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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Phalanx
    Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 09:34

The Phalanx, hard manuverabilty, a straight line of pikeman and hoplites as they were called.

Now, how big IT was, and had it got it's groups as the legion has a cohors, manipulus and centurio

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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 16:13

There are quite a few variations of the phalanx, so it would help if you could list what type you are looking for(Macedonian Phalanx, Spartan Phalanx, etc.).

I'll go ahead and describe the Spartan Phalanx, as it is the one I can recall the most about:

Soldier Types

Hoplites:  Heavily armored infantrymen.  Armed witha hoplon and a spear.

Psiloi:  Soldiers with little to no armor.  Seved as in between rank skirmishers.

Soldier Classes

Helots:  The slave or serf class of Spartan.  Generally, Helots served as baggage carriers for the Spartiates, though it is also known that they also fought as the Psiloi mentioned above.  For example, in the Battle of Plataea, there was said to have been 35, 000 Helots fighting alongside their masters.

Perioikoi:  These were citizens of Laconia, that were called upon in times of need.  Their training was very similiar to that of most other Greek City-States'(they were trained as hoplites), not equalling the Spartiates' training.  Regardless, the Perioikoi served an important part in Spartan warfare, as they made up nearly half the army at times.

Spartiate:  A full citizen of Sparta.  These were the idolized troops that dedicated their whole life to serving their state through the military.  Of course, they were trained as hoplites.

Units

Demi-Phyle:  The smallest unit in the Spartan army, generally consisting of around 6 members.  The commander was called a Demiphylarch.

Phyle:  This was next in terms of size, the standard size being two demi-phyles.  This is considered to be the "building block" of the phalanx.  Commanded by a Phylarch.

Enomotia:  Next on the size scale is the Enomotia, which was usually three Phyles(in case you've gotten lost, that is around 36 men).  This would be the equivelant of the modern Company.  Commanded by a Enomotarch.

Pentekostys:  This consisted of 5 Enomotiai(180 men).  Was commanded by a Pentekoster.

Lochos:  Generally consisted of around 1, 000 soldiers, and is consider the equivelant of a modern Division though it wouldn't be as large as a Division.  Commanded by a Lochagos.

5 Lochos usually made up the army.



Edited by Lannes
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 03:33

Good Lannes :-) You forgot to mention that the Spartans (and all hoplites for that matter) were also armed with a sword. It was called Xyili (or Xyali in Doric) by the Spartans and Copis by others. It had a 60cm blade that was used mainly for slashing. It would be used when the spear would break (and the assistants would not have any more to provide to the frond line hoplites). It was basically a secondary weapon.

In classical times a Phalanx would be deployed in 16 rows wide, and 8 rows deep.

Xenophon, who had also been an officer, tells us about a different structure. Now the average row was 12 man deep, while only two of these rows were needed to form an enomotia. Two enomotiai formed a pentekostis, two pentekosteis formed a lochos, while four lochois formed a mora, or regiment, under the command of a p(t)olemarch. An army consisted of 6 morae. The reduction of the Spartan population did decrease the total strength of the Spartan army, but not the strength of a mora (500, 600, or 900 men) as this depended on the age of the hoplites who were used.

The enomotiai marched behind eachother in a big row. Before the battle the last troops of each enemotia positioned themselves left behind their leader to form a phalanx of four columns, in total 16 rows wide, and 8 rows deep. A space of two metres was maintained between the columns, but on the order 'close the rows' the last troops walked to the left front to close gaps in the front row. Now the phalanx was in a closed formation and ready for the battle.

The Thebans were able to defeat the Spartans by deploying a wing that was 50 men deep.

When it comes to manouverability, the phalanx relied in one Hoplitae covering his man to the left with his Hoplon shield. That means that they had to keep their shieds interlocked and that their weak side was the right one. Their sides were usually covered by "Psiloi" scirmishers or (at later stages) by cavalry.

 

 

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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 06:44
50 men deep? Then they must have been outflanked very easily wouldn't they?


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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 07:17

Very good point fastpawn!

But the trick was that they attacked the strong far right wing of the Spartans. The Theban left was 50 men deep and started advancing first, the center started later and their right wing last. By the time their left wing was crushing the 12 men deep Spartan right the rest of the Theban army had not yet encountered the enemy. So the Spartans could not at the time take men from their center of left because the opposing Theban were close enough to threaten them but far enough to be attacked. The technique was revolutionary and it's called "denying you weak part" (or something like it) and was used by many commanders in the future, Napoleon being one of them....

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/371leuctra.html



Edited by Yiannis
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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 08:21
Oic,

the dangers of a homogenous army...

anyway, i still don't like of using such a deep formation, because it means i have like 38 rows under utilized.

But couldn't the spartans see the tactics of the theban army from afar? Why didn't they respond by moving their centre+left earlier?
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 15:40

Originally posted by fastspawn

anyway, i still don't like of using such a deep formation, because it means i have like 38 rows under utilized.

