "Z"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you even like this?

http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/babylon07.html

http://www.livius.org/a/1/maps/babylon_map.gif

You will note that a river bed also ran thru the area of our Egyptian Babylon!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_Fortress

http://www.touregypt.net/babylon.htm

"Fort Babylon was never actually the seat of government of Egypt. Until the Arabic conquest, Alexandria had that honor, but certainly the modern capital of Egypt, Cairo grew up around it, and for some years after, Europeans referred to Cairo as Babylon."



Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 26-Jan-2011 at 11:02
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2011 at 11:24
The following is an interesting article;

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/rawdah.htm

Note the constant mention of "gardens!"

And, this site is also of some interest;

http://thereturnofthegods.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default?orderby=updated

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 26-Jan-2011 at 11:48
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2011 at 12:00
Glad to be of service. Star
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2011 at 12:46
Old cities had "gates" (Bab in Arabic), Bab el-Luq is the Arabic name of one of these gates in Cairo, you can find several other similar names in the Arabic countires, such as Bab el-Amud: http://www.webgaza.net/palestine/tour/Jer/Gates-Bab_El-Amud.htm Bab-el-Mandeb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bab-el-Mandeb Bab El-Rahmeh: http://www.webgaza.net/palestine/tour/Jer/Gates-Bab_El-Rahmeh.htm ...
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2011 at 15:56
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Old cities had "gates" (Bab in Arabic), Bab el-Luq is the Arabic name of one of these gates in Cairo, you can find several other similar names in the Arabic countires, such as Bab el-Amud: http://www.webgaza.net/palestine/tour/Jer/Gates-Bab_El-Amud.htm Bab-el-Mandeb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bab-el-Mandeb Bab El-Rahmeh: http://www.webgaza.net/palestine/tour/Jer/Gates-Bab_El-Rahmeh.htm ...


Thanks Cyrus! The above information gives me even more reason to question the historical use of the city name "Babylon" and its placement within what is present day Iraq!

If one persues information to the degree that I persue it, then one might well note that this area of Egypt, (Babylon in Egypt) was located in approximately the same location as the ancient cities variously called "ON!", and Heliopolis!
One must well realize that the identification of cities within Egypt, as well as other places, is mostly based upon "speculation", or "scholarly opinion", or upon "subjective" premises, rather than "Objective" ones!

Thus, using your translations, we can denote that if ancient "ON" was located in the same general area, and due to the suddden changes in river channels, with which the Nile river at flood levels was known to produce, then a "gate" or "bab", that opened into the city of "ON", might well be known as the "Gate of On", or "Bab-el-On!"/ Babylon? Phonetically the substitution of a "y" for an "e" is not wrong or even unknown!

Thanks, and Regards,

Addition; http://www.asdatoz.com/Documents/Website-%20Objective%20vs%20subjective%20ltr.pdf

Edited by opuslola - 26-Jan-2011 at 15:58
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 14:41
Red clay, you old devil! Always trying to be supportive!

But, perhaps you should read this Wikipedia article?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

"On either 10 or 11 June 323 BC, Alexander died in the palace of Nebuchadnezzar II, in Babylon at the age of 32.[130] Details of the death differ slightly - Plutarch's account is that roughly 14 days before his death, Alexander entertained his admiral Nearchus, and spent the night and next day drinking with Medius of Larissa.[131] He developed a fever, which grew steadily worse, until he was unable to speak, and the common soldiers, anxious about his health, demanded and were granted the right to file past him as he silently waved at them.[131][132][133] Two days later, Alexander was dead.[131][132] Diodorus recounts that Alexander was struck down with pain after downing a large bowl of unmixed wine in honour of Hercules, and died after some agony,[134] which is also mentioned as an alternative by Arrian, but Plutarch specifically denies this claim.[131].....

Several natural causes (diseases) have been suggested as the cause of Alexander's death; malaria or typhoid fever are obvious candidates. A 1998 article in the New England Journal of Medicine attributed his death to typhoid fever complicated by bowel perforation and ascending paralysis,[141] whereas another recent analysis has suggested pyrogenic spondylitis or meningitis as the cause.[142] Other illnesses could have also been the culprit, including acute pancreatitis or the West Nile virus.[143][144] Natural-cause theories also tend to emphasise that Alexander's health may have been in general decline after years of heavy drinking and his suffering severe wounds (including one in India that nearly claimed his life). Furthermore, the anguish that Alexander felt after Hephaestion's death may have contributed to his declining health.[141]

Another possible cause of Alexander's death is an overdose of medication containing hellebore, which is deadly in large doses.[145][146]"

Wow, we are told that young Alexander died in Babylon,"in the palace of Nebuchadnezzar II, in Babylon at the age of 32.[130]"

So, there can be no conflict here, can there?

But, later we read these words!