Well, the soldiers that weren't in the front doing the fighting were doing the important job of pushing their comrades forward.  The phalanx had to create a constant push to really be able to slice its way through an enemy formation, or to have the massive amount of staying power that it did.



Edited by Lannes
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  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 16:36

Originally posted by fastspawn



But couldn't the spartans see the tactics of the theban army from afar? Why didn't they respond by moving their centre+left earlier?

At this point there was no articulation of the phalanx.  The men were not trained to maneuver, as if the line was broken, the battle was lost.  So they were only to move directly forward.

The Spartans by the Battle of Leuctra in 371 BC did have a primitive flanking mechanism. The right wing faced right and marched, then faced left and marched to even with the enemy's line and then faced left again and advanced to the attack.

The Thebans by this battle had evolved their own tactic of deepening their left.  They aditionally created the Sacred Band, a group of 300 with the ability for independent maneuver.

At the battle, here is what happened:

Originally posted by The Art of War in the Western World

Each knew the other's method, the Spartans expecting the deep Theban formation and the Thebans anticipating the Spartan's flank-attack march.  The Spartans relied on their standard maneuver, but Epaminondas, the brilliant Tehban commander, had teh plans and the skill to counter it.  He had formed most of his hoplites fifty deep, creating a solid mass with a depth half its breadth.  With these he faced the Spartan right, his right and the Spartan left both hanging back and having little participation in the battle.  In reserve, behind his main hoplite force, he kept the elite Sacred Band...

When the Spartans began the execution of their march to the richt and formation at right angles to the Theban line, Epaminondas realized what they were doing.  He then led his deep hoplite array diagonally across the field to attack the extreme right of the Spartan line, and, from the Sacred Band's position in the rear of his phalanx, Epaminodas sent these picked men on a seperate maneuver on the field.  The Sacred Band carried out its preplanned, independent action to assail the Spartan detachment lining up to prepare its attack on the flank of the Theban hoplites.  The combined effect of these maneuvers overwelmed much of the Spartan right, inflicting great casualtis and winning the battle in which the Spartan king died.

The Art of War in the Westerm World, by Archer Jones (a really good book!)

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  Quote Rebelsoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 03:11

One tiny detail: Many military historians are evaluating differently the true strength of Epameinondas "skewed phalanx": they assume that after the initial impact (with all the weight of the 50 rows) elements of the "Ram" (namely: rows from the back and middle of the formation) would actually move sideways and engage the enemy formation in flanking action, while the latter was engaged with the first lines of the "ram".

I think that image makes more sense and would utilize to the greatest extend the enormous depth of the phalanx.

BTW the greatest admirers of Epameinondas and his military formation, are Carl Gustav of Sweden and Friedrich of Prussen, as well as Napoleon. The first two based a great deal of their success in adopting that tactic to the 18th century warfare.

 

BTW 2: Seems funny we are talking only about the hoplite phalanx since, militarly speaking, the macedonian phalanx was more succesful in the field.

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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 13:12
what is the difference between a hoplite phalanx and a macedonian phalanx apart from the longer pikes?
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 15:47

Originally posted by fastspawn

what is the difference between a hoplite phalanx and a macedonian phalanx apart from the longer pikes?

The Macedonian phalanx no longer used heavely armored hoplites, instead they switched to lightly armored phalangites to form the ranks.  The theory was that the long length of their sarissa pikes(sometimes reaching 21 feet long) should prevent enemies from getting close enough in melee combat to really do damage to the phalangites, so armor wasn't as important(troops in the first five ranks were generally armed the heaviest, but still not nearly as much as the hoplites had been).



Edited by Lannes
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 03:37

Exactly as Lannes said with one clarification: Fallangites (unlike the Hoplites) needed both hands to handle the long pike. So there was ho hand available to carry the shield. Instead they would hand the shield (a smaller, lighter version) on their body.

General Iphicrates of Athens was the first one to form something close to that when he stripped Hoplites from their heavy armor, used linen instead of bronze breastplates and lengthened their spears. His force managed to defeat a Spartan contigent near Korinth and everyone started to pay attention to this new kind of Hoplite.

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  Quote BattleGlory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 16:40

BTW the greatest admirers of Epameinondas and his military formation, are Carl Gustav of Sweden and Friedrich of Prussen, as well as Napoleon. The first two based a great deal of their success in adopting that tactic to the 18th century warfare.

You forget Alexander and Philip! haha

troops in the first five ranks were generally armed the heaviest, but still not nearly as much as the hoplites had been)

Actually, those in the back tended to be more heavily armored because they were more rich and influential and could afford armor and not have to be put in the front.

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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 01:26
Who protected the Macedonian Left Flank?

Since their pike was so long, it is bound to be the case that they are slow in maneuvering left (Assume they hold pike on right).

Since they hold pike with both hands, that would mean they don't have a defensive weapon, or they cannot wield it without breaking formation.

So how did the macedonians defend their weak left?
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 07:32

Originally posted by fastspawn

Who protected the Macedonian Left Flank?

The left flank was usually protected by allied cavalry(usually supplied by the Thessalians) that fought in a defensive rhomboid formation.

Since they hold pike with both hands, that would mean they don't have a defensive weapon, or they cannot wield it without breaking formation.

Well, phalangites also had a dagger, but that was really nothing that proved effective on the battlefield, and was more or less an afterthought.  Really, if an army managed to get in very close melee combat with the phalngites, then the phalanx would turn into a butchering house, as was the case at Pydna.

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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 13:20
could you tell me about the battle of pydna?
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 16:13

Originally posted by fastspawn

could you tell me about the battle of pydna?

Sure.

Background- Battle took place in 168 BC, during the Third Macedonian War.  Philip V, who had been decisively defeated by the Romans at Cynoscephalae in 197 BC, was forced into 'friendly' terms with the Romans.  Though Philip remained on friendly terms with the Romans through the Seleucid Wars, it was clear he was sitting very uneasily.  In 180BC, Philip had his Pro-Roman son, Demetrius, executed(largely becuase of Perseus' doings), making Perseus the heir to the throne.  Perseus became King of Macedon in 179BC(Philip and his son were part of the Antigonid Dynasty).  Perseus did things to concern Rome, and in 171BC, Rome declared war on Macedonia.(The Roman Commander was the Consul, Aemilius Paulas.)

The Battle- The armies drew themselves up in their standard fashions.  The Roman formation:  Two Legions in the centre , with ala infantry flanking them, and the cavalry on the wings(the right wing cavalry had been suplemented with 22 elephants).  The Macedonian lineup:  The phalanx was in the centre of the formation(the 3, 000 Macedonian lite guards forming the left of the phalanx), with lighter peltasts, Thracian infantry,  and ercenaries supporting the flanks of the phalanx.  The cavalry was unevenly split between the two wings of the formation- Perseus and his heavy cavalry were positioned(he would've been with his lite Sacred Squadron), as well as the Thracian Odrysen cavalry.

The phalanx advanvced, engaging the Roman infantry at  around 3PM, and in the beginning, psuhed the Romans back.  Paulas was noted to have been amazed at the impenetrable wall of pikes coming at him.  As the phalanx advanced, they ran into the foothills on the field, and gaps began to form in their formation. Paulas saw his oppurtunity, and order his unbeleivably flexible maniples into the gaps.  In the close quarter combat that ensued, the Romans' shields and swords were too much for the phalangites, as for close quarters combats, they were armed only with the dagger that I mentioned in one of my above posts.

Seeing that the battle was lost, Perseus and his lite cavalry retreated(Polybius tells us that they never even engaged in the combat).  He had lost his army though.  25, 000 of his men were killed in that slaughter house of a phalanx.

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  Quote Rebelsoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 07:08

As we have discussed in the past, the macedonian phalanx was not an all-purpose, stand alone formation. It was an integral part of a complex, delicate but also extremely effective combined arms system.

The sarissa phalanx was the backbone of that system, but - as described by a military historian - "it was only the anvil of Alexander's army - the hammer was the heteroi cavalry". Even that description leaves out the numerous skirmishers, the regular hoplites, the elite pezeteroi who operated like regular hoplites, the medium cavalry that guarded the flanks and all other elements that operated inside the bounds of the macedonian phalanx.

BTW it wasn't really "Alexander's system" but Philipos'. Alexander just led it with unparalleled perfection.

 

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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 15:33
Originally posted by Rebelsoul

As we have discussed in the past, the macedonian phalanx was not an all-purpose, stand alone formation. It was an integral part of a complex, delicate but also extremely effective combined arms system.

Which is the predominant reason why the Macedonians of the 2nd Century BC couldn't defeat the Manipular Legion.  The Macedonian phalanx was only ever ment to provide steady pressure on the enemy(letting the cavalry deliver the decisive blows to the enemy), but these later day Macedonian armies no longer possesed enough capable horsemen to form a force of cavalry as Alexandros III did, and as a result, came more and more to rely on the phalanx as earlier armies of the region had done.



Edited by Lannes
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  Quote Rebelsoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 01:52

Sure Lannes, you are very right on that. I think it was the drop of societal status of the Macedonian nobility, and the degredation of the whole hellenistic world by that time, that led to the demise of the once all-powerfull macedonian cavalry (and Thessaly had the same problems as well...).

My take is that social and political reasons are much more vital to the collapse of the Hellenistic world and it's submission to the Romans. The Greek polis was outdated, the constant warring of the hellenistic world has depleted the Greek resources and the bad relations between most of the Greek/hellenistic kingdoms, city-states and confederations, was heavily used by the Romans (the masters of "divide and conquer" many centuries before the British) to win over the Greeks and overrun the place.

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