"Alexander's body was placed in a gold anthropoid sarcophagus, which was in turn placed in a second gold casket.[147] According to Aelian, a seer called Aristander foretold that the land where Alexander was laid to rest "would be happy and unvanquishable forever".[148] Perhaps more likely, the successors may have seen possession of the body as a symbol of legitimacy (it was a royal prerogative to bury the previous king).[149] At any rate, Ptolemy stole the funeral cortege, and took it to Memphis.[147][148] His successor, Ptolemy II Philadelphus, transferred the sarcophagus to Alexandria, where it remained until at least Late Antiquity. Ptolemy IX Lathyros, one of the last successors of Ptolemy I, replaced Alexander's sarcophagus with a glass one so he could melt the original down for issues of his coinage.[150] Pompey, Julius Caesar and Augustus all visited the tomb in Alexandria, the latter allegedly accidentally knocking the nose off the body. Caligula was said to have taken Alexander's breastplate from the tomb for his own use. In c. AD 200, Emperor Septimius Severus closed Alexander's tomb to the public. His son and successor, Caracalla, was a great admirer of Alexander, and visited the tomb in his own reign. After this, details on the fate of the tomb are sketchy.[150]"

Please notice that Alexander's body was reportedly later brought to Egypt, and specifically to these words;

"At any rate, Ptolemy stole the funeral cortege, and took it to Memphis.[147][148] His successor, Ptolemy II Philadelphus, transferred the sarcophagus to Alexandria, where it remained until at least Late Antiquity."

And, afer reading all of my previous postings, one can recognize that the area around Memphis is also considered the area around Cairo, and the area around Cairo can also be considered to mostly be the modern limits of the old city of "Babylon", in Egypt! It is certainly not known just how historians/writers/churchmen, etc., of the past, and especially those of the Middle Ages, etc., actually referred to the area? Perhaps the use of the name "Babylon,in Egypt", in some ancient text,or account was mistakenly transposed to the "ancient Babylon" that supposedly existed in what is now modern Iraq?

Or perhaps he was actually in two Bablyons?

You be the judge!

Perhaps you should consider one possible cause of this death as mentioned above; "A 1998 article in the New England Journal of Medicine attributed his death to typhoid fever complicated by bowel perforation and ascending paralysis,[141] whereas another recent analysis has suggested pyrogenic spondylitis or meningitis as the cause.[142] Other illnesses could have also been the culprit, including acute pancreatitis or the West Nile virus.[143][144]"

Don't we know of at least two famous personages of the Crusader period who died of intestinal problems? At least one of the was due to a "surfeit of mullet!"

Edited by opuslola - 01-Feb-2011 at 15:42
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 14:55
If this is true,near the mountains of Ecbatana was residence of Alexander.Story tale says that.
http://www.bible-history.com/map_babylonian_captivity/map_of_the_deportation_of_judah_ecbatana.html
and Iran is hiding the secret of Babylonian tower of nations.
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Geography/ecbatana.htm
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 15:13
I believe Alexander destroyed this ziggurat.Easiest way to be "worshiped" by priests of new religion in conquered Empire ,like a God and new King, after there old King was killed.
http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterThree/TowerOfBabel.htm  

Edited by medenaywe - 02-Feb-2011 at 04:28
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 15:37
There is a river in the north of Iran with the name of "Babol", it has been mentioned in the ancient sources, the most famous city in the north of Iran has the same name, I don't know it relates to "Babel" or not, of course I don't think any Semitic people lived there, so the first part of the name couldn't mean "Gate".
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 15:47
Does anyone know the invasion route of Alexander, during his attack upon Egypt?

All I can find is his seige of Gaza!

From there his route seems to be through the area of Pelusium, etc.!
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 15:49
How far is this one from Ekbatana?Do not believe that real tower ,place where it was,distinguish a lot from
Ecbatana,horse walk of course?!.This tower was not the biggest maybe i believe,but effect was.Defeated army means land is mine,but religion on my side means i own your spirits also! 

Edited by medenaywe - 01-Feb-2011 at 15:52
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 16:04
Medenaywe, the site you mentioned above, I.e.; http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Geography/ecbatana.htm
Is most typical of a lot of so called "archaeological" reports, that is, it is full of words such as;
"probably", "suggests", usually interpreterted as", "and inference is drawn", "it is not probable", "Variously", "Scarcity", "alternative", "Points to!", etc.!

I don't know about you, but any report full of such words does not point me at an attitude of confidence in the reports?

It is mostly full of mere speculation!

This attitude is probably, a reaction to the possibility that the suppositions might well be over-turned by later examination?

As you can well understand, the excavations, and examinations of various "experts" is full of speculation, and covering of one's ass!

Edited by opuslola - 01-Feb-2011 at 16:07
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 16:16
Ecbatan is in the west of Iran, far from Babol, I still don't know for what reason you say the tower of Babel was located in Ecbatana?!
